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Thread: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

  1. #1
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    Default Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    President Donald Trump on Thursday signed an order that could rattle the Affordable Care Act’s private insurance markets by allowing a proliferation of cheaper, less comprehensive plans that would undermine rules about who and what insurers must cover.

    The changes represent a step toward repeal of Obamacare, something Trump and Republicans have unsuccessfully attempted to do through legislation. “We’re starting that process,” Trump said at a signing ceremony in the Oval Office, adding that he still expects legislation to pass at some point. “Today is only the beginning.”

    The order will primarily affect small businesses and people who buy private coverage on their own, rather than through employers. It could lead the kind of transformation that, according to experts, GOP repeal bills would unleash if one of them were to become law.

    In particular, the new, less regulated insurance plans could provide an attractive alternative to consumers who don’t expect to have large medical bills and who are frustrated with the high premiums they pay for policies today. At the same time, comprehensive coverage could become harder and eventually even impossible to find, especially for people with pre-existing conditions.
    It won't happen right away... but soon, those of us over 50, but not yet 65, and who aren't covered by an employer plan, are suddenly going to discover that insurance will either be unobtainable, or prohibitively expensive.

    It's simple mathematics: by drawing away younger people with good health, via dirt cheap insurance policies that provide only limited coverage, the revenue loss will have to be made up elsewhere.... and it will be made up upon those of us with pre-existing conditions, aged over 50, and with other health care requirements.

    There are a lot of Trump voters in that category... and they're in for a rude awakening.

    With Thursday’s executive order, Trump could push the whole system even closer to collapse.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    I am absolutely certain Trump has virtually no clue as to the ramifications of the document he just signed. His sycophants told him to sign it and he dutifully complied.
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Nero may have fiddled while Rome burned but at least, unlike Trump, he didn't light the fire.

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    And this differs from Obama's DACA executive order how?

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
    And this differs from Obama's DACA executive order how?
    Obama's DACA order was well intentioned, generous and intended to directly help those it targeted. Trump's order is spiteful, vindictive, mean spirited and will disadvantage thousands of people. You can't see that? Jeez
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    I agree. I was pointing out President FUBAR's hypocrisy saying it was unconstitutional.

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Now Trump and the republicans own health care. No more blaming the democrats.
    Tom

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
    I agree. I was pointing out President FUBAR's hypocrisy saying it was unconstitutional.
    OK, apologies for the snark.
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    It won't happen right away... but soon, those of us over 50, but not yet 65, and who aren't covered by an employer plan, are suddenly going to discover that insurance will either be unobtainable, or prohibitively expensive.

    It's simple mathematics: by drawing away younger people with good health, via dirt cheap insurance policies that provide only limited coverage, the revenue loss will have to be made up elsewhere.... and it will be made up upon those of us with pre-existing conditions, aged over 50, and with other health care requirements.
    Simple mathematics says compound interest is your friend and savior.

    People don't save for college educations for their kids. People don't save for retirement. People don't save for late in life health care. And then they want to be bailed out.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Multiple threads; I'll post this here. and close the other one.

    The despicable sociopathic piece of scum is well on track to replace Herbert Hoover or James Buchanan as the worst president ever; a toddler with a chainsaw. (U.S. Grant has already been partially rehabilitated by history.) Source here, and useful information in the links.

    Trump Unveils Full-bore Obamacare SabotageBy Jonathan Chait

    Donald Trump and his party have never been able to figure out a viable alternative to Obamacare. Having failed to repeal and replace the law, they have set out to wreck it. The Trump administration is taking two steps to accomplish this goal. First, it is opening two loopholes to allow healthy people to purchase unregulated insurance, splitting the market and loading more costs onto people with expensive medical needs. Second, it announced tonight it is ending cost-sharing payments to insurers who take on low-income customers.

    Both these changes are designed to put pressure on insurers, increasing premiums by an average of 19 percent, and even splitting up the individual insurance markets. Whether they will succeed is yet to be seen. States committed to making Obamacare work will find solutions that keep their markets intact. (Indeed, there has been a marked difference in the premium levels of states that are trying to help cover their citizens and those that aren’t.)

    What’s more, by withholding payments promised in the law, the administration is exposing itself to a lawsuit it could very well lose. (New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, California Attorney General Xavier Becerra, and others have already announced their intention to sue.) Premiums are going to rise in the meantime, because insurers are subjected to greater uncertainty and the now-demonstrated knowledge that the administration is deliberately sabotaging the law they are operating under.

    The exchanges in 2017 had stabilized financially, as insurers found a profitable price point. The Republican Party has, as a matter of theological principle, refused to accept the possibility that Obamacare might succeed at its stated ends. If Obamacare were truly collapsing, sabotage would not be necessary. It is the law’s success, not its failure, that has made Trump so determined to wreck it. The White House has released a statement confirming its intention to end the payments, written in the pidgin English indicating the president’s own authorial hand:

    Congress is not going to repeal and replace Obamacare. Trump is using crude threats to lure Democrats to accept his repeal plan:

    A Trump tweet:
    The Democrats ObamaCare is imploding. Massive subsidy payments to their pet insurance companies has stopped. Dems should call me to fix!
    4:36 AM - Oct 13, 2017

    The trouble is that every plan Trump has supported would throw even more people off their insurance than his sabotage would. There is no political or policy incentive for them to give him political cover for policies to deny Americans health insurance. Their incentive is to highlight the sabotage that he is boasting about, and fight.

    The Medicaid expansion, which accounts for a majority of the law’s coverage gains, remains in place and is not vulnerable to administrative sabotage. Individual consumers are going to experience a lot of financial pain as a result of Trump’s action. As premiums rise in response to the sabotage, the main public recourse will be to replace the Republican-led government with one capable of passing a workable and humane health-care law.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    And more in the same hideous vein (source): Note that there is not even the slightest attempt to pretend that this will actually help people, it's mere vindictive wrecking.

    How Trump’s New Executive Order Could Kill Obamacare
    By Eric Levitz

    Health-care policy is complicated and boring. The Affordable Care Act is a chunky, unappetizing stew of rules, regulations, and means-tested subsidies. Given these facts, it will be difficult for many to understand — let alone care about — how Donald Trump’s new executive order adjusts that stew’s recipe. Why would anyone have a visceral reaction to regulatory changes that expand access to association health plans and short-term limited-duration insurance (whatever those things are)?

    But while the details here are complex and dull, the upshot is simple — and the stakes for millions of vulnerable Americans are enormous. Unappetizing, bureaucratic stews can keep people nourished; prepared with the wrong ingredients, they can also get people killed.

    Before we get into the nitty-gritty, let’s quickly review what the health-care policy debate in the United States is fundamentally about. Progressives want to live in a society where nonaffluent people don’t routinely die or go bankrupt due to injury or illness. In order to bring this society into being, the young, healthy, and rich need to subsidize the medical costs of the old, unhealthy, and poor.

    One way to do this is to have the government impose a (progressive) system of taxes to finance a universal, state-run health-insurance program. This works pretty well for many developed nations, including our neighbor to the north. But there are a lot of powerful people, industries, and interest groups that would stand to lose if America adopted such a system.

    So, Obamacare attempted to deliver universal health care by heavily regulating — and subsidizing — the private insurance market, instead. Insurers on the ACA exchanges were required to include a set of essential health benefits in all of their plans — and were barred from charging people with preexisting conditions more than their (ostensibly) healthy peers. This forced the (temporarily) healthy to subsidize the sick in two ways:

    1) Healthy people who wanted to purchase some form of health insurance on the individual market could no longer opt for cheap, skimpy plans. Instead, they would be forced to pay for coverage benefits that they were unlikely to use, thereby making it possible for insurers to (profitably) provide those same benefits to people who were likely to need them, at an affordable price.

    2) Healthy people would pay premiums that overpriced their risk more broadly, so that insurers could (profitably) underprice the risk of providing affordable coverage to people with serious, predictable medical problems.

    On its face, this might look like a raw deal for the healthy. But then, healthy people can become sick people in an instant. And under this system, healthy optimists would never find themselves stuck with inadequate coverage after developing an expensive, unforeseen condition.

    Nevertheless, to induce healthy folks to foot the bill for comprehensive coverage, the law required every American to purchase health insurance or else pay a penalty. To keep this from burdening nonaffluent healthy people, Obamacare provided health insurance subsidies to middle-income folks financed by taxes on the rich. It’s a wonky, imperfect system. But it got America closer to the overwhelmingly popular, progressive goal of not letting people die from preventable illnesses because they don’t have a lot of money.

    For political expedience, conservatives have taken to claiming that they, too, share this goal — even though they’re actually hostile to the very concept of social insurance. So, they argue that getting to universal coverage requires bringing down prices; point to the various parts of Obamacare that make insurance more expensive for healthy people; ignore the fact that these same rules make insurance affordable for nonaffluent cancer patients; and then try to weaken or abolish said rules.

    This is fundamentally what Trump’s new executive order is about: creating loopholes that allow healthy people to stop subsidizing the sick. Attracting an adequate number of healthy people to the Obamacare exchanges has already been a problem — thanks, in part, to the Trump administration’s myriad efforts to sabotage the law. Depending on how the new executive order is implemented, this challenge could metastasize into a full-blown crisis.

    Loophole No. 1: Expanded Association Health Plans

    Association health plans are a means for small businesses to pool together to purchase insurance, thereby securing greater purchasing power and cheaper premiums. For example, independent farming businesses will often join together in farm bureaus, and purchase insurance through those collective entities.

    Before Obamacare, associations were free to model their national plans around the regulatory requirements of any individual state. Which is to say: A farm association with members in Alabama and New York could provide the latter with skimpy plans that would otherwise be barred by the Empire State’s benefit requirements. This appealed to small businesses with younger, healthier workforces, which used association plans to avoid subsidizing more comprehensive coverage for small business with older, sicker employees. The Affordable Care Act put an end to this state of affairs, by subjecting association health plans to the same essential health-benefit requirements as individual small businesses.

    Trump’s executive order calls on the secretary of Labor to expand the use of association health plans by making it easier for associations to form across state lines, and to band together for the exclusive purpose of purchasing health insurance. This could allow new association health plans to grow so big, they qualify as large employers — and Obamacare does not require large employers to offer plans that cover essential health benefits.

    This is the explicit purpose of Trump’s requested regulatory changes: In a press release, the White House touted that its executive order could allow small businesses to offer their workers a “broader range of insurance options at lower rates in the large group market.” In other words, it would allow younger, healthier small businesses to exit the small-group market, thereby increasing premiums for the older, sicker businesses which are left behind.

    And the Trump administration is reportedly considering an even more radical change, one that could effectively end Obamacare as we’ve known it. According to Vox, the White House may try to allow individuals to buy into cheap, skimpy association health plans. This could set off a death spiral in the individual market as healthy people flee for cheap association plans, thereby leading insurers to raise premiums (to defray the cost of covering an increasingly sick pool of enrollees), thereby leading even more healthy people to flee for cheap association plans, thereby leading insurers to raise premiums, etc., etc. …

    Loophole No. 2: Lengthened duration of short-term insurance

    Short-term health insurance policies are completely free from Obamacare’s regulatory requirements. They typically offer few services, and are designed for people who are just looking for financial protection from a medical calamity during a temporary period of unemployment. Before the Affordable Care Act, Americans could remain on short-term health insurance for up to a year. But to prevent healthy people from using the plans to avoid subsidizing the sick on the individual market, the Obama administration brought that limit down to three months.

    Trump’s order calls for expanding access to short-term plans by reversing this rule. Once again, the effect would be to bleed healthy enrollees from the Obamacare exchanges. In the most extreme scenario, the administration would make short-term plans not only available for longer periods, but also renewable.

