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Thread: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VIDEO)

  1. #526

    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    To state the obvious: commercial yards are responding to a very different set of incentives. They are either meeting a quote, or being paid by the hour -- either way, they have a strong incentive to complete things well, but quickly. Leo is being paid by viewers and sponsors, who enjoy the content that painstaking labor produces. So he has succeeded in putting himself in an enviable position: he clearly enjoys doing very careful work, his clients are very happy to support his attention to detail, and he gets to keep the product of all this effort at the end. It's brilliant.

  2. #527
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    It took two men 5 weeks to build one of these 31 footers, working 6-day weeks in daylight hours.
    Attachment 73582
    They spiled each plank, but planked up from the keel and down from the shear, edge setting each plank to ensure a tight fit. That would have been quicker than planking in four zones. The shutter planks were driven home with a sledge.
    Building new is sooo much quicker and easier than taking out a component, copying it and replacing it without the rest of the hull falling down around your ears.
    Fascinating! Picking a time of year with 10 hours of daylight yields 600 man hours. My guess is that total was to get the boat launched-hull and deck complete, painted, etc. And then came the interior work, the spars and rigging?
    Even so, 600 hours is moving right along! It sounds like they must have built several of this model- so lofting, and backbone patterning, and Molds were already complete and ready to use.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    The top yards in NZ in the early 1900's turned out racing yachts at that pace ready to go to the client.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    The video lifting the boat off the keel is quit intense.
    And at #33 I find my much missed friend Sibbo.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Schweiss View Post
    Fascinating! Picking a time of year with 10 hours of daylight yields 600 man hours. My guess is that total was to get the boat launched-hull and deck complete, painted, etc. And then came the interior work, the spars and rigging?
    Even so, 600 hours is moving right along! It sounds like they must have built several of this model- so lofting, and backbone patterning, and Molds were already complete and ready to use.
    Not entirely so.
    They were rigged on the launching trolley on the beach before floating off complete. Outfit was basic in that boat, benches and a stove in the foc'sl, with lockers under the bench seats.
    Plate 74.jpg
    This is a bigger nobby at 36' so might have taken a week or so longer.
    I chatted with a retired shipwright from the boatyard. He described several tricks and efficiencies used there.
    There was no casual gossip or chit-chat. Apart from greetings and enquiries about the well-being of the family members first thing, there was little talk. There was rarely need to call for help. The workers knew from the sound of the saw when a colleague needed a hand moving a trestle. Another trick was to drive oval wire nails along the line when marking a plank. When planing the plank to the line you could feel and hear the plane clicking over the nail holes as it came down to the line. Another saving was that the scrieve board was sawn up to make the floor board of the cockpit and cabin sole. They also only made four or five frames on the scrieve boards, the rest were lifted from the inside of battens nailed round the hull using a chain to lift the shapes.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  6. #531
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Leo had no idea that Tally Ho would take this long, but as the Youtube phenomenon took hold, it turned out fine, in fact, for the better.
    But he is doing far more work than building a new Tally Ho,and I'm not talking about the film making, which romanticises the actual labor and worry, but the time spent going backward and sideways.
    If we could go back in time, and push Tally Ho aside 30 feet ,and begin the New Tally Ho ,and fix the old,we might have two of em.
    Someone like me could have gone in there with a coupl o barrels of WEST and 6 or 7 thousand bf of AYC and rebuilt TH in a year .Lammed in new,smaller frames,re use the rivets,strip plank the deck...
    Remember a single 29 year old built this in 1500 hours,

  7. #532
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    The work Leo’s done in all facets of the Tally Ho project and its YouTube channel is impressive, inspiring, and a testament to his skill and work ethic. I find the criticism of his timeline and the “why, when I was a young man...” rhetoric to be tiresome in the extreme.

  8. #533
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    If you build a boat with different techniques/materials it's not the same boat. We could have scanned the hull shape, had metal components numerically cut and welded up the hull and deck in a year also. Clearly not the same boat.

