Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 61

Thread: BSA Girls

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Milford CT
    Posts
    815

    Default BSA Girls

    I'm not in favor....What about you??
    \"Of all the things I\'ve lost, I miss my mind the most.\"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    244

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    It's one more instance of a wonderful institution being beaten into something grotesque by those that are terribly unhappy people. And they won't be happy after they or their daughters can join the "Boy Scouts".

    I'm not in favor.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    42,909

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    I'm all for it assuming the follow the scout motto.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    42,909

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    But then there's this:


    Boy Scouts 'Exploring' Co-Ed Programming Provokes Girl Scout Ire
    August 24, 20174:59 PM ET
    AMY HELD

    The head of the Girl Scouts is accusing the Boy Scouts of America of a "covert campaign to recruit girls," as a way to boost flagging membership, according to a scathing letter published by BuzzFeed News.

    "We are confused as to why, rather than working to appeal to the 90 percent of boys who are not involved in BSA programs, you would choose to target girls," Kathy Hopinkah Hannan, Girl Scouts of the USA's national president, wrote in the letter sent to the Boy Scouts national president on Monday.

    "The Boy Scouts has been exploring the benefits of bringing Scouting to every member of the family – boys and girls," Boy Scouts of America spokeswoman Effie Delimarkos tells NPR. She says that exploration is based on "numerous requests from families," but that no decision has been made yet.

    The letter follows what The New York Times characterizes as a "tense phone conversation" between executives of both organizations "about possible substantial changes at the Boy Scouts."

    In the letter, Hopinkah Hannan said that Girl Scout leadership has tried to engage in an open dialogue with the Boy Scouts about the matter. She said she was disappointed to learn that the Boy Scouts have been "surreptitiously testing the appeal of a girls' offering to millennial parents."

    But the Boy Scouts' Delimarkos told BuzzFeed that the organization has spent months trying to engage the Girl Scouts. "We are disheartened to see the Girl Scouts pull away from the possibility of cooperation to help address the needs of today's busy families," she said.

    For more than a century, both the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts have operated as separate but similar organizations, seeking to train millions of young people to be leaders; to be brave, friendly and strong and to honor "God and country."

    Since their founding, Hopinkah Hannan says the two organizations "have worked in a respectful and complimentary manner."

    But she says the Boy Scouts' "plan" would only serve to "undercut" the Girl Scouts.

    Last spring reports began to emerge that the Boy Scouts had opened the door to the idea of bringing in girls. In May, Delimarkos told NBC News that leaders were discussing how "to meet the needs of today's families, which include dual earners and single-parent households."

    In fact, the Boy Scouts already offer several co-ed programs and have for years. They include Venturing and Exploring, which bring activities and career training to boys and girls.

    Hopinkah Hannan said a co-ed model goes against "research supporting single gender programming."

    But Delimarkos maintains that "The Boy Scouts of America believes in the benefit of single-gender programs."

    To what extent the Boy Scouts intend to welcome girls remains unclear.

    It has been a time of change for the group. In January the Boy Scouts announced the organization will accept transgender boys. In 2015, it ended a ban on gay leaders, two years after accepting gay youth.

    Delimarkos told The Times that Boy Scouts executives have reached out to the Girl Scouts since receiving the letter and hope to meet soon. "There is an opportunity for both of us to do more," she said.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...girl-scout-ire

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central MA
    Posts
    6,375

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    No. The answer is not the inclusion of girls in the Boy Scouts. Rather, it is the creation of a Girl Scouts that offers the same kinds of opportunities and experiences. The problem is that as I understand it, the current Girl Scouts program does not do that.

    What's so funny about peace love & understanding?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Northern NY
    Posts
    1,733

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    What's not to like?


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    244

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    The American Heritage Girls does.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    1,393

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Why keep girls out? They might enjoy camping, earning merit badges, growing as people and all the rest.

    I was a boy scout, there was nothing about it that required a penis.

    Some are just offended at the idea that females are people too. Or can you put together a coherent argument of why it is better to exclude half the country from this childhood opportunity?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central MA
    Posts
    6,375

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    I do think that girls should have the same opportunities as boys but I also think there is merit in gender-segregated youth organizations.

    What's so funny about peace love & understanding?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    64,317

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    42,353

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by moTthediesel View Post
    What's not to like?

    That was my first thought as well. I'm down...

    But, apparently, that's not what the OP was referring to when he typed the (admittedly ambiguous) acronym... BSA.

    As to the OP's question - I'd be against it. But I don't feel strongly about it. Mostly I'd agree with Brian Y's #9. I was also a Cub Scout and Boy Scout. Having them turned into co-ed organizations wouldn't be a terrible thing... but it would be a different thing, and not clearly better overall.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    45,246

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Scouts have been been 'co-ed' here for 25 years or more. Seems to work fine.


    Re #6. As long as women are objectified, and allow themselves to be objectified thus as a marketing tool they will never achieve meaningful equality.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hamilton New Zealand
    Posts
    4,011

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by moTthediesel View Post
    What's not to like?

    Of all the motorbikes I've ever owned, the ones I wish I could get back are my DBD32 and my Velocette 500.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    32,558

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    There are, to my mind, advantages in having some activities and organizations co-ed, but others not. Boys and Girls aren't interchangeable, for all that they like many of the same activities, eh? Development timelines are different, which will affect how one would run an activity differently to better suited 13 year old girls rather than 13 year old boys; in some cases, a mixed gender activity for 13 year olds wouldn't really hit best practices for either.

    My kids have worked at summer camps and teaching karate and swimming for years now. The girls only camps and boys only camps for the same ages have a different flavour, as do coed camps for the same age groups. Girls tend to do some aspects of karate a lot better a lot sooner, typically having more control of their limbs and more ability to focus on details of movement. Boys, frankly, are better ultimately, despite their delayed physical skills, because they are much more interested in aggression.

    As David said, a coed org isn't necessarily better or worse, but will be different. And as advocates for girls-only schools and classes for math etc observe, there is value in some gender divided activities.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    42,353

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    Of all the motorbikes I've ever owned, the ones I wish I could get back are my DBD32 and my Velocette 500.

    John Welsford
    My older brother raced a BSA in local hill climb events. It was a beast. He also rode it on the street (totally illegally). Unfortunately, he never had any such lovely companionship.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    RI ,USA
    Posts
    1,351

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianY View Post
    No. The answer is not the inclusion of girls in the Boy Scouts. Rather, it is the creation of a Girl Scouts that offers the same kinds of opportunities and experiences. The problem is that as I understand it, the current Girl Scouts program does not do that.
    We were just discussing that at home. Girls should be given the opportunities and experiences the boys have. Selling cookies ain't it.
    It is an archaic organization in that respect.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    32,558

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Maybe boys could sell cookies too?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    8,151

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    I always wanted a BSA Victor. Alas, It'll never happen.
    “What, Me Worry?". -. A. E. Newman

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    RI ,USA
    Posts
    1,351

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    I couldn't trust myself around cookies.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    9,589

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    The Campfire Girls (now simply Campfire) have been co-ed since 1975. Also non-sectarian and, as-of 1993, agnostic as to sexual orientation. They even pre-date the Girl Scouts, albeit by just a couple of years (1910 vs 1912).

    The [url="https://www.bpsa-us.org/"]Baden-Powell Service Association"] ("Traditional Scouting For Everyone!") is likewise non-sectarian, non-gender specific and inclusive: https://www.bpsa-us.org/about. They work off off Baden-Powell's 1938 The Boy Scouts Assocation: Policy, Organization and Rules (the last Baden-Powell had a part in, as he died in 1941), suitably updated to suit their needs of inclusiveness.

    The BSA is... a little behind the times.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    64,303

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    camping? it sure would curtail finishing a joke while peeing in the bushes
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    3,702

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianY View Post
    No. The answer is not the inclusion of girls in the Boy Scouts. Rather, it is the creation of a Girl Scouts that offers the same kinds of opportunities and experiences. The problem is that as I understand it, the current Girl Scouts program does not do that.
    Yes, there's big resistance in the girl scouts to snipe hunts and military-mentality indoctrination.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    42,353

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Maybe boys could sell cookies too?
    At the time, I'd have loved that.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    East Quogue,NY
    Posts
    13,759

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    I was a Boy Scout ( Life Scout). My youngest daughter is a Girl Scout. Her troop performs similar civic activity and community service, but there is no emphasis woodcraft and camping. They do, " camp," but it involves a cabin or lean-to, not a tent; they were driven in, they did not hike there; cooking is done in a campground cafeteria not over a campfire; the latrine is a restroom, not a ditch they dig themselves.

    What they do that my Boy Scout Troop didn't, is attend concerts, plays and other cultural events.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    8,151

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by cbcc View Post
    It's one more instance of a wonderful institution being beaten into something grotesque by those that are terribly unhappy people. And they won't be happy after they or their daughters can join the "Boy Scouts".

    I'm not in favor.
    Are females bad? Will they do harm? Where does "terribly unhappy people" come from?
    Males and females learning and working together is "grotesque"?
    Are you some sort of Saudi princ?
    “What, Me Worry?". -. A. E. Newman

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    45,246

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    My nephews Scout Troop's girls have never sold a 'cookie' in the US model. OTOH at the Group fete sausages, cakes, scones tea and coffee were on offer along with damper and johnny cakes.
    The organisation seems to be much less military in it's operation than the US seems, at least his troop does. But then there is a much healthier attitude to flags and such here it seems to me. There are 4 generations of cub/scouts/scouters in our family.

    There are the girl guides, a sister organisation, but I don't know how there numbers are now. They were a much more 'traditional' organisation as to women's roles when I had any contact years ago. I imagine, like scouts, there is a lot of competition for attention, and a shortage of scouters as there always was.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Everett, WA
    Posts
    25,381

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Rode a pal's 441 Victor a lot one summer. Very cool bike IMHO. Classic thumper.
    Gerard>
    Everett, WA

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    42,353

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Rode a pal's 441 Victor a lot one summer. Very cool bike IMHO. Classic thumper.
    Yes... but did it come with ALL the accessories??

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Shore, Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,932

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Are females bad? Will they do harm? Where does "terribly unhappy people" come from?
    Males and females learning and working together is "grotesque"?
    Are you some sort of Saudi princ?

    you sound "terribly unhappy"

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    42,353

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    8,151

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    This is the Victor I had in mind:

    “What, Me Worry?". -. A. E. Newman

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hamilton New Zealand
    Posts
    4,011

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Had one of those for a while, a girl as well.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    45,246

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Blimey David (#30) how old is that? It's risky by even today's standards!

    (and I mean risky, not risqué!)

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Bangor, ME
    Posts
    22,230

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    Dear fellows. You are forgetting one of the current ideals of the neo-marxist, post-modern model...there is no such thing as gender. Get with the program, will ya? I say current, because God only knows what shibboleth of the "patriarchy" they'll glom onto next week! This is merely the grievance de jour.
    So many questions, so little time.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    32,558

    Default Re: BSA Girls

    I don't think the models on the bikes got that post-modern memo. Or maybe they just deconstructed it.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •