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Thread: Republican Tax Plan

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Good. May their disasters multiply like dragons' teeth, until they have all been driven into the wilderness, there to be eaten by swarms of insects.

    And good riddance.
    There are signs that the electorate is catching on. Let's hope so. One big help would be a SCOTUS decision to curtail gerrymandering. Next would be to get big money/dark money out of the election process.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Hey peb and Noyes, what say ye to the news that Repubs will abandon any thought of "balancing the budget" in favor of trillions of new deficit for the military and infrastructure?

    The plan I heard was for the Moron to declare bankruptcy and then walk away. It's the Moron's favorite management tool.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan




    And Sarah doesn’t even mention that the $4000 savings isn’t annual, it’s spread out over 8 years.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Hatred and jealousy sure can be ugly

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk
    It truly is NOT about hatred and jealousy. The fact that you think so is disheartening in the extreme.

    What it's about is the recognition that - from a historical perspective - we have let the pendulum swing too far toward the laissez-faire end of things. The knowledge of the turmoil and dysfunction that always seems to result when we get into that territory. And the recognition that pointing out the lies and the wrong-headedness of today's Republican party is critical to the absolutely critical reversal into more moderate (and far more effective) policies.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Hatred and jealousy sure can be ugly

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk
    I question your motives or ability to reason.

    Or both.

    Perhaps these are superficial questions, and the font of your [REDACTED] is deep within your soul.

    These people have been stealing every cent of profit, every possible drop of blood that a working man can wring out of himself for 30 freaking years, and your take on it is that I am jealous.

    Sure.

    Like I'm jealous of a pickpocket.

    I'm jealous of a freaking armed robber.

    I am jealous of a counterfeiter, a forger, a flim-flam man.


    Are you PROJECTING your own so-called 'values' onto me?

    'Cause it sure seems like it.

    You seem to admire and vote for these criminal political vandals, and are PROUD to do it, too.





    Call me one of the 'old-fashioned thinkers'.


  8. #78
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    It's about recognizing the fact that such a high GINI coefficient as we have currently achieves is antithetical to The American Dream, and - if left long enough, or allowed to worsen - could even be a challenge to our system of governance.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    It's about recognizing the fact that such a high GINI coefficient as we have currently achieves is antithetical to The American Dream, and - if left long enough, or allowed to worsen - could even be a challenge to our system of governance.
    Maybe, or it could mean that the fact that people like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg, Warren Buffet, Kim Kardashian, and Norman Bernstein have done quite well with this system; that if you didn't, .......
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Maybe, or it could mean that the fact that people like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg, Warren Buffet, Kim Kardashian, and Norman Bernstein have done quite well with this system; that if you didn't, .......
    My goodness, isn't our compatriot mdh an amazing specimen? Or it could be he just doesn't understand economic statistics and what a rising Gini coefficient actually means; he showed a surprising misunderstanding of the definition of labor productivity yesterday.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    mdh, I can understand the 'disconnect', the anger and RWW talking points - it's consistent with who / what he is.

    peb is a bit more difficult to comprehend - supporting a position I'd consider antithetical to his core values. Honestly, I'd attribute it to partisanship - it's damned difficult for a Republican to be anything but.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Absolutely nails it!

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Seems to me the 'tide that lifts all boats' is the middle class. As goes it, so goes the country.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Is any Republican in the 2017 congress a fiscal conservative?

    I don't see how given that the tax plan currently being cooked up will balloon the Federal deficit.

    Deja Moo: The feeling that you have heard this bull before.


  17. #87
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Yep. It is called "progressive taxation."

    I am for it. Clearly you are not.

    The Big Lie of Trickle Down Economics (tax cuts for the wealthy results in job creation) is still alive despite all the evidence of the last 35 years.

    Deja Moo: The feeling that you have heard this bull before.


  18. #88
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Yep. It is called "progressive taxation."

    I am for it. Clearly you are not.
    And equally clearly, the GINI coefficient indicates that it is not doing a sufficiently effective job of redistributing wealth in the USA.

    What are you doing about it?




  19. #89
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    "Redistributing wealth in the USA?" What are you? Some kind of Commie?

    I'd be happy with the Federal government doing a more effective job of simply paying its bills. But the Republican Party has abandoned fiscal responsibility. I left the Republican Party in 1983 for this very reason.

    Both political parties in the USA are into spending more and more money. They disagree on WHERE to spend the money. The Democratic Party believes in paying the bill by raising taxes. The Republican Party believes in cutting taxes (mostly for the upper income levels) and paying the bill by borrowing money.
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 10-27-2017 at 03:56 PM.

    Deja Moo: The feeling that you have heard this bull before.


  20. #90
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Any tax cut for middle income earners will also provide a benefit for those further up the income scale, including the top 20 percent who now pay 95 percent of all income taxes, according to the director of the Office of Management and Budget.
    This is complete and utter nonsense. It's very, very easy to design a revision to income tax rates that would lower taxes on those in the middle percentiles, while either raising taxes for those who make the most, or keeping them the same.

    And remember that income taxes were only 47% of federal revenue last year. The rest was divided between corporate taxes (about 9%), excise and estate taxes (about 9%) and regressive payroll taxes (34%).
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 10-27-2017 at 05:53 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    "Redistributing wealth in the USA?" What are you? Some kind of Commie?
    We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of "executive officer" for the week...

    What are you doing about it?




  22. #92
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Any tax cut for middle income earners will also provide a benefit for those further up the income scale, including the top 20 percent who now pay 95 percent of all income taxes, according to the director of the Office of Management and Budget.
    This is complete and utter nonsense. It's very, very easy to design a revision to income tax rates that would lower taxes on those in the middle percentiles, while either raising taxes for those who make the most, or keeping them the same.

    And remember that income taxes were only 47% of federal revenue last year. The rest was divided between corporate taxes (about 9%), excise and estate taxes (about 9%) and regressive payroll taxes (34%).
    I didn't read the thingie, but the bit you quoted I assumed to be directed at this particular bill.

    "Any tax cut for middle income earners [included in this bill] will also provide a benefit for those further up the income scale, including the top 20 percent who now pay 95 percent of all income taxes, according to the director of the Office of Management and Budget. "

    I think we should institute payroll taxes for all income.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    I find it rather disingenuous that the rupubs play up the "doubling" of the standard deduction while forgetting to mention that the house bill also eliminates the personal exemption AND the additional standard deductions for the elderly (65+) and blind. In addition one of the current deductions they eliminate is the medical expense deduction that people only gt when they have catastrophic medical expenses. The elimination of the personal exemption will particularly stick it to a part of trump's base (fundies with large families). I also note that the bill retains the preferential treatment on investment income (capital gains and qualified dividends - taxed at 0% for incomes below ~$80K) while continuing to stick it to interest income (fully taxable). For the wealthy the bill decreases taxes by 14% on income from 480K to 1M (for joint incomes). That alone is a $70K tax saving for those making over $1M. In contrast those making $100K or less with see only trivial changes unless they have large families where their taxes will increase.

    Note - I base my comments on reading the actual bill, not on news stories. It is out there if you want to look for it.

    Disclosure - The house tax bill does not change my federal taxes at all.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd D View Post
    I find it rather disingenuous that the rupubs play up the "doubling" of the standard deduction while forgetting to mention that the house bill also eliminates the personal exemption AND the additional standard deductions for the elderly (65+) and blind. In addition one of the current deductions they eliminate is the medical expense deduction that people only gt when they have catastrophic medical expenses. The elimination of the personal exemption will particularly stick it to a part of trump's base (fundies with large families). I also note that the bill retains the preferential treatment on investment income (capital gains and qualified dividends - taxed at 0% for incomes below ~$80K) while continuing to stick it to interest income (fully taxable). For the wealthy the bill decreases taxes by 14% on income from 480K to 1M (for joint incomes). That alone is a $70K tax saving for those making over $1M. In contrast those making $100K or less with see only trivial changes unless they have large families where their taxes will increase.

    Note - I base my comments on reading the actual bill, not on news stories. It is out there if you want to look for it.

    Disclosure - The house tax bill does not change my federal taxes at all.
    You wanna bet?

    These tax cuts are based on cuts to Medicare by $473 billion.
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Another example of how ideologically-driven, ugly, short-sighted, and dysfunctional today's Republican party is. The heck with the impact on citizens - both D & R.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...c00_story.html
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Where's all that charts and graphs that proved that the last Presidents doubling of the nation debt was something that intelligent people shouldn't be worrying about?


  28. #98
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by RHAKCT View Post
    Where's all that charts and graphs that proved that the last Presidents doubling of the nation debt was something that intelligent people shouldn't be worrying about?

    No, you're thinking of Cheney.

    The deficit doesn't matter, unless there's a Democratic President.


    Furthermore, Cheney doubled the debt OFF THE BOOKS, and O'Bama brought it into the light and addressed it.

    Besides, don't you know that the 'Republican' Party are a criminal enterprise?

    Their sole aim since Ronald F Reagan has been to mire the US Government in so much debt that it will be forced to declare bankruptcy and cede control to Money.

    No more Rule Of Law, just Money.


    Vile, reprehensible, anti-American scum.

    'Deplorable' doesn't even BEGIN to describe these traitors.

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." -- Dick Cheney

    Deja Moo: The feeling that you have heard this bull before.


  30. #100
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan


  31. #101
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    'Excellent! Our plan is working, as designed!'

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/04/u...gtype=Homepage

    Universities criticized the proposed tax Friday as a blunt instrument that would curb their autonomy and reduce support for poor and moderate-income students.


    They said the G.O.P. plan was using revenues from universities to offset corporate tax breaks, not to further any educational or social mission.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Half of the tax cuts in this plan benefit the wealthiest 1%. What a stinker.



  33. #103
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd D View Post
    In addition one of the current deductions they eliminate is the medical expense deduction that people only get when they have catastrophic medical expenses.
    While I agree with the intent of that deduction, it does not always work out that way.

    There was a article about one family's reliance on the health expense deduction to help with $98K of annual medical expense. The family claimed it would have to take $24K out of savings to pay the taxes on their out of pocket $98K annual medical expenses. That would require that the $98K be in the 25% tax bracket. So their income after all deductions except medical expenses is close to $250K. They can well afford the additional $24K in taxes.

    If this was a family with $100K/year income, a $98K of annual expense would certainly be catastrophic and the tax break would not make it any less so. Deductions don't help the people they need to help. But they do give those with the ability to afford expenses a nice gift.
    Life is complex.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    I caught a bit of the Ways & Means committee hearings today.

    Future storm victims won't be able to deduct losses. Those making $20k - $40k will see their taxes go UP.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Republican Tax Plan

    And those same folks aren't watching those hearings. Probably call it 'fake news', anyway - they don't seem too discriminating.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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