    Cheers,
    Mark

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    But, it will be.

  10. #535
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark0 View Post
    If you build a boat with different techniques/materials it's not the same boat. We could have scanned the hull shape, had metal components numerically cut and welded up the hull and deck in a year also. Clearly not the same boat.

    Cheers,
    Mark
    Two minutes in.


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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    I used the "roof of Thesius" argument with the local building inspector years ago when replacing (ahem...repairing) a garage roof. It was our first and last conversation.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by John Husky View Post
    The work Leo’s done in all facets of the Tally Ho project and its YouTube channel is impressive, inspiring, and a testament to his skill and work ethic. I find the criticism of his timeline and the “why, when I was a young man...” rhetoric to be tiresome in the extreme.

    Was it just MY rhetoric that you found tiring in the extreme, or is the story of long gone folks building boats quickly okay?
    You take my comments of Leo as criticism? We are here to talk about boats, are we not?
    Does Lin Pardey come here to talk about boats? no she does not . She comes here to sell books, or to advertize a talk she is giving somewhere in the world. That would not work out so well for you or me.
    Does Leo come here and spend time to answer questions about ...whatever? no he does not. He came here to advertize his Youtubes.
    I like to think I've helped a few people with a few things over the years here on the WBF. Might ruffle a few feathers ,hurt a few feelers with a type of honesty I practice.(often mistaken for rudeness).
    And I'm cool with being thought of as a bit brash or rude now and then...but rhetorical...na ah.
    bruce

  13. #538
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Thad View Post
    But, it will be.
    I'm good with the line of thought of considering each piece could have been changed, but now doing it all at once. Changing the type of construction method would not have allowed that.....

  14. #539
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Not the ballast and maybe other pieces. The last lines that trails off . . . to what?

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Several things to keep in mind about the pace of Leo's project:
    - A 60 foot yacht is 8 times the mass and volume of a 30 foot yacht.
    - For a long time, Leo was working mostly by himself. Only now does he have another trained shipwright (Pete Stein) working along side him long term. Almost everyone else has been a volunteer trainee.
    - Leo has no front office working out the supply chain of materials. He has had to source all his own timber and fastenings and do most of the milling himself. He is making most of the fastenings from plain rod.
    - There are no patterns except for the ones that he has made for this project.
    - Leo has been sharing very generously on YouTube. Even if you are not a patron, you can watch the videos for free.

  16. #541
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark0 View Post
    I'm good with the line of thought of considering each piece could have been changed, but now doing it all at once. Changing the type of construction method would not have allowed that.....
    Tricky that. Eric Tabarly completely reskinned Pen Duick with GRP, but she was still considered to be the same yacht from the Fife drawing board.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    " A 60 foot yacht is 8 times the mass and volume of a 30 foot yacht."
    that depends...some 30 footers are heavier than some 60 footers.
    Tally Ho is 48', about 30 tons I think.

  18. #543
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    That's the first semester of Phil 101 in a single on-line video.

  19. #544
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Leo!
    I love your project and the YouTube posts. I learn something new every time I watch and especially did the music you use.

    To all you fellow wooden boat enthusiasts: become a patreon for Leo's project!

    Cheers!
    Eric

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Whatever the arguments are about what sort of build it is, I really don't care.
    I'm just fascinated by Leo's skill and dedication to this project.
    At the current rate of work, it's going to take many more years to see completion.
    Remember, it's been said that when a boat has been planked, it's only one third finished.
    I'm looking forward to just watching the process.
    It'll probably be launched the same day as Jim Ledger's catboat!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  21. #546
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Planking


  22. #547
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Excellent. Some quality after dinner YouTube to look forward to.

    Pete

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Another fascinating update from Leo. But he did seem a bit defensive at one point -- noting that what we see in the videos is a small fraction of what gets done in the shipyard. And he also found that the planks edge-set easily enough that the patternmaking isn't required.

