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Thread: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

  1. #36
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    So just where are all those IS fighters going that the US left alone? When you invade another country illegally on the pretension of annihilating all of IS, something really stinks. No boots on the ground in Syria? How do you feel about 9-13 bases being reported inside of Syria? Protecting the retreating ISIS convey for another day?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/...s_dirty_secret

    Im sure none of them will be jumping on planes to the US, but its only a matter of time before they are in Europe....maybe that is part of the greater plan.
    I'm sure your buddies Assad and Putin have everything under control.

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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I'm sure your buddies Assad and Putin have everything under control.
    Or as I like to call them, Asshat and Poutine.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    So just where are all those IS fighters going that the US left alone? When you invade another country illegally on the pretension of annihilating all of IS, something really stinks. No boots on the ground in Syria? How do you feel about 9-13 bases being reported inside of Syria? Protecting the retreating ISIS convey for another day?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/...s_dirty_secret

    Im sure none of them will be jumping on planes to the US, but its only a matter of time before they are in Europe....maybe that is part of the greater plan.
    Iv'e been waiting to see when this would pop up on a thread here. Well done skaraborgcraft!
    A convoy of soldiers, their family members, truck loads of ammo and weapons including mortars........ sinister deals have been made!
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  4. #39
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    There will be some on both sides that want the conflict to continue. For their own purposes, Assad for one.

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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    To me it looks as though there was no real determination to keep the lid on this escape deal long term........ Just long enough for IS personnel do dissipate, to dissolve into the crowd. I wonder if and how they will keep an eye on individuals or groups? Will there be a spate of shootings in the back lanes of various towns and cities they end up in? Or will they be allowed to travel to the Phillapines and Indonesia to get things moving in the Asian sphere? ........So we can all sit back sip on our stubbies of beer and watch it all unravel.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  6. #41
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I'm sure your buddies Assad and Putin have everything under control.
    It would seem to be a normal reaction that if anything at all goes wrong, blame Russia. Thats not even a half good attempt at deflection. Raqqa has been surrounded by US coalition. Not that US forces should have been there anyway, but Mattis said US troops were there "to annihilate IS"........putting them on buses and letting them leave is, i would have thought, somewhat of an insult to the families of US service personnel that have been killed over there, would you not agree?

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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    It would seem to be a normal reaction that if anything at all goes wrong, blame Russia. Thats not even a half good attempt at deflection. Raqqa has been surrounded by US coalition. Not that US forces should have been there anyway, but Mattis said US troops were there "to annihilate IS"........putting them on buses and letting them leave is, i would have thought, somewhat of an insult to the families of US service personnel that have been killed over there, would you not agree?
    I'm sure you are willing to see the civilians they were using as shields die as well. Americans tend to be sensitive about things like that. But you knew that was why this happened, why play dumb?

  8. #43
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I'm sure you are willing to see the civilians they were using as shields die as well. Americans tend to be sensitive about things like that. But you knew that was why this happened, why play dumb?
    If thats an attempt at humour, thats pretty dark considering the amount of non combatants killed by US airstrikes. At least in Iraq you put the "enemy" in a prison. Now your betters decided that although they illegally entered Syria for the protection of the US, they decided to let them go. I know Mattis is getting old, and that he "mistakenly" said the UN gave permission for the US to be inside Syria, but dumb does not come close......

    EDIT: Who was it that said "we do not negotiate with terrorists..." ?
    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 11-15-2017 at 02:20 PM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    So just where are all those IS fighters going that the US left alone? When you invade another country illegally on the pretension of annihilating all of IS, something really stinks. No boots on the ground in Syria? How do you feel about 9-13 bases being reported inside of Syria? Protecting the retreating ISIS convey for another day?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/...s_dirty_secret

    Im sure none of them will be jumping on planes to the US, but its only a matter of time before they are in Europe....maybe that is part of the greater plan.
    Seems to me the general threat of militant Salafi jihadists won't change with a negotiated surrender and withdrawal of a few hundred fighters and 1000's of dependants from Raqaa. The reservoir of fighters and ideology is deep. I agree the US could give a flying duck about the consequences of its actions.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    If thats an attempt at humour, thats pretty dark considering the amount of non combatants killed by US airstrikes. At least in Iraq you put the "enemy" in a prison. Now your betters decided that although they illegally entered Syria for the protection of the US, they decided to let them go. I know Mattis is getting old, and that he "mistakenly" said the UN gave permission for the US to be inside Syria, but dumb does not come close......

    EDIT: Who was it that said "we do not negotiate with terrorists..." ?
    Do you think that for the sake of logical consistency we should annihilate the civilians ISIS was using as shields? If so, you're not much of a human being. As to my betters, I do not acknowledge the existence of any such celestial beings. I retain the right to disagree with my government.

    Yes, I know, Putin would have annihilated the civilians with the terrorists. We all know the Russians used dumb bombs on population centers, while the Americans targeted more precisely with smart bombs to limit civilian casualties. Partly that's because Putin is trying to be a global power with the economic of a country with a GDP the size of Italy's, and ran out of smart bombs, but partly it reflects different priorities. Even with an idiot like Trump in office, Americans wage war in a less inhumane manner than you have become accustomed to by watching Russia's foreign adventures. But then, you are afraid to criticize Putin, and I don't blame you for that.

    It surprises me that you do not know who said "we do not negotiate with terrorists." Is your Google broken? I'll give you a clue: It was a hypocrite who negotiated with both Iran and the Nicaraguan Contras. It was only one of the untrue things he said while in office. I regarded him then and now as a man whose policies were harmful to my nation and the world. See how nice it is to be able to say what you think about your leaders?

  11. #46
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Do you think that for the sake of logical consistency we should annihilate the civilians ISIS was using as shields? If so, you're not much of a human being. As to my betters, I do not acknowledge the existence of any such celestial beings. I retain the right to disagree with my government.

    Yes, I know, Putin would have annihilated the civilians with the terrorists. We all know the Russians used dumb bombs on population centers, while the Americans targeted more precisely with smart bombs to limit civilian casualties. Partly that's because Putin is trying to be a global power with the economic of a country with a GDP the size of Italy's, and ran out of smart bombs, but partly it reflects different priorities. Even with an idiot like Trump in office, Americans wage war in a less inhumane manner than you have become accustomed to by watching Russia's foreign adventures. But then, you are afraid to criticize Putin, and I don't blame you for that.

    It surprises me that you do not know who said "we do not negotiate with terrorists." Is your Google broken? I'll give you a clue: It was a hypocrite who negotiated with both Iran and the Nicaraguan Contras. It was only one of the untrue things he said while in office. I regarded him then and now as a man whose policies were harmful to my nation and the world. See how nice it is to be able to say what you think about your leaders?
    You asked me if i was being dumb, should i ask the same of you? Its hard to take you seriously, unless you can defend your governments use of depleted uranium and phospher on civilians. Did i suggest anywhere Raqqa should have been turned into dust along with everyone there? Why was it so impossible for the worlds greatest military to not stop a bus convey in the middle of nowhere, and seperate the fighters from the woman and children? Too difficult?
    As for saying what i like about "leaders", i could say that Theresa May is rather clueless (or just does not give a toss), about many in the UK and how they live; and the appointment of a non experienced defence secretary, amid ongoing sex scandel allegations in parliment, is pretty pathetic.What with an embarrassing Boris Johnson, and arms sales to Saudi resulting in civilian deaths in Yemen that no one seems to want to talk about due to the money rolling in. Bunch of parasites sucking of tax payers whilst trying hard to enrich themselves. Thats my opinion anyway......

    EDIT: And if you feel the need to talk about "smart" bombs to avoid civilian casualties, following your own logic, all those markets, wedding parties, funerals and family gatherings must have been targeted purposely? Yeah, dont tell me, bad intelligence from one of your allies......ooops.
    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 11-16-2017 at 12:20 PM.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    You asked me if i was being dumb, should i ask the same of you? Its hard to take you seriously, unless you can defend your governments use of depleted uranium and phospher on civilians. Did i suggest anywhere Raqqa should have been turned into dust along with everyone there? Why was it so impossible for the worlds greatest military to not stop a bus convey in the middle of nowhere, and seperate the fighters from the woman and children? Too difficult?
    As for saying what i like about "leaders", i could say that Theresa May is rather clueless (or just does not give a toss), about many in the UK and how they live; and the appointment of a non experienced defence secretary, amid ongoing sex scandel allegations in parliment, is pretty pathetic.What with an embarrassing Boris Johnson, and arms sales to Saudi resulting in civilian deaths in Yemen that no one seems to want to talk about due to the money rolling in. Bunch of parasites sucking of tax payers whilst trying hard to enrich themselves. Thats my opinion anyway......

    EDIT: And if you feel the need to talk about "smart" bombs to avoid civilian casualties, following your own logic, all those markets, wedding parties, funerals and family gatherings must have been targeted purposely? Yeah, dont tell me, bad intelligence from one of your allies......ooops.
    I don't defend any actions of my government of which I do not approve. As to depleted uranium, that is used in anti-tank rounds, have you any evidence of it being used against civilians?

    In any case, those digressions are just attempts to change the subject.

    You seem to suggest that we should have negotiated that the ISIS fighters should leave the civilians behind and safe on condition that we let them escape, then break our word and kill them. This would have made it impossible to negotiate for the safety of civilians in the future. You really didn't think that through, did you?

    By the way, I didn't ask if you were being dumb, I asked if you were playing dumb. The question was about your intentions, not your intelligence, which I don't doubt. The question "why play dumb?" indicates that you are pretending not to understand that which you do understand.

    Your inability to criticize Putin is noted.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I don't defend any actions of my government of which I do not approve. As to depleted uranium, that is used in anti-tank rounds, have you any evidence of it being used against civilians?

    In any case, those digressions are just attempts to change the subject.

    You seem to suggest that we should have negotiated that the ISIS fighters should leave the civilians behind and safe on condition that we let them escape, then break our word and kill them. This would have made it impossible to negotiate for the safety of civilians in the future. You really didn't think that through, did you?

    By the way, I didn't ask if you were being dumb, I asked if you were playing dumb. The question was about your intentions, not your intelligence, which I don't doubt. The question "why play dumb?" indicates that you are pretending not to understand that which you do understand.

    Your inability to criticize Putin is noted.

    You suggest that i try to change the subject, yet you quote me as suggesting that people should be killed, and suggest i didnt think things through. Thats not what i was saying at all. Not everyone sees killing as the answer to problems, and it might have been possible to avoid.......but thats a situation past now. Your military was happy to let a bunch of armed terrorists on their way, just like they did in Libya, you can see how doing that greatly improved living standards in that country.
    So you are suggesting that the US did a deal with known terrorists......is that not a crime, or only when other, non-ally, countries do it? I know its so easy to be dis-connected, being on that continent far,far away from all the troubles, i wonder if your attitude would be the same if it was happening somewhat closer to your home on the same land mass?

    EDIT: Your so called freedom to critizize your government may not quite be as liberal as you wish to believe. A US citizen has recently had his Facebook posts deleted and account frozen for 3 days, for posting a list of verified false flag attacks. It might have been that he had 5,000 "friends" and that was a post that would quickly get out there. So if you find someone saying something you find hard to believe because you have not read it in your own press, just take a moment to think that some facts are constantly being swept under the carpet. Unfortunately, you do appear to have been completely taken in by negative Russia-bashing.
    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 11-17-2017 at 04:57 AM.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    You suggest that i try to change the subject, yet you quote me as suggesting that people should be killed, and suggest i didnt think things through. Thats not what i was saying at all. Not everyone sees killing as the answer to problems, and it might have been possible to avoid.......but thats a situation past now. Your military was happy to let a bunch of armed terrorists on their way, just like they did in Libya, you can see how doing that greatly improved living standards in that country.
    So you are suggesting that the US did a deal with known terrorists......is that not a crime, or only when other, non-ally, countries do it? I know its so easy to be dis-connected, being on that continent far,far away from all the troubles, i wonder if your attitude would be the same if it was happening somewhat closer to your home on the same land mass?

    EDIT: Your so called freedom to critizize your government may not quite be as liberal as you wish to believe. A US citizen has recently had his Facebook posts deleted and account frozen for 3 days, for posting a list of verified false flag attacks. It might have been that he had 5,000 "friends" and that was a post that would quickly get out there. So if you find someone saying something you find hard to believe because you have not read it in your own press, just take a moment to think that some facts are constantly being swept under the carpet. Unfortunately, you do appear to have been completely taken in by negative Russia-bashing.
    Care to share a link, so that I can see who you're talking about? In any case, Facebook is a private company. Our constitution guarantees freedom of speech, not the use of a private company's resources to spread that speech. In any case, do you really think this is comparable to putting polonium in the tea of a person who criticizes the leader? I have said I understand why you feel unable to criticize Putin.

    As to your diversion into the incident you keep harping on, there were certainly problems in its execution. Foreign fighters were not supposed to be allowed to leave, and they left, for example. But the basic idea of striking a deal to save the lives of a large number of civilians has some merit, if no other means of saving them could be found. Had they not made that deal, you would be criticizing the American-backed fighters for killing those civilians. There is no path they could have taken of which you would have approved.

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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    There is no path they could have taken of which you would have approved.
    I, and many others would approve of ALL your military being inside your own border. I wondered how long it would take for the polonium to come up. And you think Oswald shot JFK? There are different rules in play if you want to sit on the table....you might find those rules are the same no matter what side of the table you sit.

    EDIT: Heres a Google link. https://www.google.se/search?q=faceb...DOjk8Ae-yZHQCQ

    If the likes of Facebook and Twitter are private companies, then why does Senator Schiff question RT advertising on those platforms, especially when invited to do so by those "private" companies. Isnt Google and Microsoft private companies too, did they not have to come to some arrangement with the NSA about access? Seems a grey area between private and government interest.
    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 11-18-2017 at 05:24 AM.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I, and many others would approve of ALL your military being inside your own border. I wondered how long it would take for the polonium to come up. And you think Oswald shot JFK? There are different rules in play if you want to sit on the table....you might find those rules are the same no matter what side of the table you sit.

    EDIT: Heres a Google link. https://www.google.se/search?q=faceb...DOjk8Ae-yZHQCQ

    If the likes of Facebook and Twitter are private companies, then why does Senator Schiff question RT advertising on those platforms, especially when invited to do so by those "private" companies. Isnt Google and Microsoft private companies too, did they not have to come to some arrangement with the NSA about access? Seems a grey area between private and government interest.
    Certainly there are problems with the power of internet platforms. But that's in no way equivalent to murdering critics, something Putin has not done just once.

    It would certainly be nice if all countries could keep their troops within their internationally recognized borders, but with Russia annexing Crimea, you're not in much position to make that argument. America gets blamed not only for having its military do things abroad, but also for not doing things we could have done to enforce a peaceful international order and prevent human suffering.

    And yes, I believe Oswald fired the shot that killed Kennedy. That's been well established by forensic science. There may have been others who helped him, and I certainly don't think we know everything about that incident, but if you don't think Oswald fired the shot you are subscribing to conspiracy theories.

    Now tell me, how does Oswald tie into the subject of this thread, which is an unprecedented coalition forming in the middle east?

  17. #52
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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Dammed if you do, and dammed if you dont right? Must be hard being American with all that self -imposed responsibility.
    Oswald has as much to do with this thread as polonium tea, which came first? And no matter how you want to slice the cake, Bush and Obama are responsible for more civilian deaths than can be (allegedly) pointed at Putin. That is a fact that can not be disputed, so we might want to drop the morality card.
    Interesting to see Hariri in France. France had many petro deals in the pipe-line (pun not intended) with Iran before sanctions became an issue. Its easier to get people to fight with each other if you can pin point a difference, usually a religion (in the middle east) or just plain patriotism, but really its just about finances that can be made from resources; its just harder to sell to people you need to sacrifice themselves over fiat currency.

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    Default Re: An Unprecedented Coalition Is Forming In The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Now tell me, how does Oswald tie into the subject of this thread, which is an unprecedented coalition forming in the middle east?
    Got to be a fundamental point here somewhere.
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