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Thread: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

  1. #1

    Default Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    A classic case of boat-struck- a pretty boat, a low asking price, and a year-old survey (undertaken by a surveyor who didn't dig too deep apparently...).
    Any opinions as to whether I should run away from this ? I think I'll at least have her hauled (again) and see if I can pull the bolts out to check. Screw fasteners also, but it's the softness of the floors around the big bronze nuts/washers of the keel bolts that has me worried.
    I'm really a complete novice at any of this clearly, although why I didn't undo three screws to access the bilge and inspect the keel before I bought the boat, not after, is pretty stupid.
    Also has had some kind of large stainless steel brackets installed at some point to strengthen the join between the floors and the centre board case. Probably should have been bronze ?
    Fell over myself to pay 10000 CDN for the boat and now am beginning to see the folly of such haste !!
    New Yanmar was put in a year ago so I guess I could pull that out, worst case.
    But I just wanna sail the damn boat !
    Any opinions from these photos ( assuming I can post them.)
    Thanks..
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    You are right to be concerned. Seek expert advice on those. If it was not done right that could be a recipe for expensive problems. Hopefully it should not be difficult to source bronze angle and bolts and swap the stainless out.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    I would certainly suggest following up with due diligence. I will say I've seen much worse in the way of de-lignification. Not saying it wouldn't be an improvement to change them, but what makes you think they aren't original? There doesn't appear to be anything else tying them together, and visible is another SS nut on a rod passing down from the top on the bed-log.
    When was she built?

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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    Found your other thread imjdi, move the other thread over.

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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    Doesn't seem so horrible to me. Pretty boat. What is she?
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    Gonna be allot of guessing on this one!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  7. #7

    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    Hi nedL,
    The boat came with a fair amount of information about work done over the years- this included 'rebuilding centreboard trunk' which could mean a lot of things but which I'm sure included adding those s.s. brackets. Boat was built in 1967. Centreboard was redone in roughly 2000.
    No record of any refastening, or keel bolt inspection, unfortunately...
    The boat is a Rhodes Whistler class, mahogany over steamed bent oak.

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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    Check the electrics, bonding is bad, over zincing is bad. Does look a bit fizzy but I would not replace the stainless/galv, no point perhaps just paint appropriate surfaces with epoxy paint or bed in epoxy? Bronze and 316 stainless are fairly happy to co exist. A first class job is to haul, drop the ballast keel, inspect and replace any funky wood or wasted bolts but you could just go sailing for a few seasons and get your fun out of it then strip it for parts and have a viking funeral somewhere!
    whatever rocks your boat

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    The reason I was curios about her age was that I was going to suggest that if built in the 60's - 70's 'ish she may have been built with mixed metals like that.

    How soft is the worst of the floors? I have seen and delt with much worse delignification. If the wood seems solid even 1/8" in I don't think I'd have much concern. What we can see of her bilge looks pretty darn good.
    Pretty boat.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    I would unwind one of those nuts and check what the washer is made from.
    I've had 3/4" 'bronze' washers crumble in my fingers while investigating keel bolt leaks.

    It appears that the nut is immune.

    And just for a laugh,put a volt meter between the nut and the stainless bracket.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    This was posted in the other thread by JTA...
    https://whistlersdaughter.files.word...y-may-2016.pdf
    It's the survey from last year.

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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    I worry that someone took a shortcut and put those big notches in the tops of the floors so they could use shorter bolts. That does not look right.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    Quote Originally Posted by I might just do it View Post

    When you compare those two pictures, there is definitely something happening with the stainless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Williamson View Post
    And just for a laugh, put a volt meter between the nut and the stainless bracket.
    R
    Good shout.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  14. #14
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    Default

    I keep wondering why the OP said he just wants to go sailing! what is stopping you?

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    Don't look so bad to me either. Scrape off the fuzzy junk, spray it with "blaster" , poke the wood with an awl, go sailing.
    She a "Finnestere"?

