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Thread: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    It seems to me they weren't denied service because of their beliefs, they were denied service because of their actions.
    Did you view the video?

    Which actions?

    Being in possession of a pamphlet that somebody didn't like?

    Constable Savage comes to mind . . . . . . . 'wearing a loud shirt in a built-up area during the hours of darkness' . . . 'looking at me in a funny way'.

    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    are we still in the 1950's? does anyone think "whites only" water fountains would make a comeback?

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Did you view the video?
    No. I generally don't do video.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Which actions? Being in possession of a pamphlet that somebody didn't like?
    No, distributing hate literature in front of an establishment (and possibly within an establishment) owned and operated by a member of one of the groups targeted by the hate literature.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    are we still in the 1950's? does anyone think "whites only" water fountains would make a comeback?
    In some places, yes.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    are we still in the 1950's? does anyone think "whites only" water fountains would make a comeback?
    I suspect that there are still a considerable number of people who wish it were so.

    More to the point, do you actually support the idea that those who operate public accommodations should be permitted to discriminate, for any reason? Do you believe that the 1964 Civil Rights Act was unconstitutional?
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  6. #76
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    are we still in the 1950's? does anyone think "whites only" water fountains would make a comeback?
    Oh, come on. The "put the white back in the White House" crowd, and a good chunk of the Trump supporters out there, would wet themselves with glee if Jim Crow came back, and they'd be quite happy to make it happen.

    The greatest legacy of Obama's presidency might well be the way it brought the USA's festering racism out into the open.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    ^ And enforce it with their camo'd AR-15's...
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    ...with bump stocks.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    ^ And enforce it with their camo'd AR-15's...
    Don't forget the bump stocks.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  10. #80
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    This is an issue that I'd like to understand better. Where was it hidden? In a briefcase, or out for public view and distribution. I don't see how or why the customers could have hidden it very well.
    You are at risk of being silly. Hidden in a briefcase?
    Seriously?

    How about tucked into one of these so it fell out when a customer lifted the menue out?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    “They were ready with that camera,” the owner wrote. “I was baptized Catholic, Roman Catholic actually, I’ve been to a few bible studies, read the entire book, more than once. To my understanding, and to speak in the religious vernacular; these people are working for Satan. The great trickster has deluded them into believing that hate is love, that rage is peace, and that lies are truth. The God I knew, the Jesus I was taught about would absolutely never ever print a poster with a hideous dead baby representation at ‘what was clearly meant to insinuate’ at the hands of gays … suffice to the say the poster was gross, and the text on the back? Holy cow, whoever wrote that is in a lot of pain. I spoke to them in their own language.”
    We don't know how lucky we are....

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    I suspect that there are still a considerable number of people who wish it were so.

    More to the point, do you actually support the idea that those who operate public accommodations should be permitted to discriminate, for any reason? Do you believe that the 1964 Civil Rights Act was unconstitutional?

    honestly, i don't know. discrimination is obviously bad. but i have mixed feelings about telling a private business owner that they have to interact with everyone no matter what. if they own the building and own the business... why can't they do whatever they want in their own establishment?

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    No. I generally don't do video.



    No, distributing hate literature in front of an establishment (and possibly within an establishment) owned and operated by a member of one of the groups targeted by the hate literature.
    So since you didn't watch it, you are not in possession of the evidence therein and thus you comment from a lesser informed position.

    Is 'pro-life' literature is 'hate literature'? [FYI I am Pro-choice]

    Is it against the law to distribute 'pro-life' pamphlets on the public sidewalk/pavement?

    Do 'pro-life' target/hate homosexuals or coffee shop owners?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    if they own the building and own the business... why can't they do whatever they want in their own establishment?
    Because when all of the advantaged people in a society "do whatever they want" and discriminate against the disadvantaged, the result is systemic​ discrimination, and that is bad for people.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    How about tucked into one of these so it fell out when a customer lifted the menue out?

    Was it or were they?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Was it or were they?
    Give him a call why don't you?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    So since you didn't watch it, you are not in possession of the evidence therein and thus you comment from a lesser informed position.
    If I have made a claim that is not in evidence, please feel free to point it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Is 'pro-life' literature is 'hate literature'?
    It can be, and from what I have read of this case, it sounds like it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Is it against the law to distribute 'pro-life' pamphlets on the public sidewalk/pavement?
    That depends upon legislation specific to the jurisdiction. In some places, it may be, particularly if - as previously noted - the pamphlets constitute hate literature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Do 'pro-life' target/hate homosexuals or coffee shop owners?
    Again, as previously noted, it appears that the literature distributed by the group in question did​ target gays. In other words, it was hate literature.