    The effect, once again, would be to engineer a destabilizing increase in premiums for those in the individual market.

    Now, all of this depends on how Trump’s cabinet secretaries chose to implement his requests. The executive order calls on the departments of Treasury, Labor, and Health to consider rewriting the relevant regulations. But the agencies have ultimate discretion over what gets changed. And it’s unlikely that there will be any significant regulatory changes by the end of this year.

    Nonetheless, the executive order provides a blueprint for how the administration could effectively end Obamacare (at least temporarily) without passing a single piece of health-care legislation. Or, to put a finer point on the matter: It is a blueprint for increasing the number of people in our society who die from preventable illnesses because they are not wealthy.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Simple mathematics says compound interest is your friend and savior.

    People don't save for college educations for their kids. People don't save for retirement. People don't save for late in life health care. And then they want to be bailed out.
    And yet again, your financial cluelessness comes to pass again. Most people are so poorly paid in this country that they're having trouble making ends meet, let alone saving for retirement or the future in general.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Yep, those POOR insurance companies are losing money and are on the verge of collapse.

    Record profits

    But the claim that corporations are losing money on Obamacare ignores the record-breaking profits and compensation packages that health insurers continue to collect.
    Consider UnitedHealth, the nation's largest health insurer that is leaving the marketplace next year. UnitedHealth claims that Obamacare has reduced its 2016 earnings by $850 million. While they might have $850 million less than they wanted, UntedHealth’s profits are still soaring.

    In fact, UnitedHealth announced record-breaking profits in 2015, followed by an even better year this year. In July 2016, UnitedHealth celebrated revenues that quarter totalling $46.5 billion, an increase of $10 billion since the same time last year. And company filings show that UnitedHealth’s CEO Stephen J. Hemsley made over $20 million in 2015. To be fair, that is a pay cut. The previous year, in 2014, Hemsley took home $66 million in compensation.

    "If you look at our Proxy, the Board lays out in extensive detail, in great detail, the thinking behind both CEO and executive compensation,” UnitedHealth executive Don Nathan tells ConsumerAffairs.

    “At his request, Mr. Hemsley’s total compensation is below the median for CEOs in the Company’s peer group,” the proxy statement says, “even though the Board believes his performance has been outstanding."
    In other words, Hemsley is far from being the only health insurance CEO making millions of dollars every year.
    Sky-high profits

    Aetna, whose CEO Mark Bertolini reported to the Securities and Exchange Commission a $27.9 million compensation in 2015, has similarly celebrated sky-high profits. “In 2015, we reported annual operating revenue of over $60.3 billion, a record for the Company,” Aetna recently told investors.

    Aetna spokesman T.J. Crawford wrote a brief statement to ConsumerAffairs describing the company's losses under Obamacare: “As updated on our Q3 earnings call last week, we now expect a 2016 pretax loss in our individual products (on- and off-exchange) of approximately $350 million,” he said via email, otherwise directing questions to a company press release.
    Thanks to the insurance industry’s combination of record profits in recent years and increasing premiums, people on both sides of the political aisle have criticized the Affordable Care Act as being more beneficial to the insurance industry than consumers, though politicians remain deeply divided on what a good, viable alternative would entail.

    “Given this dysfunctional reality under the ACA, it’s remarkable that neither major political party has a plan to truly fix the situation,” wrote Dr. John Geyman, a professor and past president of Physicians for a National Health Program, a nonprofit advocating for a single-payer national health insurance program, in a recent column.

    Meanwhile, Amy Adams, the program officer from the California Health Care Foundation, is optimistic that many consumers will not be stuck footing the bill for next year’s premium increases. She notes that people who qualify for government subsidies under the Affordable Care Act will not actually be paying the higher premiums. And neither, of course, will the people who receive coverage through their employer.
    “I don’t think this a death spiral for the exchanges, I don’t think the sky is falling,” she says.

    https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news...es-110116.html

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    The intention is, quite simply, to make the claim "Obamacare is imploding" come true.

