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Thread: Phoenix III in WI

  1. #1
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    Default Phoenix III in WI

    This weekend I started building a Phoenix III. I work slow so it will take a year or two, or three. Im not in a hurry and will enjoy the process. My plan is to make patterns out of 1/4 plywood and the use a router to cut the molds and bulkheads. I will only make 1/2 of the pattern so both sides will be the same. Per the plans I will use MDF for the molds.

    My work space is unheated, so I hope I can be planking by next summer. Id also like to get the spar and oar blanks glued up by then too. I can probably put in 10-20 hours per month.

    I perviously built a sharpie out of acx plywood and PL Premium. That was a fun experience but I learned that you might as well use the best materials you can afford because building a boat is so much work. My sharpie lasted 3 years, I want the Phoenix III to last 30.

  2. #2
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    North Bend, OR. USA
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Good for you! We'll look forward to following, and post lots of pics!

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    IF you've seen some of the threads I've posted about trips I've done in my brother's Phoenix III, you probably won't be surprised to hear that I think you've chosen a great boat to build. Here's a couple of photos for inspiration:

    DSCF8023.jpg

    DSCF1794.jpg

    Enjoy your build!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    That is going to be a fine boat, welcome! and Tom, that last shot is a gem of a picture!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Matt,
    She is a lovely little thing. I also look forward to your fotos and comments in the future.

    My own space is unheated too. I did it purposely as I belive it is better for the boat to live with ambient humidity. I have a heated side shop though with a wood stove so I can thaw out my paws when they get too cold.
    Jay

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    I have an 11’ x 17’ breezeway in between my house and garage (garage is even smaller). The build will be a little tight but I am confedant I ca make it work (strong back on wheels etc). I’m preeeeetty sure I can get the boat out when I am done

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    If the pics from WI-TOM don't inspire you, there's no hope! That's a pretty boat, no doubt about it!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Mitchell View Post
    I have an 11’ x 17’ breezeway in between my house and garage (garage is even smaller). The build will be a little tight but I am confedant I ca make it work (strong back on wheels etc). I’m preeeeetty sure I can get the boat out when I am done
    Almost the exact size of my "garage" that I am going to build the Tammie Norrie in, with the same thoughts of strong back on wheels, etc. We will have to keep tabs on each other's skinned elbows in tight quarters!

    Ken

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Lol Ken. I am thinking of making the strong back top out of 4x8 sheets of plywood. The plans recommend that the strong back be 3’ wide, so I thought I would offset the molds so that I have a 1’ working surface the length of the boat. I think this will come in handy for spars and possibly planking. I also am thinking of gluing the scarfs when the planks go on.

    Tom, that is pretty much what I’m going for! Thanks for the picture, I have a lot of questions by the way, all in good time.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    [QUOTE=Matt Mitchell;5390055]Lol Ken. I am thinking of making the strong back top out of 4x8 sheets of plywood. The plans recommend that the strong back be 3’ wide, so I thought I would offset the molds so that I have a 1’ working surface the length of the boat. I think this will come in handy for spars and possibly planking. I also am thinking of gluing the scarfs when the planks go on.

    Pretty much what I have been thinking, i.e. my thread, Coos Bay Tammie Norrie build. You will see the strong back I have built, though I have since added casters. Hope to order kit by Jan 1st, we may be able to follow one another's builds, which would be fun. (I suspect my winter will allow better weather than yours though!) Keep us posted!
    Ken

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    I guess it has been 3 years, but I am all set to put my last plank on.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Mitchell View Post
    I guess it has been 3 years, but I am all set to put my last plank on.
    Great to see you moving along! It took me 7 years of very part-time work to build my current boat, so you're still ahead of me from what I can tell.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Congrats!

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Pictures please!

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Thanks for the encouragement. I just finished gluing the last plank on 15 min ago. I’ll post some pictures tomorrow. The boat has been sitting there for about a year and a half with one plank glued on. And that’s fine. I started working on it again at the end of June and really have a lot of momentum going.

    There has been quite a learning curve with the planking process. It is ironic that I am done now when I feel like I am just starting to get the hang of it.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Yeah,
    I know the feeling! Thus I think the comments you always hear about the "next boat". Don't see that in my future, unless it's with the grandkids??? But I feel like virtually every step has a learning curve, some more, some less. Too many things you would never do outside of boatbuilding. All of them challenging and satisfying in different ways. Cardinal rule for me? Enjoy the process!

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Mitchell View Post
    It is ironic that I am done now when I feel like I am just starting to get the hang of it.
    Yep. I felt exactly the same way after launching my boat--that NOW I know how to do a good job...

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    I have been pretty busy, since my last post I have started and finished the spars, glued the keel on, fabricated the gunwales and stared the oars. My next step is to do the outer stem. I’m pretty happy with my progress.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI



    Here is a picture I took today, this has the second coat of primer on it. I did the first coat with a roller, the second coat with a Wagner sprayer. The sprayer was much easier and yielded a more even finish. Plus it took about 1/2 the time. I plan at least 2 more coats of primer and 2-3 of top coat. My shop is only at about 40F right now, I am very pleased with how quickly the primer is drying.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Now that I have re-learned how to post pictures, let's start from the beginning.

    Here are the sail plans that Ross has in his plans. I purchased the balanced lug from Duckworks.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    The plans have all the dimensions for the molds, I made 1/2 patterns to lay out on the mold-stock. I used MDF for the molds. I probably would not bother making 1/2 patterns for the molds again, but it is handy for the bulkheads when you want to lay things out in the marine grade plywood in a efficient manner.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Another thing I would do different is to extend the mold all the way down to the strong back. I did save $40 worth of MDF, but spent hours and hours getting everything level and square.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Here is the first mold on the strongback. I am really happy with the strongback design I used. I had plenty of room to get underneath when planking, and I can slide it around on the floor. By the way, the floor in my shop is the cheap click-together stuff, not real wood.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Here is a picture with all the molds in place and the keelson on. I painted the keelson white, strung a center line and painted it blue so the white paint would show where the center line was. This didn't work very well and was a waste of time. Of course all of the paint gets planed off during the beveling step.


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Hello Matt,
    I think your 2 coats of primer look very good!

    If I may can ask, what the primer is and also what top coat are you planning on using?

    Regards,
    Alan

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    First plank on baby! You can see on the floor that I am using the method described by Ross in the directions for determining the plank shape using battens, scrap wood and hot glue. This method worked well for me. I would then trace the pattern 2 sheets of plywood and use a circular saw to cut out each set of planks. At first I was using a pull saw to cut one plank at a time but that took forever.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    In this picture you can see a lot of material missing on the port-side garboard near the bow. I attached the planking with screws during glue up, and removed the screws too early. When I came back the next morning the garboard had pulled away from the bow so there was a 1/2" gap for about 2 feet. I was so upset that I didn't take any pictures or work on the boat for about 6 months. Eventually I completed the planking and faired the garboard as best as I could. I used some wood strips and a lot of thickened epoxy. To be honest no one would probably notice unless I pointed it out. Afterwards I always made sure the epoxy was fully cured before I removed any clamps or screws.


  28. #28
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Finally, here is a picture of the oar-blanks. I did the spars the same way (no pictures, sorry). One tool that I think is a "must have" (either own or be able to borrow), is a thickness planer. At first I was trying to thickness everything by hand, but I just flat-out (ha ha) don't have the skills to do a good job on a 14' long board to keep everything square. I ended up picking a Dewalt one up second hand and it saved me a bunch of time.


  29. #29
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    The primed boat looks pretty good. Glad spraying is working for you. I found the roll/tip to be quite time consuming and that it has to be done just right to avoid drips/sags while having enough to flow out (this was with Brightside interlux), and drying time costs a full day between coats. You may have missed Alan's question, I have the same one, what kind of primer and paint are you using?

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    I am using 123 bulls eye primer, water based, and Lucite acrylic latex exterior for the top coat.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Hello Matt,

    Thanks!

    I'm thinking about primer for a little runabout I'm trying to build and am always interested in what other builders are doing.
    What was the overspray situation like with the Wagner sprayer?

    Regards,
    Alan
    Last edited by Alan71; 01-25-2021 at 03:45 PM.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Hi Alan, I am using a Wagner 570, it cost about $150. So far it has been really handy for projects around the house. Even if I didn’t need it for anything else I think I would buy one to paint the boat. Overspray is not an issue, but you need to wear a respirator, especially inside.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    I actually did get some overspray with the top coat. I ended up using a roller and brush for the coat I did tonight. That is 4 coats of primer and 2 of top coat. I may or may not do one more.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Mitchell View Post
    I actually did get some overspray with the top coat. I ended up using a roller and brush for the coat I did tonight. That is 4 coats of primer and 2 of top coat. I may or may not do one more.
    Congrats on the work!

    For consideration, as careful as we tried to be, after flipping the boat to work on the inside, we caused enough dings on the outside that I was glad we waited on painting the outside until the inside work was finished. So, you might save a final outside coat until later. The Phoenix is light enough, that flipping another time is no big deal.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Phoenix III in WI

    Got the boat flipped over today. Two friends stopped by to help.

    I am pretty happy and feel a sense of accomplishment. However I do see all of the things I could have done better. It reminds me of the opening credits of the Woodwright's shop on PBS where Roy Underhill takes a close look at a chair he made and tosses it in the woods.




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