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Thread: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    ObamaCare was an example of exceedingly poor legislation, if nothing else. First of all, it had a huge impact on American's, yet was passed with zero bipartisan support. Secondly, despite its size, it left many,many details up to the president. Thereby greatly expanding presidential power. Well, those flaws are coming home to roost. If Trump can literally destroy ObamaCare via executive order, that should tell you something about the quality of legislation.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Simple mathematics says compound interest is your friend and savior.

    People don't save for college educations for their kids. People don't save for retirement. People don't save for late in life health care. And then they want to be bailed out.
    I had a relatively minor medical issue a few years ago and it cost $50,000. Then to remove a cyst from my arm, on the surface above the muscle and not near any major blood vessels. A very simple procedure by all accounts requiring a local anesthetic, $3000. I pay $600/month for my health insurance and they would only cover $1,000 of it. As I get older I will require more of these little procedures. My health insurance alone is 10% of my income and will rise every year until I'm 65. There's no way I will be able to afford to pay it in the future if thing don't change soon. As for a savings account; that's ridiculous. When a significant medical emergency can easily reach costs of a quarter to half a million dollars, I might as well kill myself. . . . and frankly, if I can't pay for my medical needs in the future, I will, rather than burden my loved ones. If that's the kind of system you're looking to create, you're evil.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

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  3. #38
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    ObamaCare was an example of exceedingly poor legislation, if nothing else. First of all, it had a huge impact on American's, yet was passed with zero bipartisan support. Secondly, despite its size, it left many,many details up to the president. Thereby greatly expanding presidential power. Well, those flaws are coming home to roost. If Trump can literally destroy ObamaCare via executive order, that should tell you something about the quality of legislation.
    It was all of that but it helped a lot of people afford healthcare. A better idea, the only better idea was to do single payer but the rich and connected in congress refuse to do that.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    ObamaCare was an example of exceedingly poor legislation, if nothing else. First of all, it had a huge impact on American's, yet was passed with zero bipartisan support. Secondly, despite its size, it left many,many details up to the president. Thereby greatly expanding presidential power. Well, those flaws are coming home to roost. If Trump can literally destroy ObamaCare via executive order, that should tell you something about the quality of legislation.
    I think it tells a great deal more about the cruelty and heartlessness of Donald Trump, who seems to be perfectly fine with throwing millions off their health insurance... not even for the sake of some ideological reason (Trump isn't an ideologue), but because he wants to deliver in an ill-considered campaign promise. If he really had the slightest care about the American public, he'd be working to fix Obamacare's shortcomings, NOT merely trying to make it 'fail'.... and putting the burden on all the citizens who will be hurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike
    I had a relatively minor medical issue a few years ago and it cost $50,000. Then to remove a cyst from my arm, on the surface above the muscle and not near any major blood vessels. A very simple procedure by all accounts requiring a local anesthetic, $3000. I pay $600/month for my health insurance and they would only cover $1,000 of it. As I get older I will require more of these little procedures. My health insurance alone is 10% of my income and will rise every year until I'm 65.
    Just wait.... that premium is going to go UP, for you, a consequence of Donald J Trump. Once the actuarial pool gets split between young healthy people who will now have an incentive to buy barebones policies for cheap, and older, sicker people, what do you think is going to happen to YOUR premium?
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  5. #40
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    ObamaCare was an example of exceedingly poor legislation, if nothing else. First of all, it had a huge impact on American's, yet was passed with zero bipartisan support. Secondly, despite its size, it left many,many details up to the president. Thereby greatly expanding presidential power. Well, those flaws are coming home to roost. If Trump can literally destroy ObamaCare via executive order, that should tell you something about the quality of legislation.
    And why was it not bipartisan? I wonder if you noticed that small detail?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Criticizing Obamacare for not having been passed with bipartisan support, is especially amusing... considering that the Republicans in control of BOTH houses of Congress have made no secret of their desire to pass legislation without any bipartisan support whatsoever.... only the fact that the GOP is fractionalized, itself, has prevented them from getting anything done.

    Obamacare, as flawed as it was, was an attempt to HELP the citizens of this country... 'Trumpcare', as expressed by Trump's executive actions, is designed strictly to destroy Obamacare, and in doing so, hurt ordinary Americans in the process.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  7. #42
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    ObamaCare was an example of exceedingly poor legislation, if nothing else. First of all, it had a huge impact on American's, yet was passed with zero bipartisan support. Secondly, despite its size, it left many,many details up to the president. Thereby greatly expanding presidential power. Well, those flaws are coming home to roost. If Trump can literally destroy ObamaCare via executive order, that should tell you something about the quality of legislation.
    We should all send a nice Thank You note to the evil bursteds at the Heritage Foundation for having written the danged bill to begin with.


    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    And why was it not bipartisan? I wonder if you noticed that small detail?

    Well, it wasn't because the Republican Party didn't want 10 - 20% of everyone's pre-tax income sliding through the pockets of the Insurance Industry.


    Oh, no, not that. Republicans are staunch allies of the Little Guy ( insert projectile vomit emoticon here).
    Rattling the teacups.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I had a relatively minor medical issue a few years ago and it cost $50,000. Then to remove a cyst from my arm, on the surface above the muscle and not near any major blood vessels. A very simple procedure by all accounts requiring a local anesthetic, $3000. I pay $600/month for my health insurance and they would only cover $1,000 of it. As I get older I will require more of these little procedures. My health insurance alone is 10% of my income and will rise every year until I'm 65. There's no way I will be able to afford to pay it in the future if thing don't change soon. As for a savings account; that's ridiculous. When a significant medical emergency can easily reach costs of a quarter to half a million dollars, I might as well kill myself. . . . and frankly, if I can't pay for my medical needs in the future, I will, rather than burden my loved ones. If that's the kind of system you're looking to create, you're evil.
    I have said that those in the bottom 50% should get free healthcare. You must be confusing me with someone else.

    I just don't understand why people are making claims that common medical procedures cost so much. HHS publishes a breakdown of costs. Less than .5% of the population incur over $90K of cost in any year. 80% will never incur that much cost. Those bills are typically run up by old people - Medicare insured.

    While I understand that healthcare is important, I don't see those who make claims about "we will all incur large costs" saving for their own healthcare. All they do is complain about their lack of ability to afford healthcare. I have $150K in a HSA which will cover the healthcare for my wife and myself until we die. It is not that hard to do for a large percentage of the population. They just want someone else to pay.
    Life is complex.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    health insurance industry? how about the health industry itself?
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    I used to live next to a neonatologist... he told me that about one half of his yearly gross went for malpractice insurance
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    We should all send a nice Thank You note to the evil bursteds at the Heritage Foundation for having written the danged bill to begin with.





    Well, it wasn't because the Republican Party didn't want 10 - 20% of everyone's pre-tax income sliding through the pockets of the Insurance Industry.


    Oh, no, not that. Republicans are staunch allies of the Little Guy ( insert projectile vomit emoticon here).
    nah... it was because the Republicans refused to even participate. That’s right, their hatred for Obama was so great, they refused to do their jobs- intent only on blocking everything Obama tried to do. That’s pathetic, and convicts the bunch of them. Hateful, racist bastids.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    It was all of that but it helped a lot of people afford healthcare. A better idea, the only better idea was to do single payer but the rich and connected in congress refuse to do that.
    ever wonder why "health Care" costs so much? it's actually a big percentage of the US economy... no way were going to keep up with the rest of the world if most of our money goes to... what what exactly does all this money achieve? we have significantly poorer medical outcomes on average than many countries that spend only a percentage of the money we do on health care...

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    In Finland we have single payer health care providing every citizen with roughly the same quality of care as an American with a good middle class health insurance would get.

    The total cost per capita is roughly 50% of the average health care cost per capita in USA before Obamacare.

    I am sick and tired of right wing lies. A well managed single payer health care for everybody is actually cheaper for the nation than privatized health care solely for the wealthy and the fortunate.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by heimlaga View Post
    . A well managed single payer health care for everybody is actually cheaper for the nation than privatized health care solely for the wealthy and the fortunate.
    Of COURSE it is... and every other developed nation in the world figured this out decades ago.....

    ....but blind ideology is a VERY powerful force.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  15. #50
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    ever wonder why "health Care" costs so much? it's actually a big percentage of the US economy... no way were going to keep up with the rest of the world if most of our money goes to... what what exactly does all this money achieve? we have significantly poorer medical outcomes on average than many countries that spend only a percentage of the money we do on health care...
    Good question...

    Searching out the answers will be enlightening.
    Did you happen catch the 60 minutes show on big Pharmas causation of the national opiate addiction problem?
    (They spent over $100 million lobbying for taking the teeth out of drug laws at the corporate level)

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Good question...

    Searching out the answers will be enlightening.
    Did you happen catch the 60 minutes show on big Pharmas causation of the national opiate addiction problem?
    (They spent over $100 million lobbying for taking the teeth out of drug laws at the corporate level)
    And the representative who led the charge is now Trump's drug czar. YCMTSU
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    ever wonder why "health Care" costs so much? it's actually a big percentage of the US economy... no way were going to keep up with the rest of the world if most of our money goes to... what what exactly does all this money achieve? we have significantly poorer medical outcomes on average than many countries that spend only a percentage of the money we do on health care...
    Hell probably just froze over, but I agree with Daniel. The problem is definitely not attributable to the Obamacare legislation, however. It started nearly 40 years ago, and the ACA didn't a make a lot of difference; it was mainly intended to expand coverage.

    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    It is beginning to sound like a conspiracy...
    Perhaps the aim is to drain the swamp by overflowing it.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by heimlaga View Post
    In Finland we have single payer health care providing every citizen with roughly the same quality of care as an American with a good middle class health insurance would get.

    The total cost per capita is roughly 50% of the average health care cost per capita in USA before Obamacare.

    I am sick and tired of right wing lies. A well managed single payer health care for everybody is actually cheaper for the nation than privatized health care solely for the wealthy and the fortunate.
    Well, I have decent insurance, but I can’t get out of a coding cycle that won’t allow treatment. My back injury is classified as “general lumbago”, lower back pain.
    I have two ruptured, three herniated and one bulging disc, two cracked and healed vertebrae, and physical damage to my nerves. Specifically, the sciatic nerve, which was nearly severed.
    I am coded in the same bracket as Joe Six Pack whose gut makes his back hurt when he sits in a chair all day.

    They won’t pay for treatments, but guess what I can get? All the dope I want, if I want it. The insurance companies and doctors play a game of back and forth with our lives, and we blissfully overpay for it.

    Oh. NOBODY wants to operate. Yet. Too much chance to risk it “this early”. Plus, I don’t really trust someone to be twitching my wires.

    You know what’s odd to me? We treat doctors like gods, but the people who grow our food like the dirt they work in. I love doctors and medicine and surgery, and I’m so happy we live when we do, but are the doctors going to be able to keep us alive when there’s no more food? Sorry, random mini rant question.

    I want to be healed, not wrecked by dope and greed.

    Peace,
    Robert

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Good question...

    Searching out the answers will be enlightening.
    Did you happen catch the 60 minutes show on big Pharmas causation of the national opiate addiction problem?
    (They spent over $100 million lobbying for taking the teeth out of drug laws at the corporate level)
    Was Obama the guy who signed the legislation? Was the FDA and the rest of the government agreeable?

    It is really easy to be wrong on government policy.
    Life is complex.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by heimlaga View Post
    In Finland we have single payer health care providing every citizen with roughly the same quality of care as an American with a good middle class health insurance would get.

    The total cost per capita is roughly 50% of the average health care cost per capita in USA before Obamacare.

    I am sick and tired of right wing lies. A well managed single payer health care for everybody is actually cheaper for the nation than privatized health care solely for the wealthy and the fortunate.
    Your side seems to depend on magic (I am not going to call them lies). I don't see anyone coming up with a plan to actually lower US heathcare costs by a significant amount. Yet you make a claim that it can be done.
    Life is complex.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Trump kicks off the health insurance industry collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Your side seems to depend on magic (I am not going to call them lies). I don't see anyone coming up with a plan to actually lower US heathcare costs by a significant amount. Yet you make a claim that it can be done.
    Sure you can. Cut out the Health Insurance industry in favor of single payer. My doctor's biggest complaint is the cost of the staff required to deal with the insurance companies.

    Boom. Done.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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