    In fact, I think the measures are intended to create pain. To push up premium costs (and bankruptcies) for older folks, rural folks. For people who are not poor, but whose incomes are insecure and mostly at or below the median. For people who do not have the highly sophisticated literacy skills to cut through insurance companies' intentionally opaque language, and actually find good value.

    This is intended, targeted, to disproportionately hurt the people who show up at Trump's rallies. It's intended to enrage them, and while enraged, to dupe them about why they're in pain.

    Because many likely Dem voter demographics won't be hurting as much (being urban, younger, upper middle class incomes, in jobs which often provide health insurance, and with better literacy skills to comparison shop if they buy their own). So this will be spun as "the ACA was set up by Dems to help Dems - and to hurt you. And that's exactly what's happening, and will continue to happen unless you give us enough Senate votes to repeal and replace once and for all."

    It's horrifying. But it's a very sure bet that the Trump Rally people won't believe the NY Times or CBO or CNN about why suddenly they're hurting more than ever, while those dirty b@stards in Blue states aren't hurting as much. Because those guys peddle "Fake News," eh?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    ( sigh )

    He really has an ugly soul, you know?
    Gerard>
    Everett, WA

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    This is intended, targeted, to disproportionately hurt the people who show up at Trump's rallies. It's intended to enrage them, and while enraged, to dupe them about why they're in pain
    I expect you're right, as far as there's any strategy at all. I would bet that Trump isn't even close to capable of analyzing it that thoroughly; all he wants to do protect his ego and smash anything Obama did. But there are probably people in the administration who are. It's really the sort of thing a sociopath would come up with, someone who's perfectly comfortable hurting other people for his own advantage.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 10-13-2017 at 10:15 AM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Simple mathematics says compound interest is your friend and savior.

    People don't save for college educations for their kids. People don't save for retirement. People don't save for late in life health care. And then they want to be bailed out.

    Let them save for their cake on their low paying jobs, and if they later have no cake, then they should starve.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    Let them save for their cake on their low paying jobs, and if they later have no cake, then they should starve.
    Spot on.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    ( sigh )

    He really has an ugly soul, you know?
    If he has one, it's shriveled.

    What a pitiful excuse for a human being - but his true believers will be along to say how wonderful he is. In fact, one has already.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    And he had to be dragged back into the room to actually sign the EO, he was so stoked at what he did that he forgot that one little detail

    Rick

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Deplorable
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    Let them save for their cake on their low paying jobs, and if they later have no cake, then they should starve.
    I was not limiting my comments those with low paying jobs. There are a substantial number of people who have incomes in the 6 figures who plead poverty.

    But perhaps you could look are what the poor are expected to pay under the ACA and argue as I do that they should not be paying anything for healthcare.

    Saving is not that hard. Over a 20 year period we had income that averaged just below the median. We saved 15% of our income. That was a choice we made. Others in the same situation spent their money and now want help. Or even worse they saved their money, have more than I do, and want someone else to pay their bills.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I was not limiting my comments those with low paying jobs. There are a substantial number of people who have incomes in the 6 figures who plead poverty.

    But perhaps you could look are what the poor are expected to pay under the ACA and argue as I do that they should not be paying anything for healthcare.

    Saving is not that hard. Over a 20 year period we had income that averaged just below the median. We saved 15% of our income. That was a choice we made. Others in the same situation spent their money and now want help. Or even worse they saved their money, have more than I do, and want someone else to pay their bills.
    Tell us again, how smart you are and how rich you are

    We forgot
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    And yet again, your financial cluelessness comes to pass again. Most people are so poorly paid in this country that they're having trouble making ends meet, let alone saving for retirement or the future in general.
    Yes, I worked hard at two jobs, Walmart during the day and then swing shift at Burger King. I paid the rent on time, fed and clothed my children even taking them to the emergency room for free medical care to save as much as possible. Things were really looking up and then a blowout! I had to buy new tires for my car so I could get to work, and there went my life savings - Zip!

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    Tell us again, how smart you are and how rich you are

    We forgot
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    I've said it here before...... Until the health INSURANCE industry
    Collapses, we will never get a single payer system......

    Yes, people will be hurt, some will die needlessly.....
    Seems to be the American way.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Republicare sounds right.

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Yes, I worked hard at two jobs, Walmart during the day and then swing shift at Burger King. I paid the rent on time, fed and clothed my children even taking them to the emergency room for free medical care to save as much as possible. Things were really looking up and then a blowout! I had to buy new tires for my car so I could get to work, and there went my life savings - Zip!
    I have said I am willing for those near the top - including myself, to pay for healthcare, housing, and food for those below the median. I have even said that Social Security benefits should be increased for them.

    When I speak of people saving, I don't expect those below the median to be able save. I find it interesting that those well above the median seem to plead poverty.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    It won't happen right away... but soon, those of us over 50, but not yet 65, and who aren't covered by an employer plan, are suddenly going to discover that insurance will either be unobtainable, or prohibitively expensive.

    .
    Norman, its already happened. That's why over 6 million people choose to pay the tax penalty rather than have insurance.

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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Norman, its already happened. That's why over 6 million people choose to pay the tax penalty rather than have insurance.
    Add perhaps 10 million more, peb.

    It's one thing to argue that the ACA has defects which did increase costs for some people (while providing health care coverage to many MORE millions)... it's yet another to presume that the 'smart' thing to do is to damage it even more, cause uncountable misery for MORE millions, in order to destroy it for political ideological reasons.

    This isn't a move intended to help.... it's a move intended to destroy, and the victims will be millions of ordinary people.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Add perhaps 10 million more, peb.

    It's one thing to argue that the ACA has defects which did increase costs for some people (while providing health care coverage to many MORE millions)... it's yet another to presume that the 'smart' thing to do is to damage it even more, cause uncountable misery for MORE millions, in order to destroy it for political ideological reasons.

    This isn't a move intended to help.... it's a move intended to destroy, and the victims will be millions of ordinary people.
    Yes. None of whom are the sort of folks who will be truly helped by some of the suggestions made here.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  32. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sharon, MA
    Posts
    17,574

    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    The American people speak:

    A new Kaiser Family Foundation poll finds that 71% of Americans want the Trump administration to fix the Affordable Care Act work, which is pretty much the opposite of what it’s been doing over the last week.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    Central Coast, Ca
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    17,909

    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I have said I am willing for those near the top - including myself, to pay for healthcare, housing, and food for those below the median. I have even said that Social Security benefits should be increased for them.
    Well, now we are closing in on it...
    How "near the top" are you?

    And how much do you think your social security benefit should increase?

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,937

    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Yes, I worked hard at two jobs, Walmart during the day and then swing shift at Burger King. I paid the rent on time, fed and clothed my children even taking them to the emergency room for free medical care to save as much as possible. Things were really looking up and then a blowout! I had to buy new tires for my car so I could get to work, and there went my life savings - Zip!
    Just to help you to understand:

    Most of my economic comments are jabs at the rich guys who try to pass as middle class and at the middle class guys who think their positions entitle them to more. They seem to lack a sense of how much better off they are than those below the median.

    I can tell you life at twice the median is really nice. I would like everyone to enjoy it. But some want to keep their membership a secret.
    Life is complex.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,937

    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Well, now we are closing in on it...
    How "near the top" are you?

    And how much do you think your social security benefit should increase?
    Last thing first. I think Social Security should be reserved for those who did not prosper. I don't think my wife and I should get anything. (When my wife starts her Social Security in a year or so, we will be getting $50K/year.)

    I am not as close to the top as some here. Our average income for the last 14 years was $149K/yr - that includes our SEP contributions and Social Security. Our average for the last 9 years was $165K/yr. The SEP contributions were about $25K/year. Our Social Security was about $20K/year.

    But those numbers fail to account for our unrealized investment gains. They seem to have averaged just under $200K/year for the last 6 years.
    Life is complex.

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