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Thread: Pride in America?

  1. #1
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    Default Pride in America?

    Elsewhere I posted a question: What has this country done since WWII that make you proud, or that you are proud of?

    I was proud of us putting men on the moon and bringing them home safely. I'm a bit embarrassed that we reached a point where we had to buy a ticket from Russia to get to the space station.

    I remember troops coming home from Korea being told it was a police action, so they were not vets. I remember Agent Orange and some other problems with Vietnam vets. These were not things to be proud of.

    More recently, we lied about air quality to first responders at ground zero, and it took us ten years to give in and treat their health problems. Not something to be proud of.

    We created a new category of prisoner; Enemy combatant, and circumvented the Geneva Convention. We detained, tortured, without charge or trial. Hardly something to take pride in.

    We invaded two countries; one behind absolute lies. Hardly a proud moment.


    Response to my request, after a week, had brought a single item; getting rid of communism. I assume that referred to getting rid of the Berlin wall.

    What does it say that this was the ONLY response.

    A lot of Americans love to wave the flag. They love to brag about our constitution and the our rights.


    Let me ask here. Since WWII, what has this country done, as a country, of which you are proud?
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    fart
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    fart
    Not the most refined observation you might have made.

    There are pills you can take to cure that problem.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shang View Post
    Not the most refined observation you might have made.

    There are pills you can take to cure that problem.
    maybe i don't want the cure
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    fart
    It's a good question Paul. What makes us so great?

    Since WWII? The country built a great middle class driven economy that, if not for the Republican party which implemented trickle down economics, would still be chugging along creating great starting points for far more young people. As a country, we have made great strides in racial equity with lots more room for improvement. We went to the moon, and came back. We, for good, bad, or indifferent, created the internet. Remember the Internet was supposed to free information, boy were they wrong. We still stock the military with the poorest of us, we still allow big money to rape us, we still allow the Republicans to hold education back in order to keep the masses stupid enough to vote for them. And yes, the establishment Democrats have definitely taken advantage of this situation for their own profit, while loudly protesting and doing nothing about it. Trump was right, we need to take our country back, but you're on crack if you think it's him and his ideas that will do that. It's sad, we are a country in decline . . . and it's all our fault.

    Most of us have clean water, decent food, and adequate shelter; but that doesn't define greatness. We are not great and if we ever were, it was only because we were constantly moving toward that goal, unlike now, where we are sprinting in retreat.
    Last edited by McMike; 10-01-2017 at 09:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    John, that is an extremely difficult question.

    There are a few things that I think were great, at least in comparison to all the others that were not so great. The Marshal Plan was critical in reviving a mostly destroyed Europe. The GI Bill made higher education possible for many (including me) who would have otherwise not gone beyond high school and that fueled a middle class such as we have never known before or since. Finally, the Apollo Program was the greatest single venture of my lifetime. We may never see again the level of cooperative dedication it took to pull that off. In spite of all the contrary emotions, the Korean War created the environment for a dynamic and relatively free society. Some programs like the Peace Corps did a lot of good things as have some of the actions that have helped people in need.

    I cannot think of a single war or clandestine intervention since then that we would not have been better off by not doing.
    Tom L

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Lopez Lomong. Google him. He makes me proud of America. Proud of what America means, is, and does.

    I think that black President thing was pretty cool, too.

    The people of this country have always been the best part to me, though. The politicians have always been rich cats, hence the republic, eh? There is back and forth, to be sure, and it has gone on since the beginning and will continue until the end. Governments do what they do.

    Still, no matter what the Bozos in Washington are up to, the real power of this place is the people. The United States Of America is the one place where only one thing matters. Really? Really.

    When it comes down to it, the question is, “Are you in?” Look at how we respond to disasters, and then look at our gubmint. When the chips are down, people here see only other people here, and we are all One People here.

    That is real. I just went through a fire, and watched people I KNOW dislike one another work and cry together, and laugh and smile and hug each other. They’re probably back to infighting and back biting by now, but the bond is real, and it’s always simmering just below the surface of our society.

    Shoot, look at our own little Bilge. See the rallying of the rivals during time of need?

    If only we could figure out a way to cultivate the feeling, and keep it alive all the time...

    Peace,
    Dumb Hippy

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    maybe i don't want the cure
    What cure are you referring to?
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    We elected a peanut farmer to our highest office.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    He just hates post-punk goth-pop.
    eh? i can't hear you. . .