    What are you doing about it?




  18. #88
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    You are at risk of being silly. Hidden in a briefcase?
    Seriously?

    How about tucked into one of these so it fell out when a customer lifted the menue out?
    I'm not being silly. I am trying to see if the owner overreacted. I mean, "f*** my old boyfriend right here" is a bit of an overreaction, don't you think?

    Do you know that is where it was hidden? I saw no reference to it in the quote. I would genuinely like to know. I think it's an important question.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Post from Bedlam Coffee, as found on Zomato:

    Bedlam Coffee
    This business is in the news and as such many reviews are in response to that news item, not a good representation of the products or services offered here.

    This response is posted for people that like to see both sides before they make a decision.

    Just to be clear, these are the people that were thrown out [ thetenthmark.com ] visit the page, look at the hateful disgusting things they are about. They came in in hopes of disruption (in their own words-BUT WE HAVE COME TO INVADE YOUR SAFE SPACE.)
    The pictures of aborted fetus' at the hands of gays that we found hidden in the store are possibly the most offensive images I've ever seen. They spent the day putting stickers on everything they could in the neighborhood. the hypocrisy of these groups is truly profound.

    No one was or ever would be thrown out because they were Christian. Members of this group were thrown out of more than just here this weekend. We were just more colorful I guess. They could have simply left, but chose to challenge the owner who answered those challenges in kind. There's been a sign on the door for years that reads "No @$$holes" If you feel the need to get in people's faces about who they are or what they do that means your an @$$hole. You wanna stand outside and preach that garbage, go right ahead. But you won't use this place to coordinate your rampages.
    PS to that group, why don't you show the WHOLE video? I mean you had your phone out before I opened the door so...

    Here's what they did in Seattle parks.
    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...n-12237965.php

    And Hey while we've got such a large audience at the moment...
    There are a lot of great groups out there doing some great work, here are just a few.

    Planned Parenthood
    https://www.plannedparenthood.org/pl...donate-locally

    Safe Place
    http://www.nationalsafeplace.org/

    It Get's Better
    https://secure.itgetsbetter.org/page/contribute/default

    Mary's Place
    http://www.marysplaceseattle.org/

    Plymouth Housing
    https://www.plymouthhousing.org/how-...n-help/donate/

    St Jude's
    https://www.stjude.org/

    And if your still reading then heck we'll toss a commercial for the shop on here, it's your dime.

    Bedlam Coffee in Beautiful Belltown
    Come check out our extensive collection of board games.
    Check out our variety of Mochas, The Rose Mocha is a particular fave of many. Or the Nutella Mocha if you really wanna bust out. Larger than average selection of loose leaf teas too. Fresh locally source Dairy and All the best milk alternatives, including Coconut and Almond.
    Everybody at Bedlam is from the neighborhood so feel free to ask us where to go for a drink or a bite to eat, we'll keep you right here in Belltown and you'll never want for anything else.
    Are you a church group planning a charitable event? We've got a meeting room you can use. Two in fact. (don't believe The hype, you are in deed welcome, geesh.)
    Our company has been active in the community for Over 8 years. And will continue to be, not terribly political but kinda outspoken on hate.


    "If what you do is done in love, then we are brothers."
    I added red for emphasis, btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    If I have made a claim that is not in evidence, please feel free to point it out.



    It can be, and from what I have read of this case, it sounds like it was.



    That depends upon legislation specific to the jurisdiction. In some places, it may be, particularly if - as previously noted - the pamphlets constitute hate literature.



    Again, as previously noted, it appears that the literature distributed by the group in question did​ target gays. In other words, it was hate literature.

    Amazing. LOL

    I won't bother engage further. Have a great day.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    The pictures of aborted fetus' at the hands of gays that we found hidden in the store are possibly the most offensive images I've ever seen.
    If that is accurate, then the correct way to deal with it is to quietly and calmly destroy the material, ask the patron if they put it there, and ask them to leave quietly if they did because their actions are unfair to the other patrons. You keep it about the patrons and not about yourself. Either way, report it to the police. You don't make a scene. You don't bring up irrelevant remarks about your own sexual orientation. You don't shout about having sex with your boyfriend in the store.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Dont make a scene?


    Worst advice ever
    We don't know how lucky we are....

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    Post from Bedlam Coffee, as found on Zomato:

    I added red for emphasis, btw.
    I am not in that area, and unlikely to be, but if I was I would not be giving his business any custom whatsoever or any recommendation either.

    I would have invited him to 'f' his boyfriend as he suggested. Bet you he would not have done so.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I'm not being silly. I am trying to see if the owner overreacted. I mean, "f*** my old boyfriend right here" is a bit of an overreaction, don't you think?

    Do you know that is where it was hidden? I saw no reference to it in the quote. I would genuinely like to know. I think it's an important question.
    No, we neither of us know where they were hidden. But if you wanted to hide leaflets that you knew the proprietor would refuse you permission to post, that would be a better strategy than leaving a briefcase full under every table, yes?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    No, we neither of us know where they were hidden. But if you wanted to hide leaflets that you knew the proprietor would refuse you permission to post, that would be a better strategy than leaving a briefcase full under every table, yes?
    If that were my intent.

    My point is that the owner became hysterical, so I am not inclined to accept his unsubstantiated and incomplete statement that they were hidden for the other customers to find. I think the details are important.

    I think the owner is about as big a nut job as the customers in question. I don't want to have anything to do with any of them.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    If that is accurate, then the correct way to deal with it is to quietly and calmly destroy the material, ask the patron if they put it there, and ask them to leave quietly if they did because their actions are unfair to the other patrons. You keep it about the patrons and not about yourself. Either way, report it to the police. You don't make a scene. You don't bring up irrelevant remarks about your own sexual orientation. You don't shout about having sex with your boyfriend in the store.

    + 100
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by seanz View Post
    Dont make a scene?

    Worst advice ever
    Well, it's certainly the most adult advice so far.

    The customers wanted to create a scene. Either they wanted another customer to be shocked by the literature or they wanted the owner to go nuts in front of everyone. They got their wish.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Hmmm, let's see if I can add any further documentation for your consideration. We should take a look at the flier. Might as well see if there's something in there that would anger someone who is gay.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    Hmmm, let's see if I can add any further documentation for your consideration.
    But are you the real Yeadon, or Yeadon's sock puppet?

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    If that were my intent.

    My point is that the owner became hysterical, so I am not inclined to accept his unsubstantiated and incomplete statement that they were hidden for the other customers to find. I think the details are important.

    I think the owner is about as big a nut job as the customers in question. I don't want to have anything to do with any of them.
    So in addition to being an hysterical gay nut-job he is a liar who makes stuff up? You really have taken a down on him have you not.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  31. #101
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    So in addition to being an hysterical gay nut-job he is a liar who makes stuff up? You really have taken a down on him have you not.
    I am amazed that you have never experienced a person, generally of good intent, who loses their perspective, makes assumptions and misrepresentations in good faith, and winds up hysterical. God knows I have experienced them.

    A coffee shop owner who shouts in front of other customers about "f****** my old boyfriend right here while you watch" is not reliable in anything else he says. He has lost control and I would throw my coffee away and go to another store.

    By the way, this has nothing to do with him being gay. I don't want a straight store owner having sex with his wife of 40 years right in front of me, either, and I would not trust one who shouted that he would.

    In the words of a former project manager, "A-hole one, meet a-hole two." Both are a-holes and I would not trust either.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Amazing.
    Sorry nuance is so difficult for you. It must be nice, living in a black and white world, but mine is almost entirely shades of grey.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    No, the shop owner should not have unloaded on them. He should have calmly and matter-of-factly informed them that they might better like the coffee elsewhere, maybe in their home neighbourhood, because the coffee that they would receive in his shop would be cold, bitter, black and service is shoddy and very, very slow. <wink,grin>
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I am amazed that you have never experienced a person, generally of good intent, who loses their perspective, makes assumptions and misrepresentations in good faith, and winds up hysterical. God knows I have experienced them.

    A coffee shop owner who shouts in front of other customers about "f****** my old boyfriend right here while you watch" is not reliable in anything else he says. He has lost control and I would throw my coffee away and go to another store.

    By the way, this has nothing to do with him being gay. I don't want a straight store owner having sex with his wife of 40 years right in front of me, either, and I would not trust one who shouted that he would.

    In the words of a former project manager, "A-hole one, meet a-hole two." Both are a-holes and I would not trust either.
    Bottom line is, whilst you are not being hysterical, you are making stuff up.

    There is one hell of a lot of speculation in the absence of facts in this thread. We have only three direct quotes, one of which was filtered by the media, The other 100 posts are just opinion.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Christian activists booted from Seattle coffee shop: ‘I’m gay. You have to leave’

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Sorry nuance is so difficult for you. It must be nice, living in a black and white world, but mine is almost entirely shades of grey.

    Yes, it is nice living in a black and white world.

    Please accept my sympathies of living in a grey word.

    Sounds like you need more sunshine.

    Hopefully you don't suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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