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Thread: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

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    Default NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Listened to part of her interview today on NPR, about her new book.

    Convinced me the right person lost, even if the wrong person won.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".
    What are your thoughts on the interview?
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Listened to part of her interview today on NPR, about her new book.

    Convinced me the right person lost, even if the wrong person won.
    Yep. Pretty much a "Whine and Jeez" evening
    It takes a child to raze a village.
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    She's deathly scared of the Article V Convention of States movement. And she reminds me of Leona Helmsley.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Big mistake on her part, must be missing the limelight. .

    Surely the Dem's have more than her and Bernie in their locker?

    It's a bit sad that 'none of the above' would garner the most support, as it likely would here.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    I listened to it. While I've never been a huge fan of her's. I remember way back when she made her successful run as a NY Senator, I never liked her. In the interview to sell her book, I thought she came off as she always has, a bit shrill, snaky, blaming herself, but always adding outside influences.

    That said, what she has always come off as, is a incredibly, smart, articulate, consummate politician, who just doesn't connect with the uneducated, angry, white, males. I will even further to say not only does she not connect with them, she absolutely makes them even more angry, more uneducated and even more white.

    In the end would I have grit my teeth and dealt with her as president. Do I think she would have done a better job than the uncontrollable dumpster fire we currently have HELL YES !!! The difference between the two is astounding and if you feel it was the right person lost and not recognize the disaster that won you need to take a hard look in the mirror.

    What won was angry, uneducated, racist, xenophobic, science denying bullies. I'll take Hillary any freaking day, all day.

    As for the book I'm not buying.
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Listened to part of her interview today on NPR, about her new book.

    Convinced me the right person lost, even if the wrong person won.
    That's some interesting reasoning.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    That's some interesting reasoning.
    41nwRbzVcnL.jpg

    Fairly widespread though. Hillary and Trump were probably the two most disliked candidates in history. Polling put 53% of republicans voting against Hillary and 46% of democrats voting against Trump. As opposed to actually voting for their own candidate. Very few were going to be happy, regardless who won.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Listened to part of her interview today on NPR, about her new book.

    Convinced me the right person lost, even if the wrong person won.
    I liked the comments in https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.cb84f001fc91

    Another reason these Obama voters defected to Trump is that they kept hearing from Clinton and the Democrats how great the economy was doing. Yet, according to Priorities USA Action, “50 percent of Obama-Trump voters said their incomes are falling behind the cost of living, and another 31 percent said their incomes are merely keeping pace with the cost of living.” When Clinton touted Obama’s economic progress, she seemed hopelessly out of touch.
    She has a lot of company as many individuals are out of touch.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    I saw her on NBC this morning. I still like her and I'm sure she would have been a great President.
    Last edited by SKIP KILPATRICK; 09-13-2017 at 08:42 AM.
    Skip

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    50 percent of Obama-Trump voters said their incomes are falling behind the cost of living, and another 31 percent said their incomes are merely keeping pace with the cost of living.

    I can't see that changing under Trump, it's a long term labour relations problem. Employers almost never pay more than they are allowed to, or forced to unless the labour supply dictates. Wages have been falling in real terms for 30 years and many more jobs are part time now. I expect it to get worse

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    I saw her on 60 Minutes (?) this past weekend. She really does not get it. The only reason that Bernie was able to gain traction is because the Democratic Party was to her left. That may have been a calculation, but it left a lot of votes very disenchanted.

    Still, I fault the Sanders voters for not voting for her in the general election. That was just childish.

    She was certainly right about Comey raising doubts just days before the election and then keeping silent when he knew something was going on between Trump and Russia. He deserves a smack down for that.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    I'm always a little mystified at the strong negative reaction to Hillary Clinton. She's mostly middle-of the road or slightly left, intelligent, articulate, quite competent, takes her job very seriously, and is considerably less slimy than the average for long-time politicians. The complaints about whining and arrogance are utter nonsense when you compare her to the average politician with a Y chromosome. She certainly has her faults; so do we all, but compared to Trump, she looks like a combination of the best parts of Gandhi and Einstein. I can certainly understand why someone wouldn't want to vote for her, and would prefer Sanders or Obama or McCain or Romney or whoever; I did prefer Obama, in fact - but the degree of dislike, hatred even, is just downright weird. And the conspiracy bullsh!t involving her that's common among otherwise intelligent people on the right is utterly bizarre.

    My suspicion is that a large amount of it is because she's the first woman to get near the presidency.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 09-13-2017 at 09:06 AM.
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Been watching her hype her book. It makes it even more obvious why she lost. She shares Trump's narcissism, without his personal appeal. She is incredibly inept in making a speech or a point. She cringes in Trump's presence, when she is supposed to be able to stand up to Putin. Her resume looks good, but her inability to create a presence in public is pathetic. Can't understand how she managed to get nominated to begin with. She does a lot of damage to the party to this day.
    Last edited by Dan McCosh; 09-13-2017 at 09:44 AM.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Been watching her hype her book. It makes it even more obvious why she lost. She shares Trump's narcissism, without his personal appeal. She is incredibly inept in making a speech or a point. She cringes in Trump's presence, when she is supposed to be able to stand up to Putin. Her resume looks good, but the inability in create a presence in public is pathetic. Can't understand how she managed to get nominated to begin with. She does a lot of damage to the party to this day.
    everything about the clintons, both of them, oozes entitlement; neither one of them is capable of sincerity no matter how hard they try
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    She's mostly ..., intelligent, ..., quite competent, takes her job very seriously, ...
    Any politician who misunderstands the economic condition of the bottom 50% lacks the qualities that you list.

    I am sure she would have been better than Trump for those making $250K/year. But she is no better than Trump form those making less than $60K/year.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    everything about the clintons, both of them, oozes entitlement; neither one of them is capable of sincerity no matter how hard they try
    Sincerity isn't the issue. It's her inability to fake it.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I saw her on 60 Minutes (?) this past weekend. She really does not get it. The only reason that Bernie was able to gain traction is because the Democratic Party was to her left. That may have been a calculation, but it left a lot of votes very disenchanted.

    Still, I fault the Sanders voters for not voting for her in the general election. That was just childish.

    She was certainly right about Comey raising doubts just days before the election and then keeping silent when he knew something was going on between Trump and Russia. He deserves a smack down for that.
    Its not that simple. You can believe it if you want, but there are so many other factors that come into play such as other defecting voters who could have swung it for either party due to the very small margin of victory.

    http://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812...p-survey-finds

    For example, Schaffner tells NPR that around 12 percent of Republican primary voters (including 34 percent of Ohio Gov. John Kasich voters and 11 percent of Florida Sen. Marco Rubio voters) ended up voting for Clinton.
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Sincerity isn't the issue. It's her inability to fake it.
    good point
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Again, mystifying. The Clintons supposedly 'ooze entitlement', and maybe they do. So who else have we seen as recent presidential candidates? Bush the Younger, whose family has had gigantic piles of money since the 1930s and whose father was president. John Kerry, the New England blueblood married to an heiress. John McCain, a senator since forever whose father was an Admiral. Mitt Romney, a hedge-fund manager, fer chrissake, the quintessential rich privileged white male. Obama is an exception, and I'll also leave out Trump; he's an anomaly. Nobody is required to like Ms. Clinton or to vote for her, but claiming that the Clintons, neither of whom were born wealthy or into prominent families at all, 'ooze entitlement' is quite strange. It sure looks like she's being judged by a very different standard than almost everybody else prominent in politics.

    Again, the elephant in the room is the fact that she's female.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 09-13-2017 at 10:26 AM.
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    i long for the good old days of "obama won, get over it". and most people did, as they should have. trump won, sit back and enjoy the show. rumor has it there's an intermission coming up soon

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    everything about the clintons, both of them, oozes entitlement; neither one of them is capable of sincerity no matter how hard they try
    I heard that Bill in his prime was incredibly charismatic. He could charm the thong off any intern
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Again, mystifying. The Clintons supposedly 'ooze entitlement', and maybe they do. So who do else do we have as recent presidential candidates? Bush the Younger, whose family has had gigantic piles of money since the 1930s and whose father was president. John Kerry, the New England blueblood married to an heiress. John McCain, a senator since forever whose father was an Admiral. Mitt Romney, a hedge-fund manager, fer chrissake, the quintessential rich privileged white male. Obama is an exception, and I'll also leave out Trump; he's an anomaly. Nobody is required to like Ms. Clinton or to vote for her, but it sure looks like she's being judged by a very different standard than almost everybody else prominent in politics. Again, the elephant in the room is the fact that she's female.
    You left out Al Gore. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    I would be content never to hear from Hillary Clinton again. What people don't seem to realize is that Bill is ten times the politician Hillary is. She's not good with people or with communicating. And I find her current round of interviews and articles just drives home that doesn't connect with people. She's the hard working, brown nosing third grade who doesn't understand why no one will sit with her at lunch.
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    My wife had a dream last week. She was supposed to drive a van full of seniors some place, but when she got to the van there already was a driver, so she just got on. They were going out in the country somewhere to see some flower in bloom.

    When they got there, walking around, she saw a guy and thought, hey, that was the driver, and then . . . hey, that's Tim Kaine. Everyone looked at the flowers which were pretty but the conversation was very dull; self-centered and uninformed. The End.

    I think the Kaine part is key -- generic good guy, a much less conflicted symbol. Can't blame it all on Hillary -- what of the hordes of her supporters? The Clintons made it to the top of the party by selling out so many times for so long, they forgot what they set out to do, and became the establishment. Many better people -- less compromising -- got sidelined. Not a new story. The flowers represent what we were supposed to get when the Democrats, having compromised their way to power in the form of the Clintons, finally delivered the goods.

    We rank and filers went along with each compromise along the way. They look manageable when they come one at a time.
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    You left out Al Gore. . .
    Also Bush the Elder, who I rather liked. My point is that claiming the Clintons 'ooze entitlement' is an odd sort of objection. Being born into wealth and privilege is very common for prominent politicians, and has been since the beginning of the republic. This is a problem, definitely - but why pick on Ms. Clinton for that? She wasn't born rich, and the fact that she got as far as she did with two X chromosomes is a pretty impressive example of the exact opposite of entitlement. Again, she has her share of faults, and I can see why someone wouldn't like her or want to vote for her, but she gets an astounding amount of criticism for being a perfectly ordinary politician.
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Again, the elephant in the room is the fact that she's female.
    True, but the other problems are still big problems.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Sincerity isn't the issue. It's her inability to fake it.
    .
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Choosing a president has nothing to do with whether you "like" a person or not. Has anyone ever met any of these people and been able to make a personal assessment or are we basing the decision on facial symmetry?

    Like choosing a dog trainer, a prison guard, a sheriff or a judge, it is only about competence, everything else is just hearsay and advertising.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Again, she has her share of faults, and I can see why someone wouldn't like her or want to vote for her
    then when somebody like me or brian or dan tells you we don't like her and didn't want to vote for her, why don't you just accept that our lack of exuberant support for her had nothing at all to do with her being a woman?

    your constant echoing shrill whine of sexist bigotry wrt hillary becomes tiresome
    she lost because she was a bad candidate
    that she lost to donald effing trump shouts to the world just how bad a candidate she was
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I'm always a little mystified at the strong negative reaction to Hillary Clinton. She's mostly middle-of the road or slightly left, intelligent, articulate, quite competent, takes her job very seriously, and is considerably less slimy than the average for long-time politicians. The complaints about whining and arrogance are utter nonsense when you compare her to the average politician with a Y chromosome. She certainly has her faults; so do we all, but compared to Trump, she looks like a combination of the best parts of Gandhi and Einstein. I can certainly understand why someone wouldn't want to vote for her, and would prefer Sanders or Obama or McCain or Romney or whoever; I did prefer Obama, in fact - but the degree of dislike, hatred even, is just downright weird. And the conspiracy bullsh!t involving her that's common among otherwise intelligent people on the right is utterly bizarre.

    My suspicion is that a large amount of it is because she's the first woman to get near the presidency.
    Two thoughts --

    1. Yes she's a woman. And I agree that this played a larger part in her failed candidacy than most will realize, recognize, or cop to. Just as with institutional racism... none of us wants to admit we'd succumb to such thinking. But we do.

    2. She could have been a far better president than D.Tramp. She had the background, the skills, the knowledge, and the desire. But... see #1. With a Republican legislature, it would have been another round of 'Party of No' stonewalling. The only possible variation I see from the unrealized potential of the Obama administration is the possibility that she would have had the political/gamemanship savvy and appetite that he lacked. It's possible. She has far more experience, and I believe she's personally more ruthless, at need, than Obama was inclined to be (or capable of?).
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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by switters View Post
    Its not that simple. You can believe it if you want, but there are so many other factors that come into play such as other defecting voters who could have swung it for either party due to the very small margin of victory.

    http://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812...p-survey-finds

    For example, Schaffner tells NPR that around 12 percent of Republican primary voters (including 34 percent of Ohio Gov. John Kasich voters and 11 percent of Florida Sen. Marco Rubio voters) ended up voting for Clinton.
    I never said there were no other factors and I applaud Republicans with the courage and independence of thought to vote for Clinton. What I said was that the Sanders voters who did not vote for Clinton, or just did not vote, in the general election were being childish and I stand by that remark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Choosing a president has nothing to do with whether you "like" a person or not. Has anyone ever met any of these people and been able to make a personal assessment or are we basing the decision on facial symmetry?
    Sadly, likeability has been a big factor ever since Reagan (and maybe Carter). Remember "kind of man I could have a beer with"? Look at what that got us! A lot of voters decide based on the perceived personality. It's a fool's vote, but they cast it every time.

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    And that's a large part of why I supported Obama in '08. The Republicans spent 20 years demonizing her; no matter how unjust, that has an effect.

    Most species of mammals would make a better president than Mr. Trump; that's not a very high bar.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: NPR with Hillary Clinton...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    then when somebody like me or brian or dan tells you we don't like her and didn't want to vote for her, why don't you just accept that our lack of exuberant support for her had nothing at all to do with her being a woman?

    your constant echoing shrill whine of sexist bigotry wrt hillary becomes tiresome
    she lost because she was a bad candidate
    that she lost to donald effing trump shouts to the world just how bad a candidate she was
    I'm getting tired of that sexism excuse, too, but we did hear from women in the election who were uncomfortable with her being a woman. That said, I held my nose when I voted for her and her gender had nothing to do with it. I'm getting very tired of that insulting excuse being thrown at us every time her failures as a campaigner come up.

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