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Thread: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VIDEO)

  1. #1051
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark0 View Post
    No, my mistake ! It isn't fixed... I was just surprised it's 4 bladed.
    Well, half right, 4 bladed.
    Feathering, but can be fixed in some way.
    There was a design with the blades free to rotate in the hub (Autoprop), and offset so that they adopted the optimum position to drive the boat.
    I don't think that they would extract power from the water flow, though.
    This is what the company's website says about pitch controls:
    Independently adjustable external pitch control. Forward and reverse pitches can be changed in just seconds — even underwater.

    Benefits: Custom fine tuning (in micrometer-small increments) of reverse thrust vs. prop-walk. (For most owners, eliminating prop walk is more important than maximizing reverse thrust.)
    VARIPROP allows you to customize that balance for optimum control, maneuverability and safety. Independent fine tuning of forward thrust means that VARIPROP delivers the best possible performance (speed, thrust, fuel economy) in forward without compromising reverse performance – and vice versa
    Looks as though you need a mask, snorkel and Allen key.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  2. #1052
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    This is from the comments on the video ' Machining the Driveline & installing an unusual propeller'

    "There are internal gears inside the hub that engage when the boat is put into forward or reverse, so depending on the direction of shaft torque, the blades rotate to a thrusting position. With the transmission in neutral and therefore no torque on the driveshaft, the water pressure on the blades pushes them into a neutral position." "It will only feather from forward thrust. If in reverse pitch the water pressure keeps it in reverse hence the ability to re-gen. It's simply a function of an offset hinge point."

  3. #1053
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Peat View Post
    This is from the comments on the video ' Machining the Driveline & installing an unusual propeller'

    "There are internal gears inside the hub that engage when the boat is put into forward or reverse, so depending on the direction of shaft torque, the blades rotate to a thrusting position. With the transmission in neutral and therefore no torque on the driveshaft, the water pressure on the blades pushes them into a neutral position." "It will only feather from forward thrust. If in reverse pitch the water pressure keeps it in reverse hence the ability to re-gen. It's simply a function of an offset hinge point."

    This made no sense,
    It will only feather from forward thrust. If in reverse pitch the water pressure keeps it in reverse hence the ability to re-gen.
    but from the operating manual
    THE BEST WAY TO FEATHER THE PROPELLER IN THE SAIL POSITION IS:
    VARIPROP sail position with mechanical gear-box:
    + Power at 3 to 4 knots in forward.
    +Stop the engine and engage the transmission in reverse to stop the freewheeling of the shaft.
    If the propeller is not feathered in the sail position the shaft will freewheel like with a fixed propeller.
    In that case start the engine again and repeat the steps above.
    Once the prop is feathered , it is better to shift the transmission to neutral.
    DO NOT stop the engine while it turns in reverse. In this case the blades will stay in the reverse position and
    will not feather. You can actually use this feature to drive a shaft generator.
    I can't see it being water pressure from the boat's motion holding the blade in position, there must be a feature of the gearing in the hub. Maybe the assembly moves aft in the hub to engage some sort of brake or locking mechanism.

    All in all, a clever piece of engineering.
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 10-01-2022 at 05:06 AM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  4. #1054
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    This made no sense,

    but from the operating manual

    I can't see it being water pressure from the boat's motion holding the blade in position, there must be a feature of the gearing in the hub. Maybe the assembly moves aft in the hub to engage some sort of brake or locking mechanism.

    All in all, a clever piece of engineering.
    My folks have one of these props on their motorsailer. It does exactly what you said, when you spin it in the forward direction the water pushes the blades (together on the gear) until they hit the stop (which you set). You have to be gentle going to reverse because the opposite rotation through the water makes them turn the other way and land on the reverse stops. If you roar and snort while maneuvering you can damage the internals.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Very early on he explains that the hybrid motor system is designed to charge the battery bank from the prop. No mention of what feed rate is expected. But that seems to be it -- no mention of a separate diesel genset, which many boats this size carry. I suppose if there's not enough wind to sail fast enough to spin the prop, they'll be firing up the engine for both propulsion and electric generation.
    -Dave

