The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

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  • PeterSibley
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2001
    • 70993

    The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

    From that lefty green publication, Forbes.



    Scientists have long known about the anomalous "warming hole" in the North Atlantic Ocean, an area immune to warming of Earth's oceans. This cool zone in the North Atlantic Ocean appears to be associated with a slowdown in the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), one of the key drivers in global ocean circulation.

    A recent study published in Nature outlines research by a team of Yale University and University of Southhampton scientists. The team found evidence that Arctic ice loss is potentially negatively impacting the planet's largest ocean circulation system. While scientists do have some analogs as to how this may impact the world, we will be largely in uncharted territory.

    AMOC is one of the largest current systems in the Atlantic Ocean and the world. Generally speaking, it transports warm and salty water northward from the tropics to South and East of Greenland. This warm water cools to ambient water temperature then sinks as it is saltier and thus denser than the relatively more fresh surrounding water. The dense mass of water sinks to the base of the North Atlantic Ocean and is pushed south along the abyss of the Atlantic Ocean.


    This process whereby water is transported into the Northern Atlantic Ocean acts to distribute ocean water globally. What's more important, and the basis for concern of many scientists is this mechanism is one of the most efficient ways Earth transports heat from the tropics to the northern latitudes. The warm water transported from the tropics to the North Atlantic releases heat to the atmosphere, playing a key role in warming of western Europe. You likely have heard of one of the more popular components of the AMOC, the Gulf Stream which brings warm tropical water to the western coasts of Europe.

    Evidence is growing that the comparatively cold zone within the Northern Atlantic could be due to a slowdown of this global ocean water circulation. Hence, a slowdown in the planet's ability to transfer heat from the tropics to the northern latitudes. The cold zone could be due to melting of ice in the Arctic and Greenland. This would cause a cold fresh water cap over the North Atlantic, inhibiting sinking of salty tropical waters. This would in effect slow down the global circulation and hinder the transport of warm tropical waters north.




    Melting of the Arctic sea ice has rapidly increased in the recent decades. Satellite image records indicate that September Arctic sea ice is 30% less today than it was in 1979. This trend of increased sea ice melting during summer months does not appear to be slowing. Hence, indications are that we will see a continued weakening of the global ocean circulation system.

    This scenario of a collapse in AMOC and global ocean circulation is the premise for the movie "The Day After Tomorrow." As a disclaimer, the plot line in which much of New England and Western Europe gets plunged into an ice age is significantly over exaggerated and unrealistic on human time scales.
    While geologists have studied events in the past similar to what appears to be happening today, scientists are largely unsure of what lies ahead.


    Trevor Nace is a geologist, Forbes contributor, founder of Science Trends, and adventurer. Follow his journey @trevornace. Let's connect: [email protected]
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead
  • Gerarddm
    #RESIST
    • Feb 2010
    • 32553

    #2
    Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

    A old pal of mine, an oceanographer at Woods Hole, has been concerned about this for some time.
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

    Comment

    • PeterSibley
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2001
      • 70993

      #3
      Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

      I read about the possibility on the Woods Holes website first, years ago.
      '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
      Grateful Dead

      Comment

      • Peerie Maa
        Old Grey Inquisitive One
        • Oct 2008
        • 62530

        #4
        Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

        Yep, this has been discussed for years.

        Then again: Coal, Coal, Coal, Oil, Oil, Oil, Coal, Coal, Coal.
        It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

        The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
        The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

        Comment

        • PeterSibley
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2001
          • 70993

          #5
          Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

          A frozen Western Europe would bring on a recession verging on a depression.

          How deep do you sink foundations, gas and telecom lines in the UK Nick?

          How deep in Maine ?
          '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
          Grateful Dead

          Comment

          • Paul Pless
            pinko commie tree hugger
            • Oct 2003
            • 124950

            #6
            Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

            may you live in interesting times
            Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

            Comment

            • isla
              Isla Woodcraft
              • Aug 2008
              • 12230

              #7
              Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

              Originally posted by PeterSibley
              A frozen Western Europe would bring on a recession verging on a depression.

              How deep do you sink foundations, gas and telecom lines in the UK Nick?
              Not very is the answer for my area. Most of our local power and telecom line are above ground on poles. The telephone trunk line running from a junction box near my house (about 1 mile along a quiet country road) to another box on the main road junction, is often exposed. I see it looped up out of the ground along the grass verge. I report it, they bury it again, then it pops up in another place. It should be in a concrete lined trench with steel covers, but it seems like they don't bother in rural areas.

              Officially the specs for burying gas mains is..

              A gas main should normally be laid with a minimum depth of cover of 750 mm in a road or verge and 600 mm in a footpath. A gas service pipe should normally be laid with a minimum depth of cover of 375 mm in private ground and 450 mm in footpaths and highways.

              Which again seems very shallow to me.Concrete strip foundations for walls are usually about 1 metre.
              Structures without reference to geometry tend toward the ramshackle

              Comment

              • StevenBauer
                LPBC member
                • Jan 2000
                • 23288

                #8
                Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

                Originally posted by PeterSibley
                A frozen Western Europe would bring on a recession verging on a depression.

                How deep do you sink foundations, gas and telecom lines in the UK Nick?

                How deep in Maine ?
                The frostline for building in Maine is 48". ~1.2 meters.

                Comment

                • Paul Pless
                  pinko commie tree hugger
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 124950

                  #9
                  Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

                  Originally posted by StevenBauer
                  The frostline for building in Maine is 48". ~1.2 meters.
                  A mere 42" in Hell.
                  Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

                  Comment

                  • PeterSibley
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2001
                    • 70993

                    #10
                    Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

                    Originally posted by StevenBauer
                    The frostline for building in Maine is 48". ~1.2 meters.
                    I thought it was that or even 60''. I wonder how Maine temperatures would effect UK infrastructure ? Piping, roads , building foundations, gas and water supplies ?
                    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
                    Grateful Dead

                    Comment

                    • Paul Pless
                      pinko commie tree hugger
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 124950

                      #11
                      Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

                      Originally posted by PeterSibley
                      I thought it was that or even 60''. I wonder how Maine temperatures would effect UK infrastructure ? Piping, roads , building foundations, gas and water supplies ?
                      Wouldn't it stimulate the economy?
                      Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

                      Comment

                      • PeterSibley
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2001
                        • 70993

                        #12
                        Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

                        Something like a severe disaster affecting middle class white people may be the only thing that will get through the denialist mindset.
                        '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
                        Grateful Dead

                        Comment

                        • PeterSibley
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2001
                          • 70993

                          #13
                          Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

                          Originally posted by Paul Pless
                          Wouldn't it stimulate the economy?
                          or send it bankrupt?
                          '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
                          Grateful Dead

                          Comment

                          • Paul Pless
                            pinko commie tree hugger
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 124950

                            #14
                            Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

                            Originally posted by PeterSibley
                            or send it bankrupt?
                            don't liberals and socialists love infrastructure spending?
                            a dissipation or reversing of the gulfstream ought to provide plenty of work for everyone
                            Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

                            Comment

                            • Chris Smith porter maine
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2008
                              • 5684

                              #15
                              Re: The Gulf Stream and extra melt water?

                              Originally posted by PeterSibley
                              I thought it was that or even 60''. I wonder how Maine temperatures would effect UK infrastructure ? Piping, roads , building foundations, gas and water supplies ?
                              In practice it is here in western Maine a 4' frost wall is set upon a footing my footing is 24" wide by 12" deep.

                              Comment

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