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Thread: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Any suggestions on sourcing a 660/12? I think I want to go solid-body, as I already have a semi-hollow 12-string.
    I had a 660/12 for a while. I bought it new, but don't remember which dealer it came from. It sounded great, but having always had the hollow bodied models, I couldn't warm up to that little dinky body. The extra neck width was nice, but I didn't like the string spacing. Too much space between the primary and octave strings for my taste, so it felt like a continuous band of strings across the fingerboard, rather than six distinct pairs of strings. Others have mentioned the same thing. If I would have kept it, I would have re-cut the nut to tighten up the pairs, but I certainly couldn't complain about the sound it made. Did it sound different from the hollow bodies? Maybe a little bit in some ways, but not really very much. Rickenbacker twelves have a distinct sound that you can pick out within seconds on a recording. Could I tell the solid and hollow models apart on a recording? Probably not.

    http://www.broadjam.com/songs/toddbradshaw/loch-lomond


  2. #72
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Yeah, I think a lot of the distinction is the string arrangement, with the octave strings on the treble side rather than the bass side of each course. I actually had a new walrus ivory nut and saddle made for my Godin A12 with Ric-style string arrangement and Taylor-style dual compensated saddle. It's pretty sweet, but I'd like a full-on electric 12 too. There's no dealer nearby, so I'd probably end up mail-ordering from someone in the States, which is why I was wondering about sources.

    What are you doing about it?




  3. #73
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    The twangy guitar in the middle is a Yamaha Silent Guitar (steel six string), another pretty interesting instrument.
    What can you tell me about that? I bought one two years ago, but it arrived broken. I sent it back and didn't buy another. I had in mind playing it with headphones so I did not upset my better half with my noise. Is that even viable?

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Yes. I first saw a silent guitar at one of those Music-Go-Round used instrument stores. I was initially attracted because it has kind of a Picasso visual vibe about it. I tried it and eventually bought one. The top half unscrews and the guitar will fit in a half-width bag for travel and is pretty durable. It has a headphone jack (and a jack for an amp, if desired) and even a built in reverb circuit if you want to add some. While it doesn't sound exactly like an acoustic guitar, it's not bad at all, and similar to many of the acoustics with built-in pickups. They make both a steel-string model and a classical model (which I haven't tried). Playability is good, though it is a flatter fingerboard radius than most seem to have. Our old lead guitarist is a Nashville studio musician and also tours playing guitar for Kim Carnes from time to time. He uses his on stage in several of her YouTube videos.


  5. #75
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    That is certainty an interesting looking instrument.

    Chad
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  6. #76
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Back when Garnet Rogers toured with a dozen guitars or so he occasionally used one. Interesting instrument.

    What are you doing about it?




  7. #77
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    There are several makes of silent guitar out there. One seems to have a metal frame covered in that foam you cover pipes with in the basement. It looks AWFUL! The Yamaha looks like it would hold up. My real question is whether it feels right and I think Todd just told me that it does (minus the flat finger board).

    I don't have a steel string. I'm thinking it might be a nice way to try one without bothering my wife so much.

    And I also saw that thing Garnet used to play with the extra strings... I love his playing, but sometimes I do wonder why?

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    I think a totally silent guitar could do much to improve my playing.

    Peace,
    Robert

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    And I also saw that thing Garnet used to play with the extra strings... I love his playing, but sometimes I do wonder why?
    Which thing with extra strings? I might have missed that. (He just came through here for the last time, so it was nice to see him, but the end of a chapter. We'll have to go back east to see him now.)

    What are you doing about it?




  10. #80
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Which thing with extra strings? I might have missed that. (He just came through here for the last time, so it was nice to see him, but the end of a chapter. We'll have to go back east to see him now.)
    Last time? Is he retiring? If so, that's a real loss.

    Here he is playing it:

    https://youtu.be/Se2ilVnL_28

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Oh, a harp guitar! Nice. Emerald makes a really cool harp guitar, and a harp uke, too.

    Garnet's not retiring, but he's finding the long drives out west to be a bit much, so he's cutting back to touring only in the east.

    What are you doing about it?




  12. #82
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    I probably should have kept my silent guitar, but my instrument pool pretty much funds itself these days. If I see something I like, something else usually has to go to make room for it and finance it. I've gone through a whole bunch of six-strings - a couple solid body RICs, a hollow body RIC, a gorgeous solid rosewood Telecaster (I never knew Fender could do such nice woodworking), the Yamaha, a Takamine or two, an Epiphone and several amps. Funny though.... no matter how many six-strings I buy, I'm still a lousy six-string player. I still have a high end Takamine acoustic six with a tube pre-amp inside it, because I occasionally need one for recording something, but that's it at the moment for six strings. If they made a twelve string silent guitar, I'd probably buy one.

    They also make a silent violin. That's got to be a real lifesaver for parents of young kids who are taking violin lessons and practicing at home.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    And a silent cello

    Which is pretty quiet on a concrete floor, much less so on floorboards...
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Ah, the old resonance trick. I started figuring out how to play bass guitar back in 1967 - but didn't get an amp until 1969. I spent many hours with the head of my old Hagstrom H2 held up against the hollow core door of my room so that I could hear what I was doing. Still the fastest bass neck I've ever played.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Sprog #2 did similarly - but as he had a headless bass he had to put the blunt end against a board.

    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    If you plug a mono jack in you get standard RIC 330. If you plug in a stereo jack you have an additional output to send to other effects, channels, tracks or a second amp.
    Todd,

    Doesn't Rickenbacker have some cool, last-century term for that feature? Rick-o-tone? Rick-o-sonic? Something....?

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Oh, a harp guitar! Nice.
    I listened to that video again and I confess that I liked the sound of it. I assume those extra strings resonate and give the guitar an extra tone or sustain? That might be the first recording I've heard that was clear enough to appreciate the instrument.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Doesn't Rickenbacker have some cool, last-century term for that feature? Rick-o-tone? Rick-o-sonic? Something....?
    Yes, some models have RIC-O-Sound, which has an alternate output jack (stereo, or actually double mono). Then they used to use a little floor box with a splitter in it that would divide it into two mono outputs which could be sent to different locations. These days, we can get Y-cords custom made, which do the splitting with no box needed. The 330 and 340 guitars are single jack mono without a RIC-O-Sound jack, so I added my own system when I converted from two to three pickups. Their factory system for three pickups just lumps the middle one in with either the neck or bridge pickup circuit and I never thought it added much. I wanted more control over its sound than that, so I put the middle pickup on its own circuit and changed the guitar's mono output jack to a stereo one. A Y-cord now gives me the two different signals if I want them. A mono cord plugged into the jack just yields the original bridge pickup, neck pickup and blend knob configuration.

    Motivation was mostly because I normally use a Jangle-Box compressor, specifically made to yield Byrds-style sound from a RIC twelve when combined with the proper strings. It does so, but at times it seemed a bit lacking on low end to me. With RIC-O-Sound or my dual output system I can send one signal to the compressor and the other to a non-compressed channel (or different amp) and mix in a little low end to fill the sound out. I did this to my fretless Les Paul bass in late 1971 and ran it with two jacks, two cords and two amp channels throughout most of my active band years. One channel was set very bassy using the Gibson humbucker pickup (which aren't known for definition, nicknamed "mudbuckers"). To give the sound some definition and percussion, I added a Precision Bass pickup under the hand-rest, cranked the treble and bright switch on that channel and mixed some of that in with the mudbucker. This is a demo of the two sounds mixed, and what the individual channels sound like alone.

    http://webpages.charter.net/tbradsha...ibson%20LP.MP3

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    ^Very cool. Thanks for sharing!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    New gear is always exciting. Here are my latest:

    Emerald Amicus 12 - a short-scale, unison-course 12-string I've tuned BEADF#B, like a guitar capoed at the 7th fret:

    Attachment 5004
    With a short neck and carbon construction (it appears), that, my friend, is a stable and tough instrument. And, I'll bet, is within airline carryon size limits.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Here is the actual guitar that I crave. I played it last at practice and it felt like a dream and sounded great. Gotta think long and hard about it though. Out of my "disposable" income I just spent $420 on wheel bearings and I owe the great state of TN $145 for enjoying the freedom of the open road at a greater speed than they like, so I gotta think about another $330.




    Chad
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  22. #92
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    With a short neck and carbon construction (it appears), that, my friend, is a stable and tough instrument. And, I'll bet, is within airline carryon size limits.
    I haven't checked, but yeah, it might be. Most airlines will let you carry on a full-sized guitar these days, though. I have to confess I've never tried, but I'm given to understand it's become quite acceptable.

    What are you doing about it?




  23. #93
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I listened to that video again and I confess that I liked the sound of it. I assume those extra strings resonate and give the guitar an extra tone or sustain? That might be the first recording I've heard that was clear enough to appreciate the instrument.
    Sympathetic resonance helps, I think, but they're also played as bass strings. Here's one of my favourite harp guitar videos:


    What are you doing about it?




  24. #94
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Interesting, though I suspect it's awfully limited in terms of the types of music and tempos you can play. Overlapping sustain (or resonance if there actually is much) on different bass strings tends to make bad mud, so you're either going to have to be palm muting on the bass while also playing the guitar part, or stick with these rather slow, ethereal arrangements. In other words, I don't expect to hear a rousing version of a bluegrass tune on one of those things. It sounds like the bass strings are tuned EGABCD, which covers most of the needed notes, and then he's picking up the F# when desired from the sixth string of the guitar section. Cool, but I suspect its limitations might get tedious fast.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    Interesting, though I suspect it's awfully limited in terms of the types of music and tempos you can play. Overlapping sustain (or resonance if there actually is much) on different bass strings tends to make bad mud, so you're either going to have to be palm muting on the bass while also playing the guitar part, or stick with these rather slow, ethereal arrangements. In other words, I don't expect to hear a rousing version of a bluegrass tune on one of those things. It sounds like the bass strings are tuned EGABCD, which covers most of the needed notes, and then he's picking up the F# when desired from the sixth string of the guitar section. Cool, but I suspect its limitations might get tedious fast.
    Agreed on all counts, and I wouldn't be rushing out to get one myself. Now their doublenecks, on the other hand... I keep thinking it would be handy to have one instrument with a twelve-string in standard tuning and a six-string in DADGAD. Or even two sixes, maybe.

    What are you doing about it?




  26. #96
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Back when Garnet Rogers toured with a dozen guitars or so he occasionally used one. Interesting instrument.
    I stumbled across this tonight. I didn't remember him playing a Yamaha silent (nylon string no less) to play King of Rome, but here it is.

    https://youtu.be/xv-HnbxjnhM

    A lot of people have run guitars through synthesizers, but I think Rogers does it with more soul than most.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    A lot of people have run guitars through synthesizers, but I think Rogers does it with more soul than most.
    Indeed. I'm sort of sorry he got away from them - he'd love the way some of the newer pickups track, and the GR-55 is a hell of a piece of kit. One day I'll learn to take full advantage of mine...

    What are you doing about it?




  28. #98
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Indeed. I'm sort of sorry he got away from them - he'd love the way some of the newer pickups track, and the GR-55 is a hell of a piece of kit. One day I'll learn to take full advantage of mine...
    What's a GR-55?

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    '65 Hofner Verithin, double cutaway. Rare as. The necks a bit of a log, but the tone sure makes up for it. Missing scratch plate, and yes, weirdly that is the original pickup switch.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Thank you! That isn't as expensive as I would have thought.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Nice old Hofner. Ever see the video from the Hofner factory. They build a 5000/1-V63 Beatle bass and there is a surprising amount of by-eye hand work, wooden jigs, etc. The soundtrack is fair at best, but the process is pretty interesting.


  33. #103
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Great video Todd, thanks. From the days when people actually made things... I was a bit amazed at the feet cutting, which appeared to be free hand. What an enormous amount of jigging involved. Great.

    The red guitar above was an interesting hit back at Gibson, who brought out the SG in '62, and which wiped the floor with everybody. Musicians wanted power, rock n roll was getting loud and dirty. SG's had 2 pick ups, shock horror, and legendary sustain. Hofner was an acoustic / archtop / semi company, so they applied what they knew to counter the SG takeover, resulting in my guitar. Double cut away, 2 pick ups, but semi. Doesn't have the sustain, but masses of tone. And of course it had to be red.

    I bought a Tokai SG last year with Duncan Seymour bridge pick up, for cheap. Always amazed me just how damn musical the AK47 of guitars can be, love it.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    All those exposed spinning blades are a bit freaky, but as far as I could see, the employees still had all their fingers. I've owned two 5001-V63 basses, one fretted and one fretless, and they were both very nicely made and finished. It's neat to see the video and realize that mine were probably made on those same jigs and tools. I was surprised to see the guy cutting fret slots without an obvious jig, but maybe it just wasn't visible in the video. I eventually sold the fretless, as I have others that do what I want them to do better, but the other one isn't going anywhere. Especially as one gets old and lazy, the fact that they weigh about half of what most basses weigh makes them the first one you grab off the wall.



    I did a stint with SG bodies as well, in the form of my EB0 bass. I eventually had the SG-style body taken off and my walnut Les Paul body installed.
    Old newspaper photo from 1971. No wonder my grandmother used to call me "Big and Spooky".


  35. #105
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    Default Re: Tobacco Flat - My next guitar

    Great photo Todd! And very nice instruments. I'm no Jaco, but love playing fretless.

    Saw this on a bar wall in Spain a month ago..
    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

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