Page 1 of 17 1211 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 566

Thread: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Reedville, OR
    Posts
    8,521

    Default Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    That picture is about as bad as it gets, optically. Behaviorally, pretty bad, too.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    82,359

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    bummer
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Reedville, OR
    Posts
    8,521

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    If it were just the picture, he might be able to apologize for sophmoric and inappropriate "humor".

    But the allegations of trying to force a backstage kiss won't wash.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    13,530

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    "Franken had written some skits for the show and brought props and costumes to go along with them. Like many USO shows before and since, the skits were full of sexual innuendo geared toward a young, male audience."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain lakes of Vermont
    Posts
    9,716

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    In the present atmosphere of these sorts of allegations, just about every male public figure in the country must be sweating bullets trying to remember every encounter with a woman in their past and whether it could be used against them.
    I'm uncomfortable with a mere allegation instantly destroying a man. I didn't instantly condemn Roy Moore until it become obvious that the allegations were probably true. I'll withhold judgement on Al Franken for a while.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    1,201

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    "became obvious that the allegations were probably true"....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21,861

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    I suspect it was very unfortunate humor that will now bite him in the @ss. Given the vest and all the rest of the gear, it's hard to call it sexual or gratifying, but he's in a world of trouble now.

    The fact that this is compared to the actions of Weinstein, Moore and the others is a measure of how this sort of thing starts out well and runs away from reality.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Pleasant Valley NS Canada
    Posts
    11,306

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    I wonder if this guy will worry in ten or twenty years if this girl will go public with the time he sexually assaulted her?

    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    3,970

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Sad but not surprising.... and the fact that it's not surprising is sad too!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sharon, MA
    Posts
    17,482

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I suspect it was very unfortunate humor that will now bite him in the @ss. Given the vest and all the rest of the gear, it's hard to call it sexual or gratifying, but he's in a world of trouble now.
    I'm sure that the Republicans will try to exploit this to the maximum... understandably.

    I'm wondering a bit, though. There's a huge difference between making a visual joke which was clearly in bad taste, and trying to intentionally harass or abuse a woman. The victim's testimony about the kiss is more damaging... but we'll have to wait and see if there's any pattern to this.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sequim, Washington
    Posts
    4,851

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Sad but not surprising.... and the fact that it's not surprising is sad too!
    We have alienated ourselves in so many ways for so many things that normal actions blur with inappropriate actions.

    But sexually pursuing a 14-15 YO Girl at 30 years of age versus a dumb thing with no physical contact, photographed at a USO Tour, are opposite ends of the spectrum.
    PaulF

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    8,654

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    He's toast.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    18,793

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    We're moving towards 'zero tolerance' for sex/sexual attraction. Last man (or asexual stand-in) standing.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sequim, Washington
    Posts
    4,851

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    We're moving towards 'zero tolerance' for sex/sexual attraction. Last man (or asexual stand-in) standing.
    I've had women fondle me under a table in a restaurant at Bars etc. Very rarely did it make me feel threatened or frightened..but a few times it did.
    PaulF

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Pleasant Valley NS Canada
    Posts
    11,306

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Upon close examination of the photo, I am of the opinion that Mr. Franken is not actually touching the woman.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sharon, MA
    Posts
    17,482

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    Upon close examination of the photo, I am of the opinion that Mr. Franken is not actually touching the woman.
    I don't think the photo means much of ANYTHING, other than a bit of crude humor, in bad taste, which was inadvisable.

    Franken's REAL problem is the testimony of the woman, about the kiss.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    3,970

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    I'm not sure how good of a grope you can give through a ballistic vest!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    17,842

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    I don't think the photo means much of ANYTHING, other than a bit of crude humor, in bad taste, which was inadvisable.

    Franken's REAL problem is the testimony of the woman, about the kiss.
    No mention of tic-tacs?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Douglasville, Ga
    Posts
    4,233

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    To his credit he is asking for it to be investigated and he apologized.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...ion-of-himself
    Tom

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    1,391

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    The picture is just an easy visual aid. the real problem was a forcible kiss. I will not make excuses for someone forcing themself on a woman like that, even if I like Al a whole lot.

    Time for dems to show they handle these things properly and differently than the other side.

    Roy Moore must think this a gift from heaven.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    1,201

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    picture is just crude humor. i don't see the big deal. don't know what to say about forcible kisses from years ago.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21,861

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    I'm sure that the Republicans will try to exploit this to the maximum... understandably.
    No question about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    I'm wondering a bit, though. There's a huge difference between making a visual joke which was clearly in bad taste, and trying to intentionally harass or abuse a woman. The victim's testimony about the kiss is more damaging... but we'll have to wait and see if there's any pattern to this.
    I think that even if it becomes recognized that it was just a joke, he will have to admit that he probably undermined the young woman's hard work to get recognized by the men. She probably had to work twice as hard and he didn't do her any favors.

    Then again, he was a comedian still learning the ropes of being a Senator, or was it before he was a Senator? It's a very human mistake that will be blown out of proportion by some very inhuman pundits.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    32,502

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    I don't think the photo means much of ANYTHING, other than a bit of crude humor, in bad taste, which was inadvisable.

    Franken's REAL problem is the testimony of the woman, about the kiss.
    I agree.

    And y'know, maybe Franken has to be impaled on this sword, in order for the needed changes to occur, I dunno. There are a whole lot of movies and TV shows and comedy sketches and etc. which were once funny, which suddenly can't be. Objectively, is the photo anything other than the kind of humour we'd expect from Adam Sandler, or the late Robin Williams? John Belushi? Was it OK that Franken posed with his hands in that position, whether or not he was actually even touching the woman's flak jacket? Nope - not if she really was asleep. Even as a gag. If she was awake and it was a posed picture - with her cooperation? Probably not in today's climate even then, even with "consent." The wind's blowing from an entirely different point of the compass now than 11 years ago.

    The biggest problem is, I think, the account of the kiss. And yeah, I believe the woman - I suspect it happened. I'm sure that she objected, that Franken imposed himself, and she felt violated. She was violated, eh? It used to be euphemized as "stealing a kiss," and I suspect that most of the women whose kisses were "stolen" felt much like this woman did - but had no way to talk about it.

    All that said, it's important to understand where the changes are actually going to be, in our new and more respectful society. Ms. Tweeden was co-presenting on those tours with Franken because the young male audience of soldiers liked looking at her. She'd recently modelled for Playboy and Maxim - the young men were familiar with her photo oeuvre, so to speak, and had the job because of how she looked standing on stage - not because of how smart or talented she was. That is, her self-created "brand" was to be an object of sexual fantasy and desire - the ultra-model of sexual fantasy and desire who introduced the lesser versions played by the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. Projecting an aura of provocative and alluring availability is exactly why she was paid.

    Now, it was a role. She was acting a part, and there's no excuse for taking the fantasy literally.

    But it does raise larger questions about the acceptability of women being presented in those roles, indulging and inflaming those fantasies. Even women who, like Ms. Tweeden, chose to play those parts and were presumably paid well enough for it. If folks are now clear that the fantasy of "stealing a kiss" from a beautiful woman and having her immediately reciprocate is one that folks can't be permitted to indulge ... then perhaps we ought to stop indulging it. Perhaps we ought to not only penalize the men for over-stepping that line, but also stop stuffing their brains with more and more material intended exactly to stoke those fantasies - usually for marketing advantages. So that someone can make money off those fantasies.

    I feel kinda like it's a similar dynamic to firearms culture. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." But with fewer opportunities to fetishize and indulge fantasies about guns, and with some common sense societal rules about how they ought to be viewed, there's less opportunity for folks to go off the edge. Even though it's always the bad guy's fault when he shoots someone.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    17,842

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    If this was guns kissing people, we would have an investigation.

    But killing? It just too soon.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Reedville, OR
    Posts
    8,521

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    I don't think grabbing or pretending to grab a woman's breasts while she sleeps, whether to get a laugh from your friends or any other reason, has been appropriate adult behavior in several generations, at least. Frat parties? Sure. That's why I never went to a second one.

    I reckon you could go back 500 years and find educated men who would frown on such disrespect for a fair maiden.

    The idea that this photo op was just "inadvisable" takes my breath away. It's a violation, not dignified of any grown man, let alone one pretending to leadership.

    Hang 'im high.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    17,842

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    It is hard to find a perfect human...

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Too far inland.
    Posts
    7,722

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    THIS is whats going to drain the swamp.

    I don't particularly have a problem with that, so long as we're a lot more careful about the replacements than we are about the removals.
    A boatless inlander, searching for the meaning of life-aground.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    8,862

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Franklin is screwed and he destroyed what credibility he could for supposed good guy politicians. I am so disappointed in this news.

    I don't know about you men - I never kissed a women that didn't want me to kiss her nor have I ever touch a woman without implied permission. There is no excuse for Franklin. His sexual humor is a blind for an underlining motive. No body should be laughing at predatory sexual behavior is which can not it be justified. As a mature man, Franklin brings shame to good men who he hides among. I am done with Al or his moral/ethical positions.

    Where did all the gentlemen go?
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    28,767

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    It is hard to find a perfect human...
    Hell with my past I couldn't run for dog catcher.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    25,593

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    I'm sure that the Republicans will try to exploit this to the maximum... understandably.
    After they've defended moore, that would be the height of hypocrisy. Oh wait, they're republicans.

    LMAO
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    8,862

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    I don't think grabbing or pretending to grab a woman's breasts while she sleeps, whether to get a laugh from your friends or any other reason, has been appropriate adult behavior in several generations, at least. Frat parties? Sure. That's why I never went to a second one.

    I reckon you could go back 500 years and find educated men who would frown on such disrespect for a fair maiden.

    The idea that this photo op was just "inadvisable" takes my breath away. It's a violation, not dignified of any grown man, let alone one pretending to leadership.

    Hang 'im high.
    hear hear!
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,436

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Its Adam and Eve's fault, I tell you.
    WBF=DNC

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    3,970

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Who can forget Chester the Molester?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_the_Molester

    I'm not making an excuse just pointing out the American culture of the recent past.

    I mean really.... this country never even passed the Equal Rights Amendment!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sequim, Washington
    Posts
    4,851

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    I don't think grabbing or pretending to grab a woman's breasts while she sleeps, whether to get a laugh from your friends or any other reason, has been appropriate adult behavior in several generations, at least. Frat parties? Sure. That's why I never went to a second one.

    I reckon you could go back 500 years and find educated men who would frown on such disrespect for a fair maiden.

    The idea that this photo op was just "inadvisable" takes my breath away. It's a violation, not dignified of any grown man, let alone one pretending to leadership.

    Hang 'im high.
    There are very few humans who can achieve the High standards that are becoming the "requirement" for any leadership over an entire lifetime. And those who can are...odd.
    PaulF

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    3,970

    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    There are very few humans who can achieve the High standards that are becoming the "requirement" for any leadership over an entire lifetime. And those who can are...odd.
    Donnie Two-Scoops blows that statement out of the water!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •