Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: 1908 cycle car racing engine

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    81,829

    Default 1908 cycle car racing engine

    watercooled
    single cylinder
    four valve desmodromic valve train
    dual ignition with four spark plugs
    intake charge was pre-compressed and entered the intake tract via a sleeve valve

    Behold!





    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hamilton New Zealand
    Posts
    3,971

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    Lots of good ideas in there, a bit ahead of its time. I wonder what it put out?

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Northern NY
    Posts
    1,704

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    More sophisticated than a NASCAR ENGINE -- but then, what isn't?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    63,718

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    Cunning as ...... especially for 109 years ago!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Livin' in Oz
    Posts
    53,065

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    Quote Originally Posted by moTthediesel View Post
    More sophisticated than a NASCAR ENGINE -- but then, what isn't?


    What's this pre-compressed intake charge?

    1400cc in a single, eh?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Livin' in Oz
    Posts
    53,065

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    I found the following, but can't get the photos. Not sure if that's just a local issue, or whether they've gone. 100mm bore x 180mm stroke. Wow.

    Ariès:
    single-cylinder, 100/180 mm, overhead camshaft, four vertical valves, four plugs, single disc clutch, 4-speed gearbox, wheelbase 225 cm, track 123 cm, tires 810x90.

    No 14 (weight 643 kg) - Meaux de Saint-Marc, mechanic Guérin:
    www.artonline.nl/heritage-specials/catalogs/aries/aries_14_1908_voitur-099-lr.jpg

    No. 39 (weight 632 kg) - Perrot - mechanic Margoutte:
    www.artonline.nl/heritage-specials/catalogs/aries/aries_32_1908_voitur-101-lr.jpg
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    8,477

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    What is "desmodromic"?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    81,829

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    What is "desmodromic"?
    no valve spring, there is a second cam follower which closes the valve. . .

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,489

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    What in the world is that gear at the base of the cylinder head? It looks like it engages those little teeth machined on the cam drive shaft, but that doesn't seem possible. The cylinder head doesn't turn? No, it can't. What's that mechanism between the cylinder head and the crankcase? Something's going on there I don't understand.

    That really looks like an exercise to see how many moving parts you can cram into a single-cylinder engine. Complex isn't necessarily sophisticated, and rarely better.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    81,829

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    it looks like the cam/distributer gear shaft is driven off the crank case and that the large horizontal gear at the base of the cylinder is driven by the cam drive

    oil pump and/or water drive pump perhaps? does it drive a dynamo generator for the spark? some type of pto?

    the engine is supercharged, i bet the large ring drives the supercharger
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 11-15-2017 at 11:00 AM.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    81,829

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    What's this pre-compressed intake charge?
    the engine is supercharged
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Aquitaine
    Posts
    708

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    What in the world is that gear at the base of the cylinder head? It looks like it engages those little teeth machined on the cam drive shaft, but that doesn't seem possible. The cylinder head doesn't turn? No, it can't. What's that mechanism between the cylinder head and the crankcase? Something's going on there I don't understand.
    .
    The first post mentions a 'sleeve valve' to charge the cylinder, so the ring gear might be about that. If so, the four valves are all exhaust. Ignition looks to be off that extension of the cam shaft. Little milled nuts to secure cables. The valving is not dissimilar to the old Detroit Diesels, except they used springs.

    BTW; Paul. Nice find.

    Just noticed: The gear reduction for the cam appears to be in the head. So the shaft is at crankshaft speed, which makes the sleeve valve drive less likely, but not impossible with multi ports.
    Last edited by Andrew2; 11-15-2017 at 01:28 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Deepest Darkest Wales
    Posts
    18,448

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    What is "desmodromic"?
    Suitable for use in the "Desmodromes" where the racing was particularly fierce - the use of these declined after the first world war and died out altogether following the great depression - though Mercedes continued with the valvegear as late as 1955.

    Incidentally, if anyone knows of any existing remains of a desmodrome I'd like some photographs.
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,489

    Default Re: 1908 cycle car racing engine

    Ducati currently uses them on production bikes. (link) Mr. Newt's bullshi!tting you about 'desmodromes'.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •