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Thread: Scientific knowledge

  1. #5776
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Go for what ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  2. #5777
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Dear Chippie,

    I like your recognition of "Pubs" - because, after all, outside of their field of expertise, experts are laymen like the rest ofg us - so any bit of scientific knowledge has to be ultimately rendered in a form that can be understood in layman's terms* - hence an expression i like - "Does it pass the Pub test?"

    *easier said than done sometimes - Quantum Physics is said to be only understood by advanced mathematicians - or small children!

    - but Geology i like, cos most of up have played mudpuddles and shoveled dirt and hefted rocks and watched storm waves on the seashore, and flood torrents etc etc

    so, Boulders - What i have irreverently called "Mr. Tubby's Boulders" more properly Mr Tas Walker , a competent Geologist giving scale to a sedimentary conglomerate , poorly sorted (many sizes of particle from silt to sand, rocks , and boulders - in this case , human sized boulders)



    from: https://creation.com/kata-tjuta-an-astonishing-story

    (now, dont be shy - evidence is evidence - )

    I understand (and seems plausible to me) that this is part of a water-laid layer that can be traced for tens of kilometers in areal extent ie 60 x 100 mls - not a lineal river gravel bed (via borehole analysis)

    it was spread largely horizontally (minimal slope / gravity mecnanism)

    further, it has been determinded that it was swept from the south (and not so far cos rocks are still broken / angular)

    scaling up via (standard?) fluvial experiments requires a "Turbidity Current" of a magnitude that has never been observed. (for some formations the calculations point to the sheet flow T.C. hundreds of feet deep moving at 60 to 100 mph)

    now, Chippie (would you prefer a different moniker?) - is this the sort of thing you were looking for?

    cheers,

    frank
    Wrong, I don't understand Algebra but that doesn't make it wrong. I don't know a huge amount about electricity but we know it exists and we know it works but try explaining it to some bloke in a pub and you will most likely get a thousand yard stare. Most people can understand the basics of science but most outside the field wouldn't. To say if a bloke in a pub can't understand some aspect of science therefore it's not true is just bloody inane.
    As for you boulder field well here's a possibility...maybe the boulders are the result of an eroded sedimentary layer that was then overlaid by another layer of fine particles which have since eroded out.
    Last edited by WX; 02-09-2019 at 04:12 AM.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  3. #5778
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Res ipso mugilah, No sense. no appreciation and no feeling as we say. Now f'orff to your missin as we say or would you prefer it a variety of languages. You are ne plus ultima gunnabirribrin passing as an quasi intellect.Tu toi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Actually, Purri, i diid - but cant you see that it might come down to which direction you spin the explanation?

    and that there are alternate explanations, by competent authorities in the relevant fields, that might give a better explanation of the observed evidence?
    Xanthorrea

  4. #5779
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Wrong, I don't understand Algebra but that doesn't make it wrong. I don't know a huge amount about electricity but we know it exists and we know it works but try explaining it to some bloke in a pub and you will most likely get a thousand yard stare. Most people can understand the basics of science but most outside the field wouldn't. To say if a bloke in a pub can't understand some aspect of science therefore it's not true is just bloody inane.
    As for you boulder field well here's a possibility...maybe the boulders are the result of an eroded sedimentary layer that was then overlaid by another layer of fine particles which have since eroded out.
    When Frank first bought up the photo of Mr Tubby and failed to understand the effects of lots of flash floods over hundreds of years we posted pictures of the boulders bought down by flash floods. But that went wayyyy over Franks head because it disagreed with his prejudice.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #5780
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    Jeez, Capt. Tubby is back. Where exactly in the world is he sitting? Doesn’t look like the GAB to me, so I wonder. The conglomerate also looks to be tectonically altered. The unit is dipping, the clasts flattened. This alteration all involves plates moving and enormous amounts of Time.
    "Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. " - Thoreau

  6. #5781
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
    Jeez, Capt. Tubby is back. Where exactly in the world is he sitting? Doesn’t look like the GAB to me, so I wonder. The conglomerate also looks to be tectonically altered. The unit is dipping, the clasts flattened. This alteration all involves plates moving and enormous amounts of Time.
    I believe that it is here or about:
    The region surrounding Kata Tjuṯa / Mount Olga lies in the Amadeus Basin, an intracratonic basin formed during the Adelaidian, roughly 850-800 million years ago.[5] During the Petermann Orogeny, approximately 550 million years ago, an event known as the Woodroffe Thrust lifted granulite facies rocks northward over low-grade metamorphic rocks. The eventual erosion of the formation resulted in a molasse facies, or deposition in front of rising mountains, in this case the Petermann Orogeny, to create the deposit known as the Mount Currie Conglomerate. The Mount Currie Conglomerate is made predominately of basalt, porphyry, granite, gneiss and volcanic rock fragments with a matrix composed of angular quartz, microcline and orthoclase among other minerals.
    Both Uluru / Ayers Rock and the Kata Tjuṯa / Mount Olga are made of sediment originating in this Mount Currie Conglomerate and both have a chemical composition similar to granite. Scientists using Rb/Sr dating techniques to accurately date the rock have given it an age of 600 million years, matching the date of the Woodroffe Thrust event. The actual fresh rock that makes up the Kata Tjuṯa / Mount Olga and Uluru / Ayers Rock is medium to dark gray with green or pink hues in some laminae. The bright orange-red hue, for which the structures are noted, is due to a patina over finely divided feldspar coated in iron oxide.[6]
    from Wikki
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  7. #5782
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    . The sediment layers are folded, faulted, tilted and then eroded.
    The answer is C. This takes enormous amounts of Time.

    Thanks, Nick. I had forgotten we’ve had this same discussion multiple times.
    "Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. " - Thoreau

  8. #5783
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Dear Sir,

    I diligently check through all links provided here,no matter from whom, to see if there is anything that is relevant to the point in discussion. Kindly do me the honour of respecting that by your also checking my links.

    Yes indeed, he is not sitting on the Great Artesian Basin formation, but at the base of the Olgas (or Kata Tutja).

    From my link: https://creation.com/kata-tjuta-an-astonishing-story

    "I’m sitting by an outcrop pointing to an oblong rock lying almost flat. These boulders indicate the way the water was flowing when they were so rapidly deposited.
    "All the tourists I met expressed amazement at these rocks. During my visit I spoke to many people and often asked this question: ‘How do you think these rocks were deposited? Was it by a little bit of water over a long time, or a huge flow of water over a short time?’ Everyone I asked would chuckle and say, ‘A lot of water, of course!’"

    I do not understand your second paragraph. Are you assuming that this is other than a sedimentary formation? - ie that the effects of temperature have flattened The Rocks or something? In any case I would be interested in exactly why you say that "enormous amounts of time" have been involved?

    Also, yes, the unit is dipping - but i dont know what you mean by "clasts flattened"? Those oblong blocks were ripped up by a catastrophic water flow and naturally deposited flat in the jumble of other poorly sorted sediments, No?

    From: https://creation.com/uluru-and-kata-...y-to-the-flood
    Figure 3. Cross-section through Kata Tjuta showing the slightly tilted layers of Mount Currie Conglomerate.

    and:
    Figure 4. The likely geological history or sequence of events leading to the formation of Kata Tjuta and Uluru (irrespective of any evolutionary assumptions).
    A. The ‘alluvial fans’ of Mount Currie Conglomerate (left—red) and Uluru Arkose (right—yellow) deposited on a basement of folded and eroded earlier sediments (orange) and granites (grey-green).
    B. The Mount Currie Conglomerate and Uluru Arkose are buried by other sediments (blue).
    C. The sediment layers are folded, faulted, tilted and then eroded.
    D. Further erosion lowers the ground surface still more and carves out Kata Tjuta and Uluru as they are today.

    thank you,

    Frank

    btw , in fairness to Dr. Tasman Bruce Walker B Sc and B Eng (both 1st Class Hons) PhD Mec Eng i append his bio: https://creation.com/dr-tasman-bruce-walker
    So what process produced the alluvial fans of Mt Currie conglomerate? They seem to involve rather a lot of material that was previously solidly attached to Mt Currie, and predate the "flood" in the "likely geological sequence" depicted above

    Eta Oh, maybe that's not the flood, just the sea in the more "conventional" explanation. In which case, I'm all good with the alluvial fans.

    Pete
    Last edited by epoxyboy; 02-09-2019 at 03:29 PM.
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  9. #5784
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Dr Tasman Bruce Walker

    Creationist Mechanical Engineer and Geologist (CMI–Australia)

    Biography

    Tas Walker has a Bachelor of Engineering with first class honours and a doctorate in mechanical engineering. He has been involved in the planning, design and operation of power stations for over 20 years with the electricity industry in Queensland, Australia. He has visited many coal mines in Queensland, for geological assessments of new fuel supplies for power stations. Tas also helped organise conferences including one of the Simulation Society of Australia One of his contributions has been to develop models for various aspects of the power industry such as the coordinated operation of the system and construction of power stations.
    In 1994, Dr Walker returned to university study, and completed a Bachelor of Science majoring in Earth Science, followed by First Class Honours in 1998.
    So he is an electrical engineer who ought to know better.
    By the by, that should be BSc achieving first class honours You follow a BSc by studying for an MSc.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  10. #5785
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    ^ My daughter did the same thing with her BSc, but without the four year break before doing honours. She could then have done masters, or gone straight into doing a PhD.

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  11. #5786
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    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    ^ My daughter did the same thing with her BSc, but without the four year break before doing honours. She could then have done masters, or gone straight into doing a PhD.

    Pete
    Different system to the UK then. A Bachelors degree in the UK is graded from the drinkers degree a "Desmond" 2.2 up through a second, a 2:1 with Honours through first and first with Honours. You can then go straight into a Masters, but there is no intermediate step.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #5787
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post

    now, Chippie (would you prefer a different moniker?) - is this the sort of thing you were looking for?
    Sorry. You just keep repeating the same nonsense. Posting the same scuzzy photo and spurious stratigraphic diagrams from crap websites.

    I actually spent time on this thead trying to explain the physics of deposition and how water sorting works, as opposed to debris flows.

    Evidently, you didn't get any of it.

    Turbidity currents indeed.

    Go lick a toad.
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  13. #5788
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Frank
    That's nonsence. If you had spent the same amount of time reading up on the subject as you have spent writing in this thread you would have found those facts and cross references that you are asking for.
    Those patchworks are evident to your own eyes if you go walking in nature with an open mind.

    Sceintific dating will never be foolproof nor absolutely certain but at this point we have already reached far enough to do it largely correct. There are occasional errors while the broader picture is rather clear doe to the great number of cross-references between different areas and geological formations.
    This is enough to disprove creationism once and for all.
    Last edited by heimlaga; 02-10-2019 at 05:52 AM. Reason: spelling
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  14. #5789
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    ^ res ipso ma no cervellho.
    Last edited by purri; 02-10-2019 at 03:09 AM.
    Xanthorrea

  15. #5790
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    ^ res ipso (in Latine) ma PER VOI no cervellho per scrivare criticco>
    Xanthorrea

  16. #5791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    - will get on to it, Chippie - but first in deference to Rob and Keith and others who have pressed me on my attitude to po...... errr Homosexuals.

    A little anecdote first
    Full of the joys of spring and Young Wedded Bliss, I was mowing the front lawn when a little guy came by and we struck up a conversation - as you do....
    However, I became aware that he was sexually propositioning me. I indicated my wife observing from the veranda railing and intimated that I was perfectly satisfied with my lot, thank you - but he still didn't desist!!!

    What a come down !! - I should have decked the slimy little runt - rather than passing him on nicely with bad Grace.

    OTOH I am acquainted with a couple of couples, homosexuals, who have been together in a single household 4 decades - and they are as acceptable folks as you would find anywhere - no probs....

    so what would I do about them you wanna kno?

    Well I think that they should be dealt with much as with murderers and t h e i v e s ,and adulterers and wife beaters and those who snitched a pencil from Woolies when they were a kid, and bearers of false witness , and god haters (tho i think i would let god, if he/she/it exists, deal with them) and red light runners (d a m h i k and geez - I was only 1.1 seconds into the red and not last in the Stream of traffic strung across the intersection) and bigamists and bigots and bigot-callers, and all the rest of humanity - have I included you and me yet ?

    Who's going to chuck the first rock (goolie, gibber)?

    And while we are on sexual proclivities and the law - what about a Pedo - a dirty rotten "Spider" one day - but the next day its, "Onya, mate! Good score!" - all because his victim had passed a significant (but arbitrary) birthday .....
    Fortunately you just plac yourself long side other religious bigots like ISIS.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  17. #5792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    U wouldnt know mate - you've no idea - lemming!
    Oh I think he has a pretty good idea.
    After all you are the one equating gays with pedophiles etc.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  18. #5793
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    Frank has finally lost it, nothing but insults now. How Rude.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  19. #5794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Longino View Post
    ..."I'm also not convinced that evolution is anything more than a hypothesis with very little evidence supporting it..."

    Gobbledygook!

    Evolution is reality based on tons of evidence. Your ignorance of that fact indicates that you should simply keep your ignorance to yourself rather than trying to spread it around here.
    The second post on this thread fits Frank as well as Aquinian.

  20. #5795
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Fortunately you just plac yourself long side other religious bigots like ISIS.
    He has gone stark raving mad.

  21. #5796
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Or, as someone once said

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyahoga Chuck View Post
    . Within this catagory it would be understood the thread initiator is under no obligation to know the least little bit about what he/she is posting.
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  22. #5797
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Frank!
    Banned


    Join Date May 2012 Posts1,400



    But his light is still on.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  23. #5798
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    Shall we use this thread for Scientific Knowledge rather than Ignorance?
    We know from a long time back that, although Neanderthals had large brains that may have even exceeded our own in size, their skulls were a different shape from ours. A key element of that difference was that our skulls were indeed more globular.
    The suggestion in this recent paper is that skull shape may represent rearrangements in the brain that may reflect differences in the way we think and act. Time will tell if such differences between Neanderthals and ourselves were indeed real and the current paper is just the tip of the iceberg in this exciting and rapidly developing field.
    The important question of course, and one which genetics is unlikely to resolve, is to what degree these differences between Neanderthals and ourselves actually had an effect and impact on the ground. In recent years, we have seen how differences in anatomy seem not to have mattered.
    These physical differences may have been part of a wider phenotypic diversity within the human population, which included the Neanderthals, and may simply reflect contextual differences in ecology. Anatomy could have constrained some behaviours. For example, the bulky Neanderthals may not have been as suited as our long-distance running ancestors to chasing herds across the mammoth steppe.
    Element of surprise

    On the other hand, they were probably better than them at ambush hunting large animals at close quarters from cover. In the Pleistocene world of rapidly changing ecological scenarios luck had everything to do with success or failure. It was all about being in the right place at the right time, something that natural selection - with its restriction of acting in the present on templates from the past - could not respond to fast enough.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46988399

    A recent TV documentary filmed this
    Creating a computer-generated Neanderthal

    By Katie Pavid
    First published 11 May 2018

    Hollywood star Andy Serkis worked with Museum experts to create an animated Neanderthal.
    Serkis is known for being a master of motion capture, famous for playing Gollum in The Lord of the Rings trilogy and Caesar in the recent Planet of the Apes films.
    His latest work is more scientifically accurate, however: he is now part of a team behind the animated avatar of a Neanderthal man for a new BBC Two series called Neanderthals: Meet your Ancestors.
    Prof Chris Stringer, a Museum expert on human evolution, was a science consultant on the series. He collaborated with Serkis and other leading scientists from around the world to recreate the Neanderthal character.
    < snip >
    We also now know that this species had the ability to vocalise. They had the anatomy that makes speech possible, and they also had the same two mutations that modern humans have in the gene known as FoxP2, which governs the ability to use language.
    Computer modelling of the Neanderthal vocal track features in the BBC programme, which allows us to hear what a Neanderthal may have sounded like 40,000 years after they became extinct.
    Which concluded that Neanderthal hunted up close and personal in dense forest, using stabbing spears rather than throwing spears. http://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2...anderthal.html
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    But his light is still on.
    He can still be logged in and look at the WBF, but can't post or send messages. I think that's how it works.

    I'd like to think he spewed a foul blast of curses in response to my telling him to lick a toad, but I suspect it was his anti-gay rant that did him in.

    I ddn't flag him, but I do thank whoever did the trick.
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    It was his anti gay rant wot done it.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  26. #5801
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    As I have already said, silly bu**er…………….

  27. #5802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Shall we use this thread for Scientific Knowledge rather than Ignorance?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46988399

    A recent TV documentary filmed this Which concluded that Neanderthal hunted up close and personal in dense forest, using stabbing spears rather than throwing spears. http://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2...anderthal.html
    Recent research shows the spears were good for throwing.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...far-180971357/

  28. #5803
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Recent research shows the spears were good for throwing.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...far-180971357/
    Yes I do remember that research. Using people used to throwing spears for comparison with people used to throwing spears. What a novel idea?
    However, the arguments used by the researchers associated with the Natural History Museum also used the physiognomy of the Neanderthal as recorded in their bones and evidence of injuries suffered when close up and personal with big prey animals. Their spears may well have been suited to throwing, but the programme also postulated hunts in woodland where a clear throw unimpeded by trees was rare and close up stabbing was more likely based on the skeletal evidence. Of course, their range will have extended over several different habitats, including open steppe and tundra so both methods may have been in use. But they were sprint hunters like cheetahs, not persistent pursuers with lots of stamina like long-legged slimmer Homo Sapiens.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I like the theory that Neanderthal were furry.
    Where on earth did you hear that one?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  31. #5806
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Stick a fork in him. He is done.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Tribalism is family and extended family.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  32. #5807
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    Many decades ago they were depicted as such. Times change
    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Where on earth did you hear that one?
    Xanthorrea

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    Frank lost dozens or maybe hundreds of posts with his bannishment, irreplaceable scientific knowledge. How will we survive the loss? hehe

  34. #5809
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I like the theory that Neanderthal were furry.
    I've met a few H sapiens that fit that description.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  35. #5810
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Where on earth did you hear that one?
    Can't recall where I first read it, but Wiki has a cite:

    Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending, in the book The 10,000 Year Explosion, investigated whether it is accurate to depict Neanderthals as having hair patterns similar to anatomically modern humans. They concluded that:[56]
    We don't yet know for sure, but it seems likely that, as part of their adaptation to cold, Neanderthals were furry. Chimpanzees have ridges on their finger bones that stem from the way that they clutch their mothers' fur as infants. Modern humans don't have these ridges, but Neanderthals do.
    — Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending, The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilizations Accelerated Human Evolution

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