    He also talked about the cost of the bronze. He seems to be eager to answer the questions that pop up out here in the wilds of the interwebs. So the average cost of each casting was about $700. Not bad at all for custom work of that quality.

    And they soldier on....
    -Dave

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    He was defensive about the scarph vs butt block situation too. I hope it doesn't descend into a food fight with Steve and Alix. They both seem to have a cadre of cheerleaders who would want nothing more.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    He was defensive about the scarph vs butt block situation too. I hope it doesn't descend into a food fight with Steve and Alix. They both seem to have a cadre of cheerleaders who would want nothing more.
    His arguments about not using scarfs is sound. Replacing plank down the line is a good one. But except for the single top timbers, he has plenty of frame futtock to aim butt fastenings at.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  26. #551
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    I didnít hear it as being defensive but educational, but that could be my own bias. From everything I have seen so far Leo puts a lot of thought into his decisions and usually shares the reasoning behind it.

    I am curious as to why pneumatic rivet guns, like used in aircraft work, arenít used for riveting. Seems like it would make much faster and less tedious work of the riveting. Anyone?
    Tom

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Having seen how well the pneumatic hammer can work on large rivets, both driving them through and riveting, I have thought about recommending it. He isn't set up with adequate "air", maybe.

  28. #553
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    I didn’t hear it as being defensive but educational, but that could be my own bias. From everything I have seen so far Leo puts a lot of thought into his decisions and usually shares the reasoning behind it.

    I am curious as to why pneumatic rivet guns, like used in aircraft work, aren’t used for riveting. Seems like it would make much faster and less tedious work of the riveting. Anyone?
    Pneumatic rivets were certainly used by a number of builders on the Jersey shore. I have heard of pneumatic needle guns being modified for the use. One consideration is certainly that a pneumatic tool can easily bend the shank in the wood where you can't see it.

    Here is Charles Hankins in Lavallette N.J.







  29. #554
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Thad View Post
    Having seen how well the pneumatic hammer can work on large rivets, both driving them through and riveting, I have thought about recommending it. He isn't set up with adequate "air", maybe.
    Which could be a good thing. Whindy Hammers are banned in UK shipbuilding as they cause vibration white finger.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  30. #555
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    He was defensive about the scarph vs butt block situation too. I hope it doesn't descend into a food fight with Steve and Alix. They both seem to have a cadre of cheerleaders who would want nothing more.
    I assumed he was just explaining it to the cadre of armchair boatbuilders who doubtless ask a million "why dontcha" questions. That didn't strike me as defensive though - he often takes the time to explain how and why things have been done a certain way.

    Pete

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Choosing the motor.



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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Exactly.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    I can see the attraction of that system. But I can't imagine what the schematic will look like for the electrics. There's going to be one hellacious bundle of wires in that boat before it's done. AC and DC systems at various voltages, ins and outs all over the place. Leo talked about the security of having a simple diesel engine to rely on even if the electrics go south -- but will that engine start with a hand crank? Or will it still have a starter motor tied to a dedicated start battery? I also wonder if that big battery bank will allow a smaller fuel tank - is there at least some small economy to be had?

    But yeah, it's one slick setup.
    -Dave

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    -- but will that engine start with a hand crank?
    Is that even an option? My boat uses a 6hp outboard, my marine diesel experience level is very low but as there is probably one in my future I do try to pay attention.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Hand-starting diesels used to be a thing, but it has to be part of the design from the beginning: most common was to provide a way to keep an exhaust valve open while turning the crank, usually with a heavy flywheel to help, then once you are spinning the valve is allowed to close. Thats for old engines, as the quest for mere power at lighter weight means that hand starting is not part of the equation. So, no, the Beta won't have a hand start option.
    But I think that's part of Leo's logic: how to provide a little engine power in close quarters if the main isnt playing nice, and an electric on standbye will do that. The complexity of wiring and switching (as referenced above) is an issue, but its all a compromise. I think that if Leo can raise and commit the money, it will be a big net plus for TH.
    But thats just what I think

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