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Thread: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

  1. #36
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    i wouldn't blame her being a woman for why she failed. heck, i'd say it's bc she's a woman that she got as far as she did.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i wouldn't blame her being a woman for why she failed. heck, i'd say it's bc she's a woman that she got as far as she did.
    Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!!!!

    Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!! 228 years of male presidents, not one single female, and for the majority of that time women couldn't even vote - and AlanMc thinks Hillary Clinton got where she was because she's female. Six impossible things before breakfast!! Esteemed sir, you are hereby presented with the Bilge Golden Shovel Award! Well done!!


    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!!!!

    Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!! 228 years of male presidents, not one single female, and for the majority of that time women couldn't even vote - and AlanMc thinks Hillary Clinton got where she was because she's female. Six impossible things before breakfast!! Esteemed sir, you are hereby presented with the Bilge Golden Shovel Award! Well done!!




    she was an awful candidate keith. terrible. even most of your own liberals admit she was awful. so why was she pushed so far ahead of the other GOOD candidates?

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    she was an awful candidate keith. terrible. even most of your own liberals admit she was awful. so why was she pushed so far ahead of the other GOOD candidates?
    She was ahead of them mostly because she is talented and experienced. Our complaint is that her talent and experience did not extend to campaigning. That may be necessary to getting elected, but it is not central to governing. She would have done a very good job and, arguably, she would not have had the problems that Bernie would have had because she was a centrist.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    then when somebody like me or brian or dan tells you we don't like her and didn't want to vote for her, why don't you just accept that our lack of exuberant support for her had nothing at all to do with her being a woman?

    your constant echoing shrill whine of sexist bigotry wrt hillary becomes tiresome
    she lost because she was a bad candidate
    that she lost to donald effing trump shouts to the world just how bad a candidate she was
    Because we know that even the best of us can fall prey to phenomenon like institutional racism or sexism. Whether we are aware of it or not, and most of us aren't... that's part of the phenomena.

    Because we know that even the best of us can be affected by years of mud-slinging, unfounded charges, unceasing innuendo, and suchlike.

    I'm not saying that she she'd have been my first choice. I'm simply saying that she was the better choice when compared to D.Tramp. Make a list of everything you dislike about her - with no regard to whether any item is justified or not. Then rate D.Tramp for each item. Better or worse? I'm betting that an honest appraisal, even if you've been infected by the two items mentioned above, would STILL put her on top.

    We really do need to cut loose of this 'all or nothing' notion. The perfect really CAN be the enemy of the good. especially in politics.
    David G
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  6. #41
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    No, Hillary Clinton wasn't a terrible candidate, nor a terrible campaigner; that's nonsense. She wasn't as inspiring and eloquent as Obama, few people are. She's not very good at faking sincerity, she's too detail-oriented and wonky for a standard campaign speech, and there's been a long, long campaign to make her look like the devil himself. But again, compare her to any other candidate over the past 25 years, and she comes off OK; not the best, not the worst.

    I am not making accusations. I am pointing out that people have a tendency to judge Ms. Clinton by very different standards than other presidential candidates, and speculating that this has much to do with her being female.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 09-13-2017 at 12:16 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    how bad of a candidate was hillary? how bad of a campaigner was hillary?

    the number one legitimate complaint against her was that she was too close to wall street; so what does she do, she chooses a vp candidate that is even closer to wall street than she is and one who is actually a vocal apologist for wall street, big banks, and big insurance institutions

    that not just douchebaggeriness on her part, that's just stupid
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    No, Hillary Clinton wasn't a terrible candidate, nor a terrible campaigner; that's nonsense.
    campaigning in texas the day before the election, instead of i don't know. . . . . . . michigan maybe, was just plain stupid keith
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Hindsight bias.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Hindsight bias.
    bull****, i posted these exact words about kaine to this forum within minutes of him being announced as her vp
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Because we know that even the best of us can be affected by years of mud-slinging, unfounded charges, unceasing innuendo, and suchlike.
    But let's be honest, POTUS plays in a full-contact arena. She withstood 20 years of lies against her, but she failed to convince the voters they were lies!

    And then she gets caught in a needless and totally avoidable server fiasco that she should have seen coming and I don't care how many former Secretaries of State did the exact same thing. It was dumb and it was unprofessional.

    On this point, she lacked the basic skills.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Biden. Biden. Biden. Eliteist, nope. Charismatic, yup. Experienced, yup. Sensitive, apparently.
    “What, Me Worry?". -. A. E. Newman

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Biden. Biden. Biden. Eliteist, nope. Charismatic, yup. Experienced, yup. Sensitive, apparently.
    Running? Nope.

    Believe me, I'd have voted for him if he had run.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    All she needed was to diss everyone's appearance, have a few embarrassing clips of her grabbing guys asses, say a few things that fearful victimized white folks are thinking and she coulda won, she coulda won!

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Y'know, I voted for her. I also wish she would just go away. There is no excuse for losing, even in the Electoral College, to the worst presidential candidate in history. NONE. To have squandered her competence, jeesh. It's like Bubba squandering his presidency for a chunky intern. Jeesh. Human frailties...

    Meanwhile, Bernie introduced a Medicare for all bill today. Now that's what I am talkin' about.
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Go away? Check out this interview posted 4 hours ago where she trashes Sanders:

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...cid=spartandhp

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Choosing a president has nothing to do with whether you "like" a person or not. Has anyone ever met any of these people and been able to make a personal assessment or are we basing the decision on facial symmetry?

    Like choosing a dog trainer, a prison guard, a sheriff or a judge, it is only about competence, everything else is just hearsay and advertising.
    I wasn't going to give a serious reply here but I am willing to quote one. Nothing really to add to this.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Go away? Check out this interview posted 4 hours ago where she trashes Sanders:

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...cid=spartandhp
    She is 100% correct about Bernie. He appeals to the Left the same way Trump appeals to the right. And the crossover in support is real, even if a bit confusing to those of us who can think straight.

    Hillary is getting her two cents in now to nudge the historical narrative. Let's talk again in 20 years.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    The folks talking about how Ms. Clinton should just vanish are again applying a different standard than for previous candidates. Did anyone say that about Al Gore (who also won the popular vote)? Not that I remember.

    There's a very intersting l conversation about this at fivethirtyeight.con, which you can read here. A bit too meta- for my tastes, but that's what they do. A bit long,but well worth it.

    Much of what she says about Bernie Sanders is dead accurate.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    No, Hillary Clinton wasn't a terrible candidate, nor a terrible campaigner; that's nonsense. She wasn't as inspiring and eloquent as Obama, few people are. She's not very good at faking sincerity, she's too detail-oriented and wonky for a standard campaign speech, and there's been a long, long campaign to make her look like the devil himself. But again, compare her to any other candidate over the past 25 years, and she comes off OK; not the best, not the worst.

    I am not making accusations. I am pointing out that people have a tendency to judge Ms. Clinton by very different standards than other presidential candidates, and speculating that this has much to do with her being female.
    Being a woman may have been a problem, but playing a stereotype of an ineffectual woman was a lot worse. She is no Ann Richards.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    I listened to it. While I've never been a huge fan of her's. I remember way back when she made her successful run as a NY Senator, I never liked her. In the interview to sell her book, I thought she came off as she always has, a bit shrill, snaky, blaming herself, but always adding outside influences.

    That said, what she has always come off as, is a incredibly, smart, articulate, consummate politician, who just doesn't connect with the uneducated, angry, white, males. I will even further to say not only does she not connect with them, she absolutely makes them even more angry, more uneducated and even more white.

    In the end would I have grit my teeth and dealt with her as president. Do I think she would have done a better job than the uncontrollable dumpster fire we currently have HELL YES !!! The difference between the two is astounding and if you feel it was the right person lost and not recognize the disaster that won you need to take a hard look in the mirror.

    What won was angry, uneducated, racist, xenophobic, science denying bullies. I'll take Hillary any freaking day, all day.

    As for the book I'm not buying.
    Damn straight and fair.
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  22. #57

    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!!!!

    Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!! 228 years of male presidents, not one single female, and for the majority of that time women couldn't even vote - and AlanMc thinks Hillary Clinton got where she was because she's female. Six impossible things before breakfast!! Esteemed sir, you are hereby presented with the Bilge Golden Shovel Award! Well done!!


    She got where she was on Bill Clinton's coat tails, without Bill she never would have been a presidential candidate or a senator from New York or the secretary of state for that matter.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    She got where she was on Bill Clinton's coat tails, without Bill she never would have been a presidential candidate or a senator from New York or the secretary of state for that matter.
    I suspect there's some truth to that comment. I'm just not sure precisely How Much truth...
    David G
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  24. #59

    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I suspect there's some truth to that comment. I'm just not sure precisely How Much truth...
    Show me a path to her becoming a senator from New York if Bill wasn't president...

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    None of it means a darned thing. The next election is the one that matters.

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    She got where she was on Bill Clinton's coat tails, without Bill she never would have been a presidential candidate or a senator from New York or the secretary of state for that matter.
    I'm not entirely sure about that. I've had some debate about whether Bill would have gotten to the lofty positions he arrived at without the drive and ambition of Hillary.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    She got where she was on Bill Clinton's coat tails, without Bill she never would have been a presidential candidate or a senator from New York or the secretary of state for that matter.
    it is a traditional thing, though, to look for political dynasties. Bush. Clinton. Kennedy. In Canada, we have Trudeau, but any number of lesser names whose families have still been political for generations. Partly, it is trading on the predecessor's glory, but partly it is name recognition. We do it in anything which has some elements of popularity contests - Natalie Cole or Hank Williams Jr would never have made their way in popular music without their fathers' names. Neither would Kiefer Sutherland or Drew Barrymore made it in acting. All 4 became really fine in their fields, but none were good enough at the start of their careers to supercede more talented or beautiful nobodies who didn't have the cachet and selling power of a family name.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  28. #63

    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    I'm not entirely sure about that. I've had some debate about whether Bill would have gotten to the lofty positions he arrived at without the drive and ambition of Hillary.
    I'm not disagreeing with you but if Bill doesn't become president she doesn't become a senator from New York another state perhaps and that's a stretch.

  29. #64

    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    it is a traditional thing, though, to look for political dynasties. Bush. Clinton. Kennedy. In Canada, we have Trudeau, but any number of lesser names whose families have still been political for generations. Partly, it is trading on the predecessor's glory, but partly it is name recognition. We do it in anything which has some elements of popularity contests - Natalie Cole or Hank Williams Jr would never have made their way in popular music without their fathers' names. Neither would Kiefer Sutherland or Drew Barrymore made it in acting. All 4 became really fine in their fields, but none were good enough at the start of their careers to supercede more talented or beautiful nobodies who didn't have the cachet and selling power of a family name.
    Yes the political popularity and achievements were not hers, the Democratic party leaders ran her like she was entitled to the office, sometimes being a prodigy isn't enough. Policy statements and papers are wonderful and very important, but in the end to much baggage.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    I'm not entirely sure about that. I've had some debate about whether Bill would have gotten to the lofty positions he arrived at without the drive and ambition of Hillary.
    In my opinion, Hillary's career shows more capability, more drive, more skill than Bill's. By far.

    She came within the hair on a gnat's ass of being the first female POTUS, and the most powerful woman in human history.

    She got beat down by the gut impulse, the basest instincts, of a population fearing diminished power and influence.

    In the grand scheme of history, she will be venerated. The struggle she fought was invisible to many, but it will be obvious to everyone in the fullness of time.

    The election cycle of 2016 will be analyzed correctly when today's voters are mostly dead. That's just the way it goes.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    No, Hillary Clinton wasn't a terrible candidate, nor a terrible campaigner; that's nonsense.
    First time I've EVER though you were dead wrong or ideologically blind. This is a remarkable - she was the worst campaigner for President in decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    But again, compare her to any other candidate over the past 25 years, and she comes off OK; not the best, not the worst.
    I call B.S. Mitt Romney, Al Gore, Michael Dukakis (to name a few) and Hillary Clinton. They were all SAVAGED beyond their gaffes. Why? Because they were seen as being somewhere on a spectrum of cluelessness, arrogance, coldness, and inauthenticity. Candidates like Clinton (Bill), Bush the Younger, and Trump sailed through with BLINDINGLY brilliant flaws because they knew how to project "aw shucks regular guy" on TV. Demeanor matters, even if you don't think it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I am not making accusations. I am pointing out that people have a tendency to judge Ms. Clinton by very different standards than other presidential candidates, and speculating that this has much to do with her being female.
    Sure. And some people hated Obama because he's black.

    But most people hated Ms. Clinton, or merely tolerated her, for her character and demeanor, not her gender.

    Thank God her sell-by date has come and gone. Her book sounds like a real dud, a coda of cluelessness. I wish her well in her humanitarian endeavors, where she seems to actually exhibit a beating heart and warm blood. She may kindly exit the political stage now, never to return. Thank you.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Why? Because they were seen as being somewhere on a spectrum of cluelessness, arrogance, coldness, and inauthenticity. Candidates like Clinton (Bill), Bush the Younger, and Trump sailed through with BLINDINGLY brilliant flaws because they knew how to project "aw shucks regular guy" on TV.
    Trump pegged the clueless, arrogant, cold and inauthentic meter. Trump has never and can never project aw shucks regular guy. Trump channels the ideas of what poor people think rich people are. His was a rambling narrative of wish fulfillment for White America. A supersized meal of political junk food.

    Ultimately Hillary had 30 years of political baggage to overcome in her campaign. People like the OP would never have been convinced; they need the usual collection of lies, half truths, slander, innuendo and junk well displayed in this thread. It's why she lost and why we have the Trumpster fire instead.
    Last edited by Hugh Conway; 09-13-2017 at 08:32 PM.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Trump pegged the clueless, arrogant, cold and inauthentic meter. Trump has never and can never project aw shucks regular guy.
    I see your disgust with Trump and raise you $20.

    The 24% of the country who voted for him and the 32% who still support him (including those who didn't vote) don't see it that way. They like him. I know, right?

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    The 24% of the country who voted for him and the 32% who still support him (including those who didn't vote) don't see it that way. They like him. I know, right?
    saw some factoid that 98% of Trump primary voters still support him. It's an impressively loyal base.

    but from the ones I've talked to they like him because they can project him as a political savior, imbued with fantastic qualities, not because he's a regular guy. It's a myth, a delusion, a TV creation. Those are hard to kill with facts when people won't listen to fact anymore.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    The folks talking about how Ms. Clinton should just vanish are again applying a different standard than for previous candidates. Did anyone say that about Al Gore (who also won the popular vote)? Not that I remember.

    There's a very intersting l conversation about this at fivethirtyeight.con, which you can read here. A bit too meta- for my tastes, but that's what they do. A bit long,but well worth it.

    Much of what she says about Bernie Sanders is dead accurate.
    If you haven't read Keiths post, and followed the link - I'd encourage you to do so. Nice, fair, accurate analysis. Might gain you some insights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    She got where she was on Bill Clinton's coat tails, without Bill she never would have been a presidential candidate or a senator from New York or the secretary of state for that matter.
    I'd disagree; highly accomplished, very smart, ambitious - Bill did 'aw shucks' well; HRC likely has more HP under the hood. AFA 'where/how did you get there' - name recognition is big in this yuuge, uneducated populace. Trump capitalized on that. Gonna criticize him, as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    In my opinion, Hillary's career shows more capability, more drive, more skill than Bill's. By far.

    She came within the hair on a gnat's ass of being the first female POTUS, and the most powerful woman in human history.

    She got beat down by the gut impulse, the basest instincts, of a population fearing diminished power and influence.

    In the grand scheme of history, she will be venerated. The struggle she fought was invisible to many, but it will be obvious to everyone in the fullness of time.

    The election cycle of 2016 will be analyzed correctly when today's voters are mostly dead. That's just the way it goes.
    Truth. And spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    First time I've EVER though you were dead wrong or ideologically blind. This is a remarkable - she was the worst campaigner for President in decades.



    I call B.S. Mitt Romney, Al Gore, Michael Dukakis (to name a few) and Hillary Clinton. They were all SAVAGED beyond their gaffes. Why? Because they were seen as being somewhere on a spectrum of cluelessness, arrogance, coldness, and inauthenticity. Candidates like Clinton (Bill), Bush the Younger, and Trump sailed through with BLINDINGLY brilliant flaws because they knew how to project "aw shucks regular guy" on TV. Demeanor matters, even if you don't think it does.



    Sure. And some people hated Obama because he's black.

    But most people hated Ms. Clinton, or merely tolerated her, for her character and demeanor, not her gender.

    Thank God her sell-by date has come and gone. Her book sounds like a real dud, a coda of cluelessness. I wish her well in her humanitarian endeavors, where she seems to actually exhibit a beating heart and warm blood. She may kindly exit the political stage now, never to return. Thank you.
    I rather like this - simply because, if a smart guy such as yourself is that susceptible to 'gut reaction' and decision - what chance do the dumb people have?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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