Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    1,369

    Default Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    I've noticed that historic replicas, especially of bigger boats, do not use "normal" jib hanks. This makes sense due to the sizes involved, but I hadn't thought of it before.

    So how are these used in practice? Do these ships only rarely unbend the sails? I'm picturing somebody out there dropping all shackle bits overboard as he attempts to unbend the sail in a rising sea.




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    13,387

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    The fellow from PT foundry ,Pete,just gave me a short tutorial on these. They make em in different sizes. These big ships have their stays doubled up. The bronze is made of a special blend that is extra hard and also springy,the springy part is important as it holds em together. Oppose to spring piston hanks.He made the "hanks" for Eagle.
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 11-07-2017 at 03:27 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    35,178

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Those are a much more complicated version of these:


    Which are the hanks that the ships the replicas are replicating would have used. Attached by passing a lashing through the luff cringles and through the loops. And no the forestaysail and jibs would only have been handed if heavy weather canvas was set for the voyage instead of the lighter working sails.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    10,545

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    One of the things that never made it to the market is a jib hank that L. Francis Herreshoff invented works single handed so that the other can hang on to the ship.
    Jay

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,536

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    That's how the Wichard small boat hanks work. They're drastically easier to work with than piston hanks - one hand for the hank and one left over to hold onto the boat with. I would never own another headsail with piston hanks.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    22,928

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Looking at the first photo I wonder if the shackles and pins aren't ones that have a 'slot and catch' feature so the pin is turned only part way and then will partially withdraw for removal and not be lost. I also see a cast eye on the shackle as well as on the pin with a lanyard between.

    Somewhat like this main halyard shackle: https://goo.gl/images/pbgt3H
    Last edited by rbgarr; 11-07-2017 at 04:54 PM.
    "... and the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    35,178

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    Looking at the first photo I wonder if the shackles and pins aren't ones that have a 'slot and catch' feature so the pin is turned only part way and then will partially withdraw for removal and not be lost. I also see a cast eye on the shackle as well as on the pin with a lanyard between.
    I don't think that is a lanyard, looks more like a mousing to stop the pin unwinding.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    10,545

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Herreshoff's jib hanks were simply a double hook that looked a bit like a short bronze cloths pin. All that was needed to load them on the stay was to aim at it with the clip in hand and it automatically spread its jaws apart and grabbed the stay. Removal was a single handed affair consisting of a one hand pinch on the convenient pair of ears. It was a damn ingenious piece of gear! It is a shame it never was produced for sale. L. Francis had made up a whole lot of them out of bronze plate stock. They filled up a drawer in his shop to overflowing.
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 11-07-2017 at 05:18 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    171

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Speaking of Wichard hanks, does anyone know where to find the sew-on variety? Do they even make 'em anymore? They're not shown in their current catalog...

    Jim


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Padanaram, MA USA
    Posts
    9,263

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Do the Wichard hanks catch things they shouldn't?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Downingtown Pa (S/V UTOPIA down in Somer's Point, NJ)
    Posts
    2,603

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Port Townsend now produces sewn on jib hanks.
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    35,178

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Herreshoff's jib hanks were simply a double hook that looked a bit like a short bronze cloths pin. All that was needed to load them on the stay was to aim at it with the clip in hand and it automatically spread its jaws apart and grabbed the stay. Removal was a single handed affair consisting of a one hand pinch on the convenient pair of ears. It was a damn ingenious piece of gear! It is a shame it never was produced for sale. L. Francis had made up a whole lot of them out of bronze plate stock. They filled up a drawer in his shop to overflowing.
    Jay
    Based on sister hooks?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    19,714

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Let's hope metal hanks are a thing of the past

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    PNW, an island west of Seattle
    Posts
    1,248

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Let's hope metal hanks are a thing of the past

    Elaborate, please.

    Jeff

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    10,545

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Based on sister hooks?
    Same basic concept but drastically different.
    Jay

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    10,545

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Although I don't like going off shore with roller reefing headsails, they are pretty handy for daysailing and coastal cruising. When you are used to the tricks of handling slotted foils they also work well and don't force you to carry the bulk of a reefed sail forward in a blow, especially at night!
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 11-08-2017 at 12:20 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA, USA
    Posts
    1,315

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    The fellow from PT foundry ,Pete,just gave me a short tutorial on these. They make em in different sizes.
    Cool! I did the patterns for that entire range of jib hanks! From CGC Eagle-huge to aw-shucks cute. I can't remember for sure, but Pete had me do a whole series of maybe ten different sizes? He handed me a couple originals and a couple suggestions for improvement and turned me loose. One of my first patternmaking jobs:





    I don't think that is a lanyard, looks more like a mousing to stop the pin unwinding.
    Yes, that's correct. However, the pins *can* be completely removed; they are not captive.

    Alex

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    9,556

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Quote Originally Posted by jgjones View Post
    Speaking of Wichard hanks, does anyone know where to find the sew-on variety? Do they even make 'em anymore? They're not shown in their current catalog...
    That is a good question. I don't even see jib hanks in their catalogue or on their web site.

    However... Toplicht (auf Deutschland) has these sew-on Merriman pattern hanks in bronze:

    http://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/takel...orm-aus-bronze


    Very tasty!

    And Wichard has these "soft shackles" -- looks like grommits made from Dyneema to me -- that also look tasty:

    http://marine.wichard.com/rubrique-S...000000-ME.html



    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    19,714

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Let's hope metal hanks are a thing of the past
    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    Elaborate, please.

    Jeff
    As Nick says above, soft shackles resemble grommets, and wear much less. There's no chance of them hurting anyone when flailing around, they wear less, they won't accidentally clip on another stay. A much better solution, and you can make them yourself.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    2,179

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    I know Wichard has been in the business for a long time but that fiddly bit of stainless just looks...fiddly. Little bits like that are fine on a sunny day on a stationary boat but what about a cold wet rainy night?

    I have made up a bunch of soft shackles for anchoring blocks and such on Marianita, you do have to get the "eye" end sized right -not too big or too small- but they are one piece and you can make them up from short bits of dyneema that would otherwise go to waste.
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    PNW, an island west of Seattle
    Posts
    1,248

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    I'm now using the Wichard hanks that Todd refers to above. These are not the piston variety and they can be set and removed with one hand. I find this a valuable trait on Emily Ruth, a small daysailer, because to reach the forestay and handle the jib I must kneel on the foredeck. Fussing around with anything up there isn't my first choice for fun. Although the hanks haven't caused any apparent chafe, that is obviously a possibility wherever metal contacts. So soft shackles/hanks would be great. Can anyone point me towards a one handed model?

    Jeff

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    1,369

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    The reason I started this thread was that my headstays are served dyneema. The serving is a little bit odd in that it makes the stays too large for my piston hanks. Shackles like the OP would work well, but might chafe too much. I've thought about using climbing quick draw caribiners, very much like the wichard hanks, and also soft shackles.

    These pics were sent to me by Brion Toss, I've made up a couple for testing. The advantage is that they stay captive to the stay when you remove the sail. They can go directly on the stay or around a round sailmakers thimble.






  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    2,179

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Those are brilliant!
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA, USA
    Posts
    1,315

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    I find this a valuable trait on Emily Ruth, a small daysailer, because to reach the forestay and handle the jib I must kneel on the foredeck. Fussing around with anything up there isn't my first choice for fun.
    +1 aboard Bucephalus. Sitting on the bowsprit of a small boat fussing with jib hanks isn't something I look forward to.

    The reason I started this thread was that my headstays are served dyneema. The serving is a little bit odd in that it makes the stays too large for my piston hanks.
    I would be worried about the amount of drag betwen the soft eye hanks and the served forestay not allowing the jib to come down expediently, as sometimes needs to happen. Have you found this to be at all the case?

    I *really* like the idea of served Dyneema standing rigging, so I'm watching this general topic closely to see how the details are ironed out.

    Alex

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    1,369

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Currently I am using bits of the tarred twine as hanks. There is some drag but has not been an issue really. The dyneema is super slippery so should be better as a hank. With thimbles is probably best.

    I'm not sure I think serving the headstay is the right thing to do. Replacing that one or two ropes every 8 years due to UV really isn't that bad. I may have more of a maintenance headache keeping the serving happy with the chafe of whatever hank system I end up using.

    I do plan to install downhauls, at least to the jib.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Seattle, W.A., U.S.A
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Historic Ship Jib Hanks

    Another option although not a particularly visually pleasing one is to put a pvc pipe around the headstay so that the jib hanks slide on the pvc rather than chafing the serving. And yes, in my experience traditional brass jib hanks are used similarly to classic wooden fish hanks, in that the sail served onto the hank, and cannot be quickly removed, a fact that becomes incredibly apparent the first time one bends a jib on upside-down.
    Nicholas

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •