Fast sailer 12' or under.

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  • tdem
    human
    • Sep 2008
    • 156

    #61
    Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

    I've taught an adult learn to sail course the last few years. Basically follow the same model as "opti kids" but using lasers. Not the ideal boat, but you do have the option of radial and 4.7 rigs.

    The Optimus Maximus from John Welsford must be a contender for adult opti alternative ;-)

    Originally posted by tink
    Off topic but....
    I do a bit of teaching of kids and adults to sail here in the UK under the RYA scheme.
    We teach kids single handed usually in Optimists and they then naturally continue and progress in the Optimist.
    We teach adults 2 or 3 trainees and an instructor in a Wayfarer or other big training boat. They then want to build on their skills and want to do this singlehandedly, there are very few boats that are suitable for this.

    the Oz goose and Oz / PD racer look like a great combination for Adult sail training.

    https://tinkboats.wordpress.com
    http://proasail.blogspot.co.uk
    What I get up to
    https://youtu.be/X9NZEyvpb_Y Streaker dinghy
    https://youtu.be/oni-3rJzxqQ Sail Canoe
    https://youtu.be/eW078PPgJak Proa

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    • tink
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 1386

      #62
      Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

      Originally posted by tdem
      I've taught an adult learn to sail course the last few years. Basically follow the same model as "opti kids" but using lasers. Not the ideal boat, but you do have the option of radial and 4.7 rigs.

      The Optimus Maximus from John Welsford must be a contender for adult opti alternative ;-)
      There maybe a few single hand boats worse than the Laser for learning to sail, Contender, International Canoe and Musto Skiff but it would be a short list. The Laser has many vices and few plus points, there are lots of them, that has completed that list.
      Learning to sail is demanding enough without adding ‘ease the kicker to get under the boom when tacking in a blow’. Even worse as the rigs get smaller. Then there is keep tension on the mainsheet when tacking or gybing or you will be doing the capsize drill early in your training.
      The adults we train at our club are on the whole older with all that that implies, not many would come back a second day if they went out in a Laser.
      If it is warm water, light winds and sporty under 30s the Laser would probably be ok

      Comment

      • heavyweather
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2012
        • 463

        #63
        Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

        What's wrong with boats like Pirat or Corsair? They can be sailed by kids and single handed by youth and older people.

        Comment

        • tink
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 1386

          #64
          Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

          Originally posted by heavyweather
          What's wrong with boats like Pirat or Corsair? They can be sailed by kids and single handed by youth and older people.
          We don’t have those in the UK, we have plenty of double handed dinghies that can be sailed singlehanded but I can’t think of an adult boat that is the equivalent of an Optimist.

          Comment

          • SHClark
            Designated Loose Cannon
            • Jan 2009
            • 298

            #65
            Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

            I designed the UFO.
            Fulcrum Speedworks has the exclusive license to build this design, they are not going to make kits or plans available.
            It is hard to make really small boats fast because no matter how light you make them, once you put a human aboard they have pretty high Displacement Length ratios. Which might be overcome by lots of sail, but then you have the stability problems.
            One plan of action is to take a dinghy design you like and build one as light as you can possibly imagine. Relatively noprmal boats get lots better when 100 pounds lighter. So if you build a glued lap Herreshoff dinghy that weighed 70 lbs, it would be a pretty sweet ride. If you put a really nice airfoil daggerboartd and rudder, and took the time to build a proper modern mast and sail, you will probably out sail most boats the same size, but it is still not going to give you much of a buzz most days.
            Ezra Smith and I were working on what he called a 100 boat. That is to say 100 inches long. His thought was to use a T foil rudder to make the boat think it was bigger than it is. He had other clever ideas as well to make it possible to set a pretty large sail and keep the boat upright. Much of that thunder was stolen by the UFO, but it might be worth taking another look at it.
            His hull shape was not "easy to build" so would take some skill to do nicely, but the boat is so small it woiuldn't be a chore to strip plank or cold mold.
            SHC

            Comment

            • SHClark
              Designated Loose Cannon
              • Jan 2009
              • 298

              #66
              Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

              Look down the threads for Design Ideas for Classic Moth.
              Looking at Moth designs, which are very close to your idea.
              SHC

              Comment

              • Chris249
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2013
                • 3316

                #67
                Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

                Originally posted by tink
                There maybe a few single hand boats worse than the Laser for learning to sail, Contender, International Canoe and Musto Skiff but it would be a short list. The Laser has many vices and few plus points, there are lots of them, that has completed that list.
                Opinions differ. I find the Laser to be a delightful boat and often more fun than my International Canoe, which is wonderful in different ways. I've never known anyone to ease the kicker when tacking, or keep tension on the mainsheet in a gybe.

                Sure, the boom is low when fully vanged (although not as low as an OK, I believe) but it's not as low on the Radial. And the design has its own pluses - being long and slender it can go as fast or faster than other hiking singlehanders with less sail area.
                Last edited by Chris249; 11-13-2017, 06:12 PM.

                Comment

                • tink
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 1386

                  #68
                  Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

                  Originally posted by Chris249
                  Opinions differ. I find the Laser to be a delightful boat and often more fun than my International Canoe, which is wonderful in different ways. I've never known anyone to ease the kicker when tacking, or keep tension on the mainsheet in a gybe.

                  Sure, the boom is low when fully vanged (although not as low as an OK, I believe) but it's not as low on the Radial. And the design has its own pluses - being long and slender it can go as fast or faster than other hiking singlehanders with less sail area.
                  clearly you are not a beginner if you also sail an International Canoe, the comments above are about its suitablity as an adults teaching boat. As a beach boat for intermediate sailors and above it is hard to beat.

                  Comment

                  • roam
                    Junior Member
                    • Sep 2017
                    • 8

                    #69
                    Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

                    Thanks again for all the suggestions. Of the boats listed I like the Cherub best but now my wandering eye is looking at trimarans. I'm no longer requiring the boat be 12' or less. I'm thinking a <15' tri would be fun. The size limit is due to the ~17' length of my garage and not any future needs to carry it on another boat.

                    Comment

                    • johnw
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2001
                      • 28596

                      #70
                      Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

                      You might have a look at Richard Woods' designs, many of which are sheet ply.

                      Woods Designs design a range of diy day sailing trimarans, all called Strike, you can build in plywood from plans
                      On the trailing edge of technology.

                      https://www.amazon.com/Outlaw-John-L.../dp/B07LC6Y934

                      http://www.scribd.com/johnmwatkins/documents

                      http://booksellersvsbestsellers.blogspot.com/

                      Comment

                      • tink
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 1386

                        #71
                        Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

                        In no way being negative to the UFO, probably the most practical and mainstream foiler out there.
                        If to foil you need foils as long as shown here we are going to see the vast majority of boats firmly in contact with the water for a looooooong time to come.



                        Again not be being negative to the the UFO which is a great bit of product design and I would love if I lived somewhere where I could sail it.

                        Comment

                        • Chris249
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2013
                          • 3316

                          #72
                          Re: Fast sailer 12' or under.

                          Originally posted by tink
                          clearly you are not a beginner if you also sail an International Canoe, the comments above are about its suitablity as an adults teaching boat. As a beach boat for intermediate sailors and above it is hard to beat.
                          It probably depends very much on where you are, and to what extent you are looking at the boat in isolation or rather more holistically.

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