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Thread: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for security?

  1. #1
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    Default Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for security?

    Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for security?

    I have occasionally rowed and paddled the Point San Pablo / Point Orient part of San Francisco Bay, and on my older printed waterproof NOAA charts sections between Pt. Molate and Pt. Orient show as security zones, set (I believe) when this was an active Navy fueling area. This photo from a kayaking site shows those restricted areas -



    But the current charts on the NOAA website only show the security zone around the refinery tanker dock south of the Richmond / San Rafael bridge, not the areas between Castro Pt. and Pt. Orient. Zooming in and out doesn't change anything.

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for secur

    You can look in the compass rose of any paper chart to find out when it was last updated.The electronic charts update dates are in the lower left corner of the chart. This chart you are displaying is 18654, I believe. Seems it was updated just last week.

    In addition, there is nothing in the " Notes" on the chart's periphery to indicate it's a restricted area. However, since the older chart shows the restriction, it might be worth a call to the local USCG station to ask.

    Changes to charts, navaids and special regulations or information about events or construction are happening all the time. The Local Notice To Mariners lists these changes. You can subscribe for free to the LNM here.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for secur

    That whole area is regulated, high speed ferry and etc...


    IMG_3114.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for secur

    ^ I think he was referring to the " restricted areas" between the jetties shown on the west side of Point San Pablo.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for secur

    My electronic NOAA chart...

    IMG_3115.jpg

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for secur

    Yes, we encountered the high speed ferry -- luckily we had the Brothers to hide behind. And we boldly paddled into the restricted area to get a good look at the ruined Winehaven "castle" - very cool!

    My Facebook album of photos from today's trip - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=34bb77970e


    Heading south towards Point Molate is Winehaven, an abandoned winery and WWII Navy base. 100 years ago it was the largest winery on the West Coast for 12 years - until Prohibition shut it down.




    Sure seems a mystery to me, as this NOAA site doesn't show the restricted areas like the older charts do...
    http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18649.shtml
    Last edited by Thorne; 09-10-2017 at 10:50 PM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for secur

    Sure seems a mystery to me, as this NOAA site doesn't show the restricted areas like the older charts do...
    Maybe the area is no longer restricted?

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for secur

    Pt. Molate hasn't been operational as a fuel pier for quite some time. (Casualty of the base realignment programs.) It used to be used to fill MSTS and Navy fuel tankers, but that's long gone. I've never seen anything but a tanker loading there back when it was in the Navy's hands. As there's no fuel running out onto the pier, there's nothing to secure.

    Note the regs: There's a standing order on the Bay for a 500 yard exclusionary zone around all tankers, cruise ships, and "HVA's." An "HVA" is a "high value asset, which would include all naval vessels and all shore facilities which might be targets for terrorist activity. As the HVAs are sometimes difficult to identify, if you get too close to one, the Coasties will let you know if you violate the exclusionary zone. Major moving HVAs are usually escorted by USCG patrol craft. Pt. Molate pier simply isn't an HVA anymore. Richmond Long Wharf definitely is an HVA and so is marked on the chart.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for secur

    Bob - I agree with your logic, and suspect that the old Restricted Area designation for the shoreline from Molate to Orient was a holdover from days of yore, now removed from the current NOAA charts. We shall see how it plays out with further trips in the area.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for secur

    I believe that Uncle Sam no longer prints charts, but relies on a number of "Print on demand" vendors.

    One can download, for free, PDFs of charts. THese are updated regularly (like weekly). https://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/pdfcharts/

    Makes it easy to download charts, and printout what you need at a size suitable for a small boat. I print them out full size on 8.5 x 11 paper and tape the sections together. I draw a line on each minute of Lat and Long, and label them, and sick in a waterproof map holder.

    That way, even if I'm totally lost in the fog, I can plot a position from my crappy old GPS, even if the borders have been trimmed off or folded under.

    Allan
    And the Binnacle-bats wore water-proof hats
    As they danced in the sounding sea.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Do NOAA web charts replace old ones or are printed charts more accurate for secur

    My younger sister is a commissioned officer in NOAA Corps. She makes her living in the hydrographic survey branch, making and updating those charts. The charts on line are the most recent updates available. If you were to go buy a chart it would be from a "Print on Demand" vendor as was mentioned. This gets the latest revisions out to the public without having to flush out older revs with outdated information. This summer I found changes to the nav aids on my local stretch of the Delaware on the online charts before I even noticed them from the boat. If the "restricted area" is no longer shown on the real NOAA chart on line, it is a safe bet that the area is no longer restricted.

    I often tell people to be nice to me or I'll have my sister draw a rock under their boat.

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