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    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Don't look so bad to me either. Scrape off the fuzzy junk, spray it with "blaster" , poke the wood with an awl, go sailing.
    She a "Finnestere"?
    I'be been scared of keel bolts. They don't look bad. Tap them with a hammer and listen to the ring. If they ring solid and similar then don't worry. My advice is Do not tighten them.
    It it takes a lot to lose a keel. Even more when they are full. go sailing. Next haul out pull one to check otherwise don't worry until there becomes evidence. When you mess with hull and keel on the hard... the honeymoon is over.
    There is nothing you can do with an ape/human hybrid. They'll rip your arm off.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Keeo bolts and lignification...?

    Hello Ted and wizbang and all,
    Thanks for the votes to go sailing !
    But also cautions to check the bolts, which I intend to do.
    Brian, those deeply-notched floors made me scratch my head too. Nothing to do now though although, given the original hardware and fasteners were all bronze, I don't think is was a cost-savings measure.
    Don't know what the original Rhodes 'Whistler' plans look like.

    There didn't seem to be any signs of separation between lead and wood when she was hauled, but I'm just paranoid about the bloody bolts giving way and dropping the lead keel.

    Problem of the internet is that you'll find anything you want to- I've been searching, of course, 'disparate metals in wooden boats, keel bolt wastage, delignification..etc. and I can find horrible stories.
    I'm not even sure if the bolts go through the keel or are just tapped into the lead; I didn't poke around the bottom of the keel to see if the bolts come through.
    I presume they do, but who knows.
    In the mean time I think I'll just sail a little bit and hope the bolts are in as good a shape as the rest of the boat. I just want to putz around English Bay and maybe over to Bowen for the moment anyway.
    Christ this boat is a steep learning curve- interesting, and fun, when you're not worrying about what can go wrong. Which is actually quite a lot. Most of the time.
    Put her nose into the muck in the riverbank at low tide and had to have a kind local pull her off as reverse gear seemingly non-existant !
    Serious momentum.

  18. #18
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by I might just do it View Post
    Hello Ted and wizbang and all,
    Thanks for the votes to go sailing !
    But also cautions to check the bolts, which I intend to do.
    Brian, those deeply-notched floors made me scratch my head too. Nothing to do now though although, given the original hardware and fasteners were all bronze, I don't think is was a cost-savings measure.
    Don't know what the original Rhodes 'Whistler' plans look like.

    There didn't seem to be any signs of separation between lead and wood when she was hauled, but I'm just paranoid about the bloody bolts giving way and dropping the lead keel.

    Problem of the internet is that you'll find anything you want to- I've been searching, of course, 'disparate metals in wooden boats, keel bolt wastage, delignification..etc. and I can find horrible stories.
    I'm not even sure if the bolts go through the keel or are just tapped into the lead; I didn't poke around the bottom of the keel to see if the bolts come through.
    I presume they do, but who knows.
    In the mean time I think I'll just sail a little bit and hope the bolts are in as good a shape as the rest of the boat. I just want to putz around English Bay and maybe over to Bowen for the moment anyway.
    Christ this boat is a steep learning curve- interesting, and fun, when you're not worrying about what can go wrong. Which is actually quite a lot. Most of the time.
    Put her nose into the muck in the riverbank at low tide and had to have a kind local pull her off as reverse gear seemingly non-existant !
    Serious momentum.
    I had a fiberglass sailboat with an encapsulated keel I had it for close to 10 years,. It didn't have Keel bolts! for the first year or two I felt like you, after almost 10 years there was not even the slightest indication that the fiberglass encapsulating the keel had any problems whatsoever. The good thing about bolted on keels are the "safety in numbers" of the bolts.

    My only suggestion is get out there and use the boat!! even if you don't sail her, learn how to handle, dock, use the engine, reverse forward if you have to take sailing lessons take them.

    If you don't use the boat you won't fall in love with her, if you don't fall in love with her, she'll become another dock dolly or a dried out hulk, she's beautiful!!

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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