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Very early on he explains that the hybrid motor system is designed to charge the battery bank from the prop. No mention of what feed rate is expected. But that seems to be it -- no mention of a separate diesel genset, which many boats this size carry. I suppose if there's not enough wind to sail fast enough to spin the prop, they'll be firing up the engine for both propulsion and electric generation.
    Yes, Leo did also say that 15 minutes of engine time in harbor would recharge the batteries.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    He also has the option of feathering the prop for least resistance. I'll bet that he uses that mode more than he expects.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Yes, Leo did also say that 15 minutes of engine time in harbor would recharge the batteries.
    That doesn't pass the sniff test. Just ballpark figures, if the electric motor and battery bank are sized to propel the vessel for a significant amount of time, and the diesel is maybe twice as much power as needed to propel the vessel, then at best you get two minutes of electric run time for every minute of charge time. I bet in reality it is more like 1:1. So 15 minutes of charging will run the lights and systems but certainly wouldn't fill an empty battery bank.

    1:1 is still really good compared to lead acid.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Jon, I took it as meaning: It would recharge the batteries with the electric motor out of the equation.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Victron batteries are made from Winston LIFEPO4 cells - which specifies 0.5C charge rate allowed up to 3C (with temp control). I'm sure the system bank would be sized for the generating capacity and it seems silly to try to push more than 0.5C, it would be bad engineering to reduce that margin.

    I'm setting up our boat with a prop shaft generator (It should produce similar power to the system on Talley Ho under sail). This is where the hybrid system will shine- I figure we will be able to generate 400W or so while under sail. This will keep the lights / fridge / chart plotter on easily. Much better on a traditional boat than a massive solar arch.

    Cheers,
    Mark

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    He has a 40kWh battery bank, and a parallel diesel-electric propulsion, 85PS/20kW. In diesel generator mode (wich it can do with or without the prop turning) it has a capacity of 10kW. The hydrogenation production depends on how fast the prop turns at a given speed under load.

    Theoretical electric range is 2h at full power, but it will probably be used mostly for maneuvers and quiet motorsailing assistance, so actual range will be several hours more.
    Theoretical recharging time with the diesel is 4h, but that's only if the batteries are flat.

  12. #1062
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Just a little bit of Tally Ho
    Tender to Tally Ho Episode #136
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    That is a pretty sweet dinghy.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    I've nothing against ply/fiberglass boats (I've built five glued lap boats) but I just can't see this boat on Tally-Ho.
    Everything on Tally-Ho is 100% traditional and for Leo to choose this dinghy seems a bit off. He explained why he doesn't want a traditional boat, but why not something that at least looks traditional?
    Also, this tender seems a bit small for a boat the size of Tally-Ho. It's a three-person dinghy at best and a crew wanting to go ashore will be bigger than that.
    Why not a 14-footer hanging on davits off the stern?
    He did mention that this will be "one" of Tally-Ho's tenders, so time will tell.
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I've nothing against ply/fiberglass boats (I've built five glued lap boats) but I just can't see this boat on Tally-Ho.
    Everything on Tally-Ho is 100% traditional and for Leo to choose this dinghy seems a bit off. He explained why he doesn't want a traditional boat, but why not something that at least looks traditional?
    Also, this tender seems a bit small for a boat the size of Tally-Ho. It's a three-person dinghy at best and a crew wanting to go ashore will be bigger than that.
    Why not a 14-footer hanging on davits off the stern?
    He did mention that this will be "one" of Tally-Ho's tenders, so time will tell.
    Leo did say that the rubby dubby would be used for moving more crew or stores than that little folding punt.
    If you want authenticity, the tender would not have been in davits on the stern, Tally Ho is not an oyster skipjack, it would have been in chocks somewhere on the deck. Which is exactly why Leo did not go down that route.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    I think he's going for a mixture of old and new throughout. Mostly traditional with modern touches throughout where advantageous. Like the hybrid engine/motor system. As far as dinghies it seems quite practical, It has performance qualities he enjoys and whilst it doesn't look uber salty , it's not a RIB of plastic dinghy

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    ^ This.
    That dinghy, lashed down between two deck houses, will be the only non trad part visible from outboard. With the possible exception of the anchor windlass.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  18. #1068
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    ^ This.
    That dinghy, lashed down between two deck houses, will be the only non trad part visible from outboard. With the possible exception of the anchor windlass.
    I'm positive the windlass is going to suit the boat !

