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Thread: Pattern Photos for Peter

  1. #1
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    Default Pattern Photos for Peter

    Here you go, Peter. Best guess is it'll tip the scales at about 20-25#, which should be about right as a kedge for Bucephalus, assuming my 35# ABI as bower. I'm taking it up to Port Townsend Foundry at the end of the week --but I have *no* idea when they'll get around to casting it.

    Lots of bondo on the shank because I f***ed up my math (half of 7/8" is *not* 1/4"; I have *no* idea what I was thinking) and took off too much wood to start with:



    Tapered mortise for the fid, through the folding stock. Corebox was built directly from the core print. Pattern for the fid itself, too, in case Pete doesn't feel like cutting one out of 3/16" stock.



    The ball stop for the end of the stock, with its core print. It'll be welded in place once the stock is threaded through the shank:



    Ring for the anchor warp, in case they don't feel like bending one out of round stock. It'll be cast, sawn open, the ends tweaked apart, and threaded onto the shank before being straightened and welded shut again. The other option would be to just use a shackle, but I like a ring for bending on a rope rode. The two cores, for stock and ring, are undersized --1/2"-- and will need to be drilled to final size, but upon the recommendation of Chuck (Goldrock), coring right there should help prevent shrink defects:



    One of the biggest annoyances of moving parts on any anchor, for me, is how the parts can pinch fingers, so on the last anchor (6.5#) and on this one I shaped the crown with a shallow saddle to hold the folded stock securely in place. The core print is for a hole to secure a tripline, but it's also handy for a piece of cord to secure the folded stock. (Yes, lots of bondo to fair in curves):



    Curvy fluke style, to avoid fouling; 90 point, as spec'ed by HMCo.; a small bill to aid penetration. The saddle for the folded stock is pretty visible, too:



    Hopefully PT Foundry will like it well enough to cast it soon, so I can post photos of the finished product. After that, I'll need to take it out and drag it around, to see how well it holds.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Oh, I like that. A lot.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    I do too. Alex thanks for taking the time to post the photos ! What do you think the heaviest component will weigh?
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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Yes, a tricky part of the casting... I'd be tempted to feed that as shrinkage in the shank would suck metal out of the enlarged area.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Oh, I like that. A lot.
    Watch out: it's fun enough that if you ever start, you'll never stop!

    What do you think the heaviest component will weigh?
    I'm really not sure what the shank/flukes will weigh on its own. It should be an easy thing to weigh the pattern, calculate the wood's specific gravity, and go from there to a bronze weight, but I built it out of scraps of various different woods --sapele, mahog, bass, jelutong-- not to mention a lot of bondo, so that approach ends up being little more accurate than squint-and-guess. If I *had* to guess? Maybe 14-18#?

    a tricky part of the casting...
    The gating will be interesting. I'm not a foundryman, just a hedge-patternmaker, but looking at it, I might run a sprue down the length of the shank and gate into both the inside of one fluke and up near the head where those cores are; maybe even with a riser atop the crown, opposite the saddle for the folded stock, since that's the heftiest part of the casting. That's me guessing, though. What do you think? How would you gate it? You've done a lot more metal pouring than I have.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    That is a stunner of a job! I think Pete will figure it out just fine. I am going to go by and take a peek.
    Jay

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    That is a stunner of a job! I think Pete will figure it out just fine. I am going to go by and take a peek.
    I think it came out pretty well --though the f***-up that necessitated all that bondo still bugs the h*** out of me. Oh well. The real proof will be how well it digs in and holds, of course.

    Until then, however, hearing approval here feels pretty good!

    I'm headed up to PT on Friday --Foundry, Edensaw for a scrap of ebony, pick up a friend's boat to drag it back to Oly post-WBF, etc.-- so the pattern will be there by that afternoon. Hopefully you'll think as well of it in person.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    That is going to be a sweet looking anchor.

