Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 39

Thread: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Louisville, Kentucky
    Posts
    23,544

    Default Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Trump is issuing an executive order ending ACA subsidies immediately. These are subsidies paid to insurance companies to help them provide affordable health insurance to low-income Americans. This will crater the insurance markets created by the ACA.

    Pure sabotage. This should backfire nicely in the mid-term elections.
    " Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy. You in America will see that some day."

    " The truth is that men are tired of liberty."

    -- Benito Mussolini



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    8,376

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Trump is issuing an executive order ending ACA subsidies immediately. These are subsidies paid to insurance companies to help them provide affordable health insurance to low-income Americans. This will crater the insurance markets created by the ACA.

    Pure sabotage. This should backfire nicely in the mid-term elections.
    it will also bankrupt those 100,000 of people/families who will drop coverage then get sick. The cycle of debt and death is going to be horrific. Midterm election won't save the people who will opt out or think they can wait out serious medical conditions in hopes for a fair deal.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    8,394

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Lots of folks who voted for Trump need healthcare the most. They got what they deserved.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,324

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    The election of this president was a sordid pratfall for our democracy. As a Nation we can get back up ,scrape off the xxxx , and move on . For some individuals it may be a tragedy.
    Last edited by Bill Perkins; 10-15-2017 at 08:59 AM. Reason: There are 4 x's in xxxx

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    21,569

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    This has the stench of Stephen Miller all over it.
    He is Trump's dead-eyed reptilian Chief Policy Advisor.
    He spends his days underneath rocks and comes out at night to feed on the weak and poor.
    Somebody get a rope!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    8,368

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    Lots of folks who voted for Trump need healthcare the most. They got what they deserved.
    Agreed and Very true. Sad irony that many low income and blue collar rust belt workers tend to be of poor health. Poor diet, smoking and obesity are very common in these communities. They often need affordable healthcare the most.
    Maybe next time they'll spend more time thinking in the polling booth than they do when voting for thier favorite contestant on American idol.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,688

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Trump is issuing an executive order ending ACA subsidies immediately.
    While I don't like the consequences, it does appear a court has found the payments unconstitutional. Congress needs to appropriate the money.
    Life is complex.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    8,376

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    While I don't like the consequences, it does appear a court has found the payments unconstitutional. Congress needs to appropriate the money.
    there is no will to pass any meaningful legislation. If Trump continues with the unraveling of protections for those most venerable, the mechanisms to provide needed insurances, healthcare and help will be set back for a generation.

    Here are the cold SOBs that killed 100,000s and crushed tens of thousands of families in areas who were promised the most help. For damn sure, you don't need a tax break if you are not insured, growing sick and can't afford to get medical attention
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 10-13-2017 at 09:33 AM.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    31,546

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    It's intentional that it will disproportionately savage the demographic that shows up at Trump's rallies, IMO.

    They will tell their stories of bankruptcies, suicides, stupidly high premiums for insurance policies which don't cover what people thought. And be told that this is "Obamacare's fault." That it's proof that "Obamacare is imploding" after all, just like Trump's said.

    Trump will claim that it's always been a hateful law, was intended from the very beginning to hurt good hardworking Reps while helping those lying Dems - and that such a diabolical intent is only now becoming obvious.

    And none of them will believe the purveyors of "fake news," who will be pointing out that private insurers make business decisions in their own financial interests. That the pain they're experiencing is a direct result of private insurers taking predicted actions to manage their own risk, when confronted by the destabilizations the Trump administration introduced.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    8,376

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    It's intentional that it will disproportionately savage the demographic that shows up at Trump's rallies, IMO.

    They will tell their stories of bankruptcies, suicides, stupidly high premiums for insurance policies which don't cover what people thought. And be told that this is "Obamacare's fault." That it's proof that "Obamacare is imploding" after all, just like Trump's said.

    Trump will claim that it's always been a hateful law, was intended from the very beginning to hurt good hardworking Reps while helping those lying Dems - and that such a diabolical intent is only now becoming obvious.

    And none of them will believe the purveyors of "fake news," who will be pointing out that private insurers make business decisions in their own financial interests. That the pain they're experiencing is a direct result of private insurers taking predicted actions to manage their own risk, when confronted by the destabilizations the Trump administration introduced.
    You are giving the narcissist moron in chief too much credit. He had someone near him whisper this plan which was most likely the last one without explaining the whole system. Trump didn't realize or care the whisperer was going to make a windfall personally or for his lobby.

    In this white house, it is about who can profit off horrible executive orders as congress is beyond dysfunctional. With such dysfunction, this republican tyrant is the only person capable of national governmental direction. We are lucky as a nation, he is also incapable of putting administrators who can carry out destructive regional administrative directives.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    31,546

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    A Trump "surrogate" on CNN this morning said that one court has ruled that the subsidies themselves were not legal - they didn't go into the arguments. Trump's people argue that this gives the Executive the scope and discretion to act on this aspect of the ACA's implementation. Presumably, they're acting now so that the next step of the legal proceedings won't go the other way, and close the window.

    I dunno about the other Order, about selling insurance across state lines. On the face of it, that seems to be a legislative decision rather than a matter of Exec discretion.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Winnipeg MB
    Posts
    15,018

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    Lots of folks who voted for Trump need healthcare the most. They got what they deserved.
    Yes, well, as Mencken observed, "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    What are you doing about it?




  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    31,546

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Ted, I agree that Trump is mostly unaware of the impact of what he's doing - though we've no evidence to suggest he'd actually care if he were aware.

    I think Trump just wants to "win" in a series of "deals," and the impacts on citizens of the tactics he'll use to "win" aren't important. What's important is humiliating his opponent.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Everett, WA
    Posts
    25,003

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Trust me, that narrative out of the Republican circular firing squad will be that they are simply providing " lower cost" insurance alternatives, completely skating over the fact that by shrinking pools of subscribers, costs in fact will go up for a majority of people. The only way insurance really works is by expanding the pool as large as possible.

    The Stumps, of course, will swallow the White House swill hook, line, and sinker. Idjits.

    You FOOLS who voted for him.

    "Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country. " -Me
    Gerard>
    Everett, WA

    RESIST. FIGHT THE POWER.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,067

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Lots of folks who voted for Trump need healthcare the most. They got what they deserved.
    Could be, but I agree with Shakespeare on this point:

    Polonius: My lord, I will use them according to their desert.

    Hamlet: God’s bodykins, man, much better. Use every man after his desert, and who should ’scape whipping? Use them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,688

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    It's intentional that it will disproportionately savage the demographic that shows up at Trump's rallies, IMO.

    They will tell their stories of bankruptcies, suicides, stupidly high premiums for insurance policies which don't cover what people thought. And be told that this is "Obamacare's fault." That it's proof that "Obamacare is imploding" after all, just like Trump's said.

    Trump will claim that it's always been a hateful law, was intended from the very beginning to hurt good hardworking Reps while helping those lying Dems - and that such a diabolical intent is only now becoming obvious.

    And none of them will believe the purveyors of "fake news," who will be pointing out that private insurers make business decisions in their own financial interests. That the pain they're experiencing is a direct result of private insurers taking predicted actions to manage their own risk, when confronted by the destabilizations the Trump administration introduced.
    You might consider the effect that the ACA had on people at the median. Those with incomes of $50K paid 10% of that toward premiums. Plus out of pocket amounts. That seems excessive to me. Especially for those who had little to no healthcare expense.
    Life is complex.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    31,546

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    TLT, I have long said that the Affordable Care Act ought to have included a "public option," which extended existing publicly funded care programs (like Medicare or Medicaid). And that citizens receive a tax credit or refund for the amount of their taxes which would have been earmarked as "health premium" if on the tax return the individual provided proof of current insurance at or above the baseline level of coverage provided in the public option.

    You have seen the charts, many times ... though you quibble every time. But every country which uses a publicly funded health insurance model like this covers 100% of their citizens, and spends less than 50% per capita to cover their citizens than America spends today to cover only some. I have no doubt whatsoever that America's innovative and bright people would find themselves unable to do what every one of their "allies and competitors" has already achieved. The costs per capita would drive down - we know this because it is driven down elsewhere.

    The benefits would accrue most to people who were not all that interested in paying to get a concierge-quality hotel experience during their health care episode - you laugh, but you shouldn't.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,688

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    TLT, I have long said that the Affordable Care Act ought to have included a "public option," which extended existing publicly funded care programs (like Medicare or Medicaid). And that citizens receive a tax credit or refund for the amount of their taxes which would have been earmarked as "health premium" if on the tax return the individual provided proof of current insurance at or above the baseline level of coverage provided in the public option.

