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Thread: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Thanks Dave.

    It does. For me anyway. If I were a 6 ft tall person, I'd scale the whole thing up about 12%. That ends up with a 19 ft boat, 38 inches of vertical clearance in the cabin but also something that weighs about 40% more.

    If my estimates are correct the dry weight of this design should come in around 680 lbs. Adding 240 lbs of batteries brings it to about 920 lbs. That's around my target area regarding ease of trailering, beaching and intended use.

    From your suggestion I played with the cabin height. Here's a comparison by adding 3 inches to the height.



    I'm not liking it - starts getting out of proportion to my eye. Better to scale the whole thing up to fit your height. In the spirit that smaller boats get used and enjoyed more often, I have optimised this design specifically for me, asking myself on all aspects what is the minimum that works for me. This is pretty much the result.

    Still - you bring up a valid point. It's been considered but only selfishly, not generally.

    Travis.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Splitting hairs here, but what if you raised the rig and cabin 3", but left the cockpit coaming where it was? Would that keep a look you could live with?

    Of course, you've already said it fits you, so there might be no point.

    Nice design!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    I think that might make the cabin look even more pronounced, and as you say, it's pointless for me.

    The cabin design is only one aspect. For the purposes of this boat, it's a lesser aspect. It will function as I need it but also I'm trying to keep the cabin top and the rig as low as I can. This has more to do with sight lines for me for it's primary intended use.

    My eyes are 31 inches above the seat. I want to be able to see over the cabin.


    This is pretty much where I'll be sitting under sail (left stick figure). Boom clears my head and I can see over the cabin. If the cabin were any higher, I wouldn't have any vertical slope to my sight line.

    Also, I'm showing a seated position of me sitting on a 2-inch cushion inside the cabin (right stick figure). Works for me. I might build a floor board / convertible chair. It could give me a couple more inches by intruding below the floor line. Or just toss a bean bag down there for reading/lounging.

    Travis.
    Last edited by Zuri; 09-28-2017 at 01:40 PM.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Travis, If it works for you, then of course it's fine and no changes warranted. I would note that cabin trunks look shorter on the finished boat than they do in the renderings, and while the top view of your boat is sweeter to the eye, the higher cabin trunk wouldn't look bad at all on the water.

    Here's an example of Devlin's Nancy's China:



    -Dave

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Also a good point about the differences in drawings and the real thing. Sometimes profiles look better in the real world vs line drawings. Sometimes the other way around.

    For me, the drawings are a starting point and general direction and a way for me to work out the major details. I have a habit of deviating or revising things under construction. I may fiddle with the strake lines once I put the battens on the forms. Or, I have a tendency to mock things up which may very well happen with the cabin top.

    Travis.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    What are you thinking for decking solutions? Painted Dynel? Stripped fir?

  7. #42
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    Nov 2016
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    Everett, WA, USA
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Painted glass over ply for me with a generous amount of non-skid. The toe rail, rub rail, hatch, hatch runners, handrails (not shown yet) and a few other bits will be bright but the the plywood will be painted.

    It'll very much look like a big sister to the Shellback. Same colors (ease of maintenance) for me. Sapele trim, Doug Fir spars. The rest System Three San Juan Tan.



    Shellback - above



    Zuri - above

    Makes it easy to stock up on supplies for maintenance.

    Travis.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    A suggestion: would an off-centreboard work to free up more interior space? Getting rid of a knee-banger like that might work well, with minimal effect on how it performs.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Yes - Alex suggested that too. A very sensible suggestion that I am not going to do.

    I'm turning this into an electric drive. I'm leaving that temperamental, noisy, smelly outboard at home. I want enough capacity that I'll never want to use the outboard. With that, I want a fairly substantial battery bank. That's best to have located low and centered. So - it makes the most sense, for my use, to have the centerboard and battery bank act together right down the middle. The functionality or luxury of the cabin is secondary. I'm convinced it will function adequately enough for my needs.

    I concede that a small cabin may not be the most practical thing. I still want it. I agree the centerboard can be moved to one side, or lowered as is the case for Meadow Bird, to make the cabin more usable. I'm not doing that.

    If I were more practical, I'd build a Welsford Navigator. It has more cockpit space, good looks (in my opinion), doesn't have that pesky cabin taking up valuable space. It's mannerisms, performance, rig and construction already established and refined. Design pedigree is much better than my own. In fact, I recently bought the Navigator plans fully intending on building it.

    But, it will be me that will invest a considerable amount of time and money putting this thing together, and I know what I'm after so here's my chance to give it a go carte blanche. May as well optimize this for all my priorities and preferences.

    Travis.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Hi Travis,
    I have a Hartley TS 16 Jackyard Topsail yawl so very much in sync with what you are trying....
    I like the wide beam - gives a decent wide sleeping space, and lots more room for all the domestic junk that comes along.
    One thing if I may...... I have sailed boats with sticks out one end or the other - and with both. Not having one uncluttered end gets a bit awkward at times - like crowded maneuvering or even docking or stepping off the boat ......

    I did away with the bumkin and fitted two sheets, like a jib, to the aft corners of the transom.
    Brilliant! The Jigger is still self tacking with no attentIon to the sheets - but best of all, the sheets make it easy to use the sail for maneuvering. Only prob for me is on a dead run it is hard to let the sail out far enough without it swinging round forward of the mast because of the small angle of purchase. I can live with that though given all the other advantages....
    Best,
    Frank

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    You have a Hartley TS 16 with a Jackyard Topsail and yawl to boot? I'd like to see a photo of that.

    You might be right about the boomkin. The transom opens up opportunities that double enders don't have. I'll have to look into that one.

    Travis.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser


  13. #48
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Well!
    That is the first picture i have ever posted here!
    (Of course it would be upside down.....
    Frank

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser


  15. #50
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    ha! - what wives are for ..... she got this one

    course you are in the N. hemisphere so this one will be upside down and the first the right way......

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Thanks Frank - that's great. I bet you get a lot of funny looks when you hoist that topsail. Is that a bowsprit and cutter configuration I see on your headsails? You must really like pulling string. Did you build the rig?

    Do you have any closer photos of your mizzen sheet arrangement? I'm wondering about integrating trailer holdowns and maybe have them act double duty as purchase points for the mizzen sheet.

    Travis.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Sorry Travis - my earlier draft got swallowed......

    Yes, I have now more than 36 'strings' to pull, compared to the original 6 or so. It now takes 2hrs. to rig........

    Ah, photos of my sheeting arrangement.... I don't , but the real problem is that it is terribly 'lash up'. I am so impressed with your outfit........ but sailing has been pushed into a small corner of my life.

    but hopefully I can post a video of my kids boat - I mean the boat I had as a kid. Some of those sails date back to my Swallows and Amazons days.

    best wishes,

    frank

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l4uFLFrT-y0&sns=em

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Wow Frank! I see where that exclamation point comes in now. It takes some Moxie to pull that off. Is this you?



    (3) head sails, mizzen, a gaff rigged main and a top sail - on a canoe.

    It's just missing a bowsprit.

    Travis.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Thinking of eliminating the forward hatch. I just don't think it will be very usable. Pulled the Sampson post back and included a stepped bulkhead for flotation.



    There will be a couple access hatches in the forward bulkhead:


    The hatches are mainly to service the hidden bolt on the bowsprit and the backing plate for the bow eye. The aft end of the bowsprit will be tenoned and the sampson post mortised.

    Travis.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Ah, yes , Travis - but bowsprit on 17' canoe was a bit much - even for me!

    th' Gnu (the original canoe never had a name - we didn't in those days unless it was "Saucy Sue" - though funny........with life's coincidences my good wife's name is Sue - and the Hartley is "Insouciance").

    back to "th' Gnu II" - got called that 'cos I realise that indeed it did have a name....."Hey Mum, Dad, I'm off down the beach with th' Gnu....."

    although the main and jibs were from the original, the boat was lost to life's misadventures - but this one turned up on the hard rubbish (a kinda unofficial community recycling project here in Oz) with a ring of small holes in the bottom - I surmise it had been used as a planter......

    it is quite versatile and capable - as fast as any of my mates little casual boats - and under jib and mizzen easily copes with wind and sea states up to force 4. My main concern is that I do not yet have a good flotation system - so self recovery may be difficult in marginally tough conditions. Apart from that it has proved itself on some small excursions and is quicker and easier to rig - and cartops.

    I also like to think it has some cred.........

    frank

    btw - thanks for pulling the still and posting it

    pps. and thanks Travis for the "moxie" accolade....
    Last edited by Frank!; 10-01-2017 at 09:15 AM.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Aha! Now I just confirmed who Frank is, I can confirm that he does have boat moxie.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Well!
    That is the first picture i have ever posted here!
    (Of course it would be upside down.....
    Frank
    Well, we just thought you were Australian.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  23. #58
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    Default Re: Small Daysailer Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I like everything in the plan except the 34" overhead in the cabin. Put in even a thin mattress, and most people will be close to but not quite able to find sitting headroom. To my way of thinking, that "not quite" space is worse than accommodation that doesn't even come close to allowing sitting headroom. I'd be looking to get a few more inches -- at least in part of the cabin. More crown to the deck, a slightly raised hatch, or these combined with a bit more height on the cabin sides. I like to find a comfortable spot, warm and dry, to sit and read after the sun goes down. Can Sanderling offer this?
    Like Dave says, a good spot for reading, sitting headroom. And I would keep her light for trailering. I have a small car and can tow 510 kg with an unbraked trailer. No need fora motor, launching is easier and sailing is better for the boat is lighter. Waterballast to make her more steady when anchored, possibly in jerricans. I like the name Sanderling . Frank

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