    Lots of long thin sections to get metal through. I would probably start with a fairly large gate to the intersection of the shaft and fluke, another about 1/2 way up the shaft with risers coming off the tip of each fluke and the head of the shaft to create reservoirs to draw from as the metal cools. But I am at the neophyte end of the bronze casting range.
    Steve

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    That is the NG Herreshoff design is it not?
    Jay

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Lots of long thin sections to get metal through...
    That's a really good idea, to put risers on the flukes. They're quite thin at the edges, to aid penetration, and I hadn't considered how the thicker spine along the back of each palm might cause casting troubles. I'll be very interested to see how Pete ends up casting it.

    That is the NG Herreshoff design is it not?
    Yes and no --which means, I suppose, (short answer) no.

    I started with NGH's formula, which is surprisingly straightforward once you play with the numbers for a while: everything starts with the broad dimension of a rectangular-sectioned shank, X, and that dimension is then multiplied out in different ways to get the different elements of the design. The narrow dimension of that shank is .5X, the length of the shank is the square root of 800X, etc. The formula even allows one to calculate the weight and the proof test. It was easy to build an Excel spreadsheet that allows me to plug in different numbers until I get an anchor of about the right weight, then see all the dimensions I need to use. And of course his angles are the starting point for the layout I used: flat of the palms is 45 to the shank, etc.

    I then looked at how those dimensions related to my bower, a 35# ABI, which is very similar to a Luke, which is itself derived from an HMCo. The ABI has held with pretty much absolute reliability for the 30 years I've used it, only a couple times being stymied by heavy kelp, and the Luke is itself legendary for its reliability, so I felt comfortable working with the ABI as a proven modification rather than a crank knock-off (like mine!). The critical difference is that the ABI has a proportionally shorter shank than a comparable weight HMCo anchor's, while retaining the same angles. That was achieved by using a larger crown radius --.42*sqrt(800X) as opposed to HMCo's .25*sqrt(800X)-- meaning the arc connecting the palms is much flatter, resulting in a shorter shank, making for a shorter anchor that is easier to stow.

    As far as functionality goes, as near as I can tell this means that the insertion of the HMCo's anchor into the bottom, once it goes deeper than the length of the palms, is more gradual than that of the ABI's. This might mean that the HMCo has an easier time burying itself more deeply --maybe. I have never dived down and checked the ABI's set, so I can't tell you how it has done in that regard, nor have I heard of anyone diving on an HMCo anchor often enough to confrim that it *does* set that deeply as a matter of course, but I can tell you that the ABI holds reliably, and that the several inches of extra length would have been a nuisance aboard my small boat. So I used the ABI crown radius with the rest of the HMCo formula to get a shorter anchor.

    ABI's palms are a bit wider, proportionally, than NGH's formula would have them, perhaps because ABI was looking at needing a larger palm area to compensate for a shallower set due to the steeper insertion that comes with the larger crown radius. To that end, my anchor's palms are closer in relative width to an ABI than to an HMCo. In truth, it's this change that has me most nervous / curious to see how well my anchor will do, comparatively.

    I also diverged from both HMCo and ABI by rounding the shank's edges, giving it elliptical edges while keeping it comparable in cross sectional area to the strictly orthagonal shank in the HMCo formula. NGH made his shanks rectangular-sectioned because it made possible / practical the three-piece knock-down design he favored, specifically as regards ease of manufacture. Since I was not creating a three-piece knock-down, but casting shank and flukes in one piece, this constraint didn't apply. NGH also favored the rectangular-sectioned shank over a *round* shank because for a given cross-sectional area it presented a slimmer profile to the bottom and would allow less resistance should the flukes bury well enough that the shank itself was pulled down into the bottom. It is my hope that the elliptical edges (on what is otherwise a rectangular shank) on my anchor will further that capacity for penetration. No way to know until I take it out and try it, but I feel pretty good about the way it shaped on the bench.

    And the hard corners on the ABI's rectangular-sectioned shank like to try and take bites out of anything it comes near, so the rounded edges on mine should reduce the capacity for doing damage. That's the hope I started with, anyhow. It was rather a b**ch figuring out the ellipse vs. rectangle areas to keep the strength the same, so it had darned well better pay at least *that* dividend.

    I also tapered the stock a bit, to keep the weight down at the crown where it will do the most good for penetration. This taper is something NGH did with his smallest anchors, so it's a change I feel comfortable with. Likewise, while NGH used a different rode-attachment system than mine for most of his anchors --a sort of shackle that slipped onto the stock as if the stock was the shackle pin (ABI and Luke do the same)-- on his smallest anchors NGH used something like the system I did, with a separate ring. Since the folding-stock design doesn't lend itself to the "shackle" arrangement (which I expect is why NGH did what he did), I followed NGH's lead and used a ring on mine even though it's a larger anchor than those NGH used that attachment system on.

    So no, it's not a strict NGH/HMCo copy, but an HMCo/ABI hybrid with careful attention paid to the principles behind those designs. Will it work? Given how many different fisherman-style anchor designs have gone to sea and held adequately, I'm pretty confident it'll hold --until overwhelmed by conditions, just as *any* anchor, right down to a kelleg, will hold until overwhelmed by conditions. Will it hold as well, pound for pound, as an HMCo anchor? I think it'll do pretty well, but I'd love to do a comparison test just to further learn from NGH, the master. If nothing else I look forward to dragging it around on the flats at low tide to see how it sets, and then, if all goes well, to having it aboard.

    So... Long answer to a short question.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post

    The gating will be interesting. I'm not a foundryman, just a hedge-patternmaker, but looking at it, I might run a sprue down the length of the shank and gate into both the inside of one fluke and up near the head where those cores are; maybe even with a riser atop the crown, opposite the saddle for the folded stock, since that's the heftiest part of the casting. That's me guessing, though. What do you think? How would you gate it? You've done a lot more metal pouring than I have.

    Alex
    I think I'd set the flask at a slight angle and bottom feed with a couple of large reservoirs of metal at both ends to cope with shrinkage and feed directly into the lower one. There would be a lot of metal in the shank and my flask likely wouldn't have enough to fill a good runner system as well.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    As promised, the finished product:







    It weighs considerably less than I had calculated/expected --18.6# instead of the 20-25# I had aimed for. I'm slightly concerned about that, as I sized the flukes and calculated the bill angle for the penetrating power of something 25% heavier. So... I'll have to go try it out and see how I like it. I intend to go drag it around on a friend's "beach" (muddy shingle) sometime soon here, to see what it does.

    One intended feature is already a success, though: except for the sharpened bills, there aren't any hard edges. It's a much more pleasant anchor to handle than her original 35# ABI, aka The Beast, which has all sorts of sharp edges.

    Anyway, the foundry did a corker of a job, of course, so at least it'll look really good, catted up and ready to go --and we all know that's the most important aspect of an anchor. Right?

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    I don't understand what you have done with the cotter that wedges the stock in place.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    As promised, the finished product:







    It weighs considerably less than I had calculated/expected --18.6# instead of the 20-25# I had aimed for. I'm slightly concerned about that, as I sized the flukes and calculated the bill angle for the penetrating power of something 25% heavier. So... I'll have to go try it out and see how I like it. I intend to go drag it around on a friend's "beach" (muddy shingle) sometime soon here, to see what it does.

    One intended feature is already a success, though: except for the sharpened bills, there aren't any hard edges. It's a much more pleasant anchor to handle than her original 35# ABI, aka The Beast, which has all sorts of sharp edges.

    Anyway, the foundry did a corker of a job, of course, so at least it'll look really good, catted up and ready to go --and we all know that's the most important aspect of an anchor. Right?

    Alex
    Doh! Looks gorgeous.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    I don't understand what you have done with the cotter that wedges the stock in place.
    It's a simple tapered fid, made from flat stock. I've spliced a piece of heavy seine twine to the wide end of the fid, as a lanyard. The other end of the lanyard is spliced to a little bronze shackle I had lying around. The shackle pin goes through a hole in the narrow end of the fid, once the fid is in place, to prevent the fid from falling out.

    The safety shackle may be overkill, but the events of "We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea," chapter VIII, had a profound influence on my opinions of anchors and anchoring, and I've never since been able to trust a fid to stay in all on its own.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    It's a simple tapered fid, made from flat stock. I've spliced a piece of heavy seine twine to the wide end of the fid, as a lanyard. The other end of the lanyard is spliced to a little bronze shackle I had lying around. The shackle pin goes through a hole in the narrow end of the fid, once the fid is in place, to prevent the fid from falling out.

    The safety shackle may be overkill, but the events of "We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea," chapter VIII, had a profound influence on my opinions of anchors and anchoring, and I've never since been able to trust a fid to stay in all on its own.

    Alex
    I thought that was what I was seeing.
    This is what I am more used to
    GEDC0161.jpgGEDC0162.jpg
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    I had the same anchor on Magic, I think. Its key had a second hole and a small snap hook.

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Alex, it's a shame that it may be a tad too light for Bucephalus. Pity. But, on the bright side, I know of a certain sixteen footer that would stay happily at rest with it.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    This is what I am more used to
    Yes, that's what I grew up with --the identical anchor, I think. I'm just paranoid that the fid will work loose.

    I had the same anchor on Magic, I think. Its key had a second hole and a small snap hook.
    The ones I grew up with used snap-hooks as safeties, too, instead of shackles, but the springs never seemed to last. Since I had that little shackle, I put it to use.

    Alex, it's a shame that it may be a tad too light for Bucephalus. Pity. But, on the bright side, I know of a certain sixteen footer that would stay happily at rest with it.
    It always warms my heart, the generosity of folks on this forum. And indeed, I know of an exceptionally pretty 16-footer, of your acquaintence, who would likely put such an anchor to good use. If it doesn't work out aboard B., I'll be sure to get in touch with you.

    In the meantime, Port Townsend Foundry has the pattern, and Pete seemed very excited about it, so I'm sure he'll be happy to cast others.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    That's really nice Alex. Thank you for sharing.

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    Yes, that's what I grew up with --the identical anchor, I think. I'm just paranoid that the fid will work loose.




    Alex
    If the taper is right it should not fall out, but a small bend or twist will make certain. Some fids were made of two thickness's of metal so that they could be opened out like a split pin. Then the lanyard can be used to secure the fid to the anchor shank.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    That is gorgeous! Stunning, even! I might be giving the Foundry a call myself.

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Some fids were made of two thickness's of metal so that they could be opened out like a split pin.
    I *really* like that idea! Make the fid out of a half-thickness piece of something springy, like phosphor bronze sheet, doubled over. Splay the ends a bit. Squeeze the ends together to insert it through the mortise, and once it has been pushed through, it should stay in place fairly reliably. Form the fold like the roll of a hinge, and it'll end up as a tube for a lanyard to affix through.

    I may need to find a source for 5/64" full-hard phosphor bronze sheet, then go play in the shop.

    Thanks, Nick!

    I'm tremendously pleased how much pleasure you folks are getting from it. You're making my weekend.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    I *really* like that idea! Make the fid out of a half-thickness piece of something springy, like phosphor bronze sheet, doubled over. Splay the ends a bit. Squeeze the ends together to insert it through the mortise, and once it has been pushed through, it should stay in place fairly reliably. Form the fold like the roll of a hinge, and it'll end up as a tube for a lanyard to affix through.

    I may need to find a source for 5/64" full-hard phosphor bronze sheet, then go play in the shop.

    Thanks, Nick!

    I'm tremendously pleased how much pleasure you folks are getting from it. You're making my weekend.

    Alex
    Be aware, it must still be tapped in tight to push the shank against the shoulder on the stock to stop the stock from wobbling and wriggling in its hole.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Here's a (somewhat) better photo of what is going on with the fid:



    And the general arrangement of the lanyard and safety shackle:



    One of the things that always p***es me off about folding stock anchors --or any anchor with moving parts, for that matter-- is how easy it is to get pinched when moving them around when they're folded. To that end, on both this anchor and on the little 6# job I patterned ages ago, I cast a saddle into the crown, to help stabilize the stock when it's folded. Here it is with the folded stock lying beside the saddle:



    And with the stock secured in the saddle:



    Stock saddles are a generally good idea for horses, but it turns out they're handy on anchors, too.

    Ideally I'd secure the stock with a bight of the fid's lanyard, pushed up through the hole in the crown (which is, in theory, for a tripline), looped around the end of the stock, and tied off --that's what I do with the little version-- but I wasn't thinking so quickly as I ought, this morning when I started splicing, and I made the lanyard too short to loop around the end of the stock. Guess I'll need to splice up a new one.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    Guess I'll need to splice up a new one.

    Alex
    When you do make sure that it permanently attaches the fid to the anchor. That is more important than being able to tie the stock into its saddle.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Either the lanyard is down at the crown holding the stock folded or, when the anchor is stocked, it's girth hitched to the ring. Either way, the fid isn't likely to wander off.

    But yes, good point. The primary function of the lanyard is keep the fid with the anchor.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    I know it wouldn't be especially pretty, but could some lead be cast to fit? It wouldn't take much to raise the overall weight. The lead bits could be fastened with machine screws.

    Something to consider only if the anchor tests prove it to be too light. But perhaps an idea to provide some hope, just in case.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post

    I'm tremendously pleased how much pleasure you folks are getting from it. You're making my weekend.

    Alex
    I don't think you could post too many pics of Bucephalus - either in whole or in parts.
    How about another pic of her stove? I really should start saving some of these.

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Might not be a bad idea to have a spare key just in case. That lanyard wont keep it from falling overboard or into an inaccessable area of the bilge (unless you have one like Nick's). Beautiful work though.

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    I know it wouldn't be especially pretty, but could some lead be cast to fit?
    Interesting idea, but probably not feasible. Instead, I'd grind back the bill angle, to make it sharper, to improve penetration, and perhaps grind the flukes a bit narrower for the same effect. I'm not going to worry about it too much until I've had a chance to test it, though. The balance feels quite good, with the majority of the weight down in the crown, so that's promising.

    I don't think you could post too many pics of Bucephalus - either in whole or in parts.
    That's awfully nice of you. I can't offer any sincere humility, either. Ralph built a very pretty boat. I'm very lucky to have her.

    How about another pic of her stove?
    I don't have any recent ones, I don't think. In fact, I think I've posted everything I have. In case I've missed any, this thread, over on Classic Campstoves, has the best of them: https://classiccampstoves.com/thread...part-ii.22988/

    Might not be a bad idea to have a spare key just in case.
    That's a fine idea. Thank you. I'll build one.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    For anyone who may have missed it...

    PITSLIGO'S STOVE ON BUCEPHALUS.jpg

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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Bucephalus



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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Pattern Photos for Peter

    Not quite as interesting, because I forgot my camera, but I took the new anchor down to the beach to see how it acted.

    With about 6:1 scope (3/4" 3-strand nylon, no chain), and in mixed gravel, sand, and shell, it tipped and set --the fluke buried to where the shank was almost level with the surface-- in about 20". Not too bad. And that's where it stayed: I couldn't get it to bury deeper, to where the shank was covered, but in gravel/sand/shell, that doesn't really surprise me.

    Of course when it reached that point, I couldn't move it, either. I had the "rode" over my shoulder, and was able to lean against it enough to cantilever myself out to an angle where I would have face-planted properly had the anchor come loose. So it did set soundly; I wasn't holding back.

    That said, myself and a friend a bit bigger than me (I'm 145#) *were* together able to drag it through the beach. It was a bit of a grunt, and with him between me and the anchor the effective scope was only about 4:1 (it was *very* interesting to see how the difference in scope changed the anchor's action), but it did drag. So it's hardly an infallible hook. However, for an 18# anchor holding a 19' sloop, it's not bad.

    Keeping things in perspective, were I standing on a dock holding my boat's bow line it would take a lot of wind to produce enough resistance on the boat to pull her out of my hands --in other words, it would take a lot of wind to create enough resistance to exceed the strain I alone was putting on the anchor today. Yes, there are other considerations --is she wiggling the anchor loose by hunting?, is wave action / other boats' wakes shock-loading the anchor?-- but for general good weather use, I'm feeling pretty good about this new hook.

    I'm looking forward to being down on my friend's beach at a lower tide, when we can try the anchor in the soft mud that wasn't exposed today.

    Alex

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