  19. #1069
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    ^ This.
    That dinghy, lashed down between two deck houses, will be the only non trad part visible from outboard. With the possible exception of the anchor windlass.
    It's possible it won't be so visible after all. The high bulwarks will help to conceal it from a side view, and he might just have the thing tarped while not in use.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    it is almost impossible he will not have a 12' zode with a 15 yammie as well
    ubiquitous

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    it is almost impossible he will not have a 12' zode with a 15 yammie as well
    ubiquitous
    Leo is going electric on the rubby dubby, discussed in the YouTube.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  22. #1072
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    I'm really glad that Leo showcased Russell Brown and his dinghy design. It is quite an accomplishment and very refined. I was looking at the shaped foils and realized this is a planning hull like a Laser or a racing dinghy.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    I made my nutshell to be my tender.
    In any chop it takes nice dings out of the hull. They kind of bash each other - no boat wins.

    Rubber duckies are very gentle on wooden hulls.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Watching the video again I realized that I had missed Leo's mention of a second tender being a rubber duckie with an electric outboard. I wonder if it will be a RIB or something that can be totally deflated and stored while offshore.
    So, the split tender would be more of a recreational tender than work horse.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    In any chop it takes nice dings out of the hull. They kind of bash each other - no boat wins.
    I had a Norse pram for a dinghy which worked great except for the bumping against the hull part. I think that may be the reason some dinghies have a thick rope around the gunwales. Those padded gunwale guards would work better, I just don't care for the looks.
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    I put rope around the gunwales of my dinghy.
    It mostly works, but they still manage to clash if not tied together appropriately.
    That dinghy looks awesome, and rows great.

  27. #1077
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    In any chop it takes nice dings out of the hull. They kind of bash each other - no boat wins.
    The best way to deal with that on a boat of Tally Ho's size is to rig a fender board, a wood board with 4 fenders attached to one side, slung on a couple of lines so that the fenders are against Tally Ho's topsides and at the right height for the dink to berth against.
    This is the new, simpler alternative.


    https://www.walmart.com/ip/WOOWAVE-B...boat/503425627
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    dat don't werk on an anchored bote ,
    when everyone elce is terrorizing the place with THEIR 15 yammie,the big boat rolls one way, the skiff rolls the other way, and all those fenders /boards wind up INSIDE the skiff making it bang even harder
    gotta trail em astern

  29. #1079
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Actually the best way, which is also period correct, is to use a dinghy mooring boom.

    As to whether the dinghy is period correct, remember that Flo-mo was accused on this forum of using the lies of the PT 11, when in fact he was using the lines of Hereshoff's Biscayne 14.

  30. #1080
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    dat don't werk on an anchored bote ,
    when everyone elce is terrorizing the place with THEIR 15 yammie,the big boat rolls one way, the skiff rolls the other way, and all those fenders /boards wind up INSIDE the skiff making it bang even harder
    gotta trail em astern
    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Actually the best way, which is also period correct, is to use a dinghy mooring boom.
    This, although I was thinking more about when you bring it alongside to climb in and out of the damned thing.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  31. #1081
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    It will be interesting to see the boarding ladder Leo comes up with.
    No one is going to be hopping on and off Tally-Ho without one.
    It should be traditional but easy to stow.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  32. #1082
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Tank issues and a little woodwork.


  33. #1083
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    I think he is putting way too much tankage in. 400 liters would be plenty, and he should have the tanks further forward. I like daytanks, but that's just me.

  34. #1084
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    What shoddy workmanship on those tanks! Leaks all over the place. Incredible that the maker didn't pressure test the things before shipment.

    As for tankage, Leo is talking about world cruising including having to cross large areas in the doldrums and low-wind high pressure systems. No sense bobbing about in the ocean for days/weeks whistling for wind.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  35. #1085
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    Default Re: One insane englishman trying to rebuild the 1910 gaff cutter Tally Ho, in WA. (VI

    Leo was very diplomatic in the video when talking about the manufacturer. Probably worried about a lawsuit if he trashed the guy.
    I wonder what his words were when they first discovered the defects after waiting 6 months for these tanks to show up!

    Other than that, all the interior joinery is looking good!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

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