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    We elected a peanut farmer to our highest office.
    hmmm. . .

    i've run this through the sarcasm detection meter a few times and each time get a null response
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    hmmm. . .

    i've run this through the sarcasm detection meter a few times and each time get a null response
    My favorite part is the regularity with which he pulls that off!

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Michelle Obama found something to be proud of, but i think she voted against her own voice in '08.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    We elected a peanut farmer to our highest office.
    Well, he was a bit more than that:

    About this time, the Navy was attempting to construct its first nuclear-powered submarines. The program was headed by the brilliant, tough Captain Hyman Rickover. Today regarded as "the father of the nuclear Navy," Rickover was slight, intense and a demanding taskmaster. Carter was assigned to Rickover's research team, and the young lieutenant was pushed mercilessly by the uncompromising captain. "I think, second to my own father, Rickover had more effect on my life than any other man," Carter would later say. One of the two new submarines being built was the Seawolf, and Carter taught nuclear engineering to its handpicked crew.

    Then came bad news from Plains. Carter's father Earl had cancer, and in July 1953, he died. The farm had declined in his last years, and there was real danger that it would now be lost, a crushing prospect to Lillian Carter. After some hard thought, Carter decided to resign from the Navy, return to Plains, and help his family.
    https://millercenter.org/president/c...the-presidency

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    And now, you are proud of Trump.

    A president with the brain of a peanut...

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    hmmm. . .

    i've run this through the sarcasm detection meter a few times and each time get a null response
    Wiz is capable of being subtitle... far beyond the ken of mortal men.


    Since WWII? Lots and lots. One would have to do some thinking to assemble a full list.

    But what it boils down to is we have taken a number of steps that help realize and maintain the higher values of the admirably daring experiment that the Founding Fathers set us up with.

    And we have done a fair amount in the other direction, as well. Enough so that a KnowNothing, GINI coefficient-driven, Actonesque, disequilibrium is now threatening the very core of who we aspire to be.
    Last edited by David G; 10-01-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Indeed he was, although his unassuming manner and some other personal qualities and traits had the right-wing up in arms.

    I recall a luncheon in Paris (1978) when a president of a renowned British professional engineering body referred to him (Carter) in a derogatory manner : "What ? Nuclear engineer ? ...More like a ship´s fitter "

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Elections are things people do. We can be proud we have them, but then we have to look at how we run them, including gerrymandering and other forms of legal cheating.

    We lead the world today, in our murder rate, percentage of people in prison, how much we owe.........

    I was proudest when we put men on the moon and brought them back safely. How am I supposed to feel, years later, when we have to buy a ticket from Russia to get to the space station.

    I don't think being born and raised here is something to be proud of, as it implies those born elsewhere should feel shame, and I had nothing to do with where I was born. further, I don't think being born and raised here is reason to be proud of the country.

    I look at what my country has done in recent years, and I cannot find much to be proud of. I do find a lot to be ashamed of or embarrassed by.

    The interesting (?) thing about my question is that those people who wave our flag the highest, cannot give a list of things we've done we should be proud of.

    Just looking at our reactions to 9/11: a woman cannot take breast milk on a plane. Seriously?
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carioca1232001 View Post
    Indeed he was, although his unassuming manner and some other personal qualities and traits had the right-wing up in arms.

    I recall a luncheon in Paris (1978) when a president of a renowned British professional engineering body referred to him (Carter) in a derogatory manner : "What ? Nuclear engineer ? ...More like a ship´s fitter "
    When checking my memory I actually found web pages that looked quite professional that went to some nasty limits disclaiming his history and accomplishments in this area. Small men can sometimes be smaller than we think possible.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Just looking at our reactions to 9/11: a woman cannot take breast milk on a plane. Seriously?
    I flew not long after 9/11 and I could carry water or whatever onto a plane to drink. All I had to do was take a drink from the container before walking on the plane. (I don't think gasoline is easy to swallow.) We have certainly gone overboard.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Is that "Korean vet" statement true?

    In the 60s, my buddy Ollie drove his half blind uncle to the VA with some paperwork issue. Uncle was a WW1 Marine. The woman at the counter said, "We don't consider you to be vets anymore." Broke the old guys heart. Ollie put up a hissy fit of epic proportions. He said that even the janitor was apologising before they were through.
    “What, Me Worry?". -. A. E. Newman

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    When checking my memory I actually found web pages that looked quite professional that went to some nasty limits disclaiming his history and accomplishments in this area. Small men can sometimes be smaller than we think possible.
    A campaign out there to belittle and smear him, it would seem.

    But we have handled the infinitely small in college and even come to terms with it, using it to practical effect......the infinite calculus.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by carioca1232001 View Post
    But we have handled the infinitely small in college and even come to terms with it, using it to practical effect......the infinite calculus.....
    Math is easier than sociology or politics, but I take your point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Is that "Korean vet" statement true?

    In the 60s, my buddy Ollie drove his half blind uncle to the VA with some paperwork issue. Uncle was a WW1 Marine. The woman at the counter said, "We don't consider you to be vets anymore." Broke the old guys heart. Ollie put up a hissy fit of epic proportions. He said that even the janitor was apologising before they were through.
    No it's not true. It's the OP:s memory being confused

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Since the end of WWII how many civilians has the US killed, just because they were standing in the wrong place at the wrong time? We call it collateral damage. How does that compare to other countries?

    Same question, since the end of the Civil War?

    I suspect we have left a very bloody trail.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    The US looks very different from the outside than it does from inside the bubble. Americans are all too often smugly complacent that they are the BEST at something when they actually are not.

    That being said, I think America's stated commitment to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion is worthy of pride as an ideal, even when it sometimes fails to be actually carried out in practice.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    As a species we are bumbling along, and the jury is out on whether we will make a success of the experiment. At present the portents are not good, but then they haven't been before. From James i #29 "That being said, I think America's stated commitment to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion is worthy of pride as an ideal, even when it sometimes fails to be actually carried out in practice." applies to us all in one aspect or another. We are rather careless of our own species futures, assigning way too much responsibility and authority to a collection of shamans* who vie to sell us their solutions when it is of course in our own rather inadequate hands.

    * I include priests, politicians,some lawyers and the groups that seek private profit at the expense of their fellow human beings. And having been in the advertising game I also include them, another moral free industry.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    No it's not true. It's the OP:s memory being confused

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    My father, who served during WWll and in Korea, would have disagreed somewhat.

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    When I was somewhat younger I used to listen to WLS in Chicago. The music was OK but I always had the impression that the US, as a country was bat****e crazy. That was in the 50's
    things have not improved.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Korea was a 'Police Action" declared so because your Pres. could not get Congress to agree to a declared war.
    My older brother was a Korean Vet. The government was fine re their status, the Veterans Organisation not so. That organisation started after WW1 was similarly dodgy re, in succession, WW2, Korean, Vietnam veterans, but now with falling numbers and financial scandals will accept anyone as an 'associate member' rathe than close down.
    My Uncle (Bomber command) My dad Navy) My grandfather (Royal Engineers) and my step dad (Airforce) would not join them.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    No it's not true. It's the OP:s memory being confused

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk
    My memory may be faulty. I was very young then. I did not say they did not get benefits, but that my memory says there was a bit of a fight over it. I could be wrong about that. I am sure I am not wrong about Agent Orange, and the things I list that came later.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    The US looks very different from the outside than it does from inside the bubble. Americans are all too often smugly complacent that they are the BEST at something when they actually are not.

    That being said, I think America's stated commitment to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion is worthy of pride as an ideal, even when it sometimes fails to be actually carried out in practice.
    I think that's my point. Our 'ideals' would never let us detain captives without trial or charges. Those ideals would never let us torture. We have great deal of trouble, IMO, allowing freedom of speech for speech we find offensive, although, as I often point out, lying for political gain we accept as free speech.

    I would be standing PROUD of my country if it lived up to those ideals. My problem is, I am extremely hard pressed to find it doing so.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    The question is still open. What has this nation done since WWII that you are proud of?

    It seems few, if any, can make such a list. I certainly can't make a list. This should bother us all, no? It bothers me.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?

    Pride comes from change.

    We have made great strides in race relations and gay marriage. And I think we did great things at the end of WWII when we didn't follow the failed foreign policies from the end of WWI.

    It's all relative. We can't be responsible for where our society starts or what we inherit. And from the looks of things, the fight isn't won.

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    Default Re: Pride in America?


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