    You have seen the charts, many times ... though you quibble every time. But every country which uses a publicly funded health insurance model like this covers 100% of their citizens, and spends less than 50% per capita to cover their citizens than America spends today to cover only some. I have no doubt whatsoever that America's innovative and bright people would find themselves unable to do what every one of their "allies and competitors" has already achieved. The costs per capita would drive down - we know this because it is driven down elsewhere.

    The benefits would accrue most to people who were not all that interested in paying to get a concierge-quality hotel experience during their health care episode - you laugh, but you shouldn't.
    I think we both see some injustice in the ACA. I think we offer different remedies. I am not going to believe that there will be the significant reduction in costs that you and others think will happen until it happens.

    HSAs were a good idea for the rich. They could have been a good idea for the poor if the tax benefit was sufficient for the poor and decreased as income increased. I think that is consistent with your suggestion.
    Life is complex.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    8,376

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I think we both see some injustice in the ACA. I think we offer different remedies. I am not going to believe that there will be the significant reduction in costs that you and others think will happen until it happens.

    HSAs were a good idea for the rich. They could have been a good idea for the poor if the tax benefit was sufficient for the poor and decreased as income increased. I think that is consistent with your suggestion.
    What part of a tax cut benefit does a poor person need and will apply to get health insurance?
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    13,405

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I think we both see some injustice in the ACA. I think we offer different remedies. I am not going to believe that there will be the significant reduction in costs that you and others think will happen until it happens.

    HSAs were a good idea for the rich. They could have been a good idea for the poor if the tax benefit was sufficient for the poor and decreased as income increased. I think that is consistent with your suggestion.
    If wishes were horses..
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,688

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    What part of a tax cut benefit does a poor person need and will apply to get health insurance?
    I would give the poor 100% refundable tax credit for all healthcare expenses. It is easier for the government to just pay for the healthcare for the poor - those in the bottom 50%.
    Life is complex.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    8,376

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I would give the poor 100% refundable tax credit for all healthcare expenses. It is easier for the government to just pay for the healthcare for the poor - those in the bottom 50%.
    won't work as we live in a cruel system - What happens when the bills come in and fines/interest are added to a person already sick and could not even afford the copay. I don't see any hospital waiting for its money to be paid in a year of more for services rendered. furthermore Imagine what that co-pay and buy in would be for someone who makes 75k a year and has a family of 4 to support.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,067

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    TLT keeps bringing up the faults of current system, and keeps proposing something that might work OK, but has about as much chance of becoming law as a three-headed unicorn replacing the bald eagle as the national symbol. But this thread is about recent actions by the president, not utopian dreams. Absolutely everything the Republicans have proposed recently will do terrible harm to real people. Yes, the ACA has problems, but there's nothing so bad that human ingenuity can't make it a lot worse.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,688

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    won't work as we live in a cruel system - What happens when the bills come in and fines/interest are added to a person already sick and could not even afford the copay. I don't see any hospital waiting for its money to be paid in a year of more for services rendered. furthermore Imagine what that co-pay and buy in would be for someone who makes 75k a year and has a family of 4 to support.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    TLT keeps bringing up the faults of current system, and keeps proposing something that might work OK, but has about as much chance of becoming law as a three-headed unicorn replacing the bald eagle as the national symbol. But this thread is about recent actions by the president, not utopian dreams. Absolutely everything the Republicans have proposed recently will do terrible harm to real people. Yes, the ACA has problems, but there's nothing so bad that human ingenuity can't make it a lot worse.
    You both seem to say the poor need to pay for their healthcare. I disagree.

    I have asked many times who is going to pay taxes to support single payer and that typically gets ignored. The ACA had a ACA tax on incomes over $250K (or so). We have a progressive tax system. It seems easy enough to add the appropriate taxes on incomes over the median. But it is easier to make claims "single payer" without the details of who pays the taxes.

    The ACA did terrible harm to real people also. Just different people.
    Life is complex.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, Hardin Valley, TN
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Relax.

    All phony news. Never Happened.

    Nothing to see here.

    Nothing going on that concerns the cockroaches.

    Scuttle along.
    Hands too small: Can't build his Wall!

    Frayed Knot Arts: Fancywork and Rope Jewelry
    http://www.frayedknotarts.com.html[

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    2,147

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    A Trump "surrogate" on CNN this morning said that one court has ruled that the subsidies themselves were not legal - they didn't go into the arguments. Trump's people argue that this gives the Executive the scope and discretion to act on this aspect of the ACA's implementation. Presumably, they're acting now so that the next step of the legal proceedings won't go the other way, and close the window.

    I dunno about the other Order, about selling insurance across state lines. On the face of it, that seems to be a legislative decision rather than a matter of Exec discretion.
    In this country, the only branch of government that can appropriate money, is Congress. In fact, Trump's action is constitutional; the "Constitutional Scholar's", wasn't. He did it, even though congress voted it down. For all the BS thrown out about him, Trump is more active, and more constitutional, than any President we've had in a while.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21,219

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    In this country, the only branch of government that can appropriate money, is Congress. In fact, Trump's action is constitutional; the "Constitutional Scholar's", wasn't. He did it, even though congress voted it down. For all the BS thrown out about him, Trump is more active, and more constitutional, than any President we've had in a while.
    An enemy of the First Amendment, an enemy of the Emoluments Clause, an enemy of the 4th Amendment, in short, an Enemy of the State.

    The world will be a better place when he dies.
    Rattling the teacups.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    2,147

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    An enemy of the First Amendment, an enemy of the Emoluments Clause, an enemy of the 4th Amendment, in short, an Enemy of the State.

    The world will be a better place when he dies.
    Trump has only talked. Obama and democrats have actually acted to restrain free speech. Democrats, the tolerant ones, don't abide differing opinions. And yes, the Obama administration violated the 4th Amendment, also.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21,219

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Trump is more active,
    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Trump has only talked.
    Make up your mind.

    Either way, he's a Moron.
    Rattling the teacups.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Between Here and There
    Posts
    25,660

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    While I don't like the consequences, it does appear a court has found the payments unconstitutional. Congress needs to appropriate the money.

    We all know you're very concerned about the poor and their health care. While the ACA didn't help my family, it was of real benefit to the working poor. This is going to sting and of course, those of us buying insurance will now get either stripped down, minimal coverage or will pay more for equal insurance. Few in touch with the facts on the ground think this is a good idea.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    2,147

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Make up your mind.

    Either way, he's a Moron.
    Quoting me, out of context, is a losers failing.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21,219

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Quoting me, out of context, is a losers failing.
    Saying I expected the Electoral College to do my bidding is just 'remarkable'.

    You trumpistanis love that 'loser', that 'failure'.

    I really do not value your opinion of me, so no skin offa mine.


    Have fun being used up by your Charlatan Prince!
    Rattling the teacups.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,688

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    We all know you're very concerned about the poor and their health care. While the ACA didn't help my family, it was of real benefit to the working poor. This is going to sting and of course, those of us buying insurance will now get either stripped down, minimal coverage or will pay more for equal insurance. Few in touch with the facts on the ground think this is a good idea.
    Insurance is a poor method for paying for healthcare. In general, the amount of health care that causes economic harm to the poor is much smaller than the amount needed to cause economic harm to the rich. This means that the poor need to insure against much smaller risks and therefore need to pay more for insurance.

    Your example of people needing to buy stripped down policies or pay much more is a reflection of day to day life. People make similar choices on most products they buy. Some of those choices are irrational. Many of the decisions turn out to be wrong.
    Life is complex.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    5,405

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Poll: Solid Majority Wants Trump To Fix Obamacare Instead Of Sabotaging It..
    A solid majority of the public — 71 percent — wants to see President Donald Trump make Obamacare work instead of dismantling the law, according to a recent poll conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...-fix-obamacare
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    afloat with at least 6' of water under me.
    Posts
    50,530

    Default Re: Trump to halt ACA subsidiesTrump

    Quote Originally Posted by isla View Post
    Poll: Solid Majority Wants Trump To Fix Obamacare Instead Of Sabotaging It..
    A solid majority of the public — 71 percent — wants to see President Donald Trump make Obamacare work instead of dismantling the law, according to a recent poll conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...-fix-obamacare
    Trump's response; FAKE POLL!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •