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Thread: Scientific knowledge

  1. #4621
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Hi Chip,
    So, the photo shows part of a layer of the Armadeus formation.
    You will readily find the extent and depth of this particular insisted (?) conglomerate layer - but I understand it to be a relatively thin sheet spread uniformly over an area of tens of miles in length and breadth. Furthermore it was laid down, not on a slope, but essentially horizontally.
    I further understand that no such formations are happening now? Is that so?


    You refer to "lots of water for a short time" and I infer that e water had to be traveling fast

  2. #4622
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Boulders you say?
    So - is there a non biblical , slow and gradual, geological mechanism that can explain those "floating" boulders randomly empowers through all the thickness of that sandy? Sediment?

    Could anything like that happen currently?

  3. #4623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    So, the photo shows part of a layer of the Armadeus formation.
    This
    The older sediments in the Amadeus Basin were crumpled and buckled about 550 million years ago, and mountain ranges were uplifted in an event the geologists call the Petermann Ranges Orogeny. At this time there were no trees or grasses covering the landscape. Bacteria and algae were the only life forms and they helped break down the jagged mountain ranges.
    These bare mountains eroded easily. Huge amounts of sediment washed away when it rained and formed alluvial fans adjacent to the ranges. It is the remains of at least two of these alluvial fans that are seen today as Uluru and Kata Tjuta.
    By about 500 million years ago a shallow sea again covered the region. The alluvial fans of arkose and conglomerate were at least 2.5km thick and were gradually covered by sand and mud and the remains of sea creatures.
    The overlying sediment deposits compressed and cemented the Uluru arkosic sand into arkose and the coarse gravels of Kata Tjuta into conglomerate.
    The sea receded between 400 and 300 million years ago and the rocks were folded and fractured. This second major folding is called the Alice Springs Orogeny. It raised the region above sea level. The horizontal layers of the Uluru arkose were folded and turned nearly 90 degrees to their present position. The Kata Tjuta conglomerates were tilted only about 15 to 20 degrees from the horizontal. The sand rocks at the surface eroded rapidly. This erosion still continues now at a slower rate.
    http://archive.li/RQLDc#selection-515.0-585.173
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  4. #4624
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    So - is there a non biblical , slow and gradual, geological mechanism that can explain those "floating" boulders randomly empowers through all the thickness of that sandy? Sediment?

    Could anything like that happen currently?
    You need an ice age
    These strange so-called earth pyramids were shaped by erosion. They remind a bit of hoodos in the SW of the U.S., but their origin is a bit different. Normally the pillars consist of deposited clay with a boulder on top. They “rise” in moraine clay soil left behind by the glaciers of the last Ice Age. The soil is prone for erosion during heavy pour – though it’s hard like stone when dry. Boulders within the glacial soil are like a shield to the soil below them. The surrounding material is swept away by rain but the stone-protected parts stay more or less dry and pillars start to “rise” from the ground. Once the earth pyramid is too fragile to carry the boulder even longer, the balance is lost and the stone tumbles down. Without this protection the rest of the earth pillar vanishes quite fast with the next rainfalls.
    https://twistedsifter.com/2017/10/th...-schoenberger/
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  5. #4625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Hi Chip,
    So, the photo shows part of a layer of the Armadeus formation.
    You will readily find the extent and depth of this particular insisted (?) conglomerate layer - but I understand it to be a relatively thin sheet spread uniformly over an area of tens of miles in length and breadth. Furthermore it was laid down, not on a slope, but essentially horizontally.
    I further understand that no such formations are happening now? Is that so?

    You refer to "lots of water for a short time" and I infer that e water had to be traveling fast
    If you know all about it, why ask me, you silly git? Given genuine knowledge, you might account for it using natural processes (not divine tantrums).

    I grew up in the Great Basin in the US, where flashfloods caused by mountain thunderstorms transport large boulders, like those in the wash below.



    Flashfloods produce extremely viscous (thick) flows which exert more power than plain water. Poorly-sorted alluvium being extremely porous, and the rainfall intense but brief, the floodwater soaks in rapidly, never reaching a stream with perennial flows to transport the eroded material, which stacks up. Over eons, they build alluvial fans, which merge into bajadas, basically pediments of rocky rubble covering the feet of the mountains.



    Conglomerates can also be laid down by volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts, or similar catastrophic incidents, in which a mountain snowpack is rapidly melted producing heavy debris flows, also viscous, able to transport large particles in an unsorted mass. There's one within walking distance of my house. Such floods also take place after large fires, such as recently occurred in southern California.

    Oh, by the way, these processes take more than six thousand years to create landforms.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! óCole Porter

  6. #4626
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    [QUOTE=Chip-skiff;5649855

    "If you know all about it, why ask me, you silly git?
    - you can leave that sort of language out of it , thankyou. i understand that it is a toxic environment down here in the Bilge - and there are some that i have just learnt to ignore - but, please, while we have common ground and genuine expertise, let us try to be scientific and seek to [I]​increase [/I] genuine knowledge and insight. Thankyou.

    "Given genuine knowledge, you might account for it using natural processes (not divine tantrums).
    - yes, maybe - or perhaps the reverse?
    - but stop counting your money - and just Deal!
    - oh, and if it does happen to turn out to be the (naturalistic) result of a "divine tantrum" , and if it happens again (it is promised!)
    would you want to be in your shoes???

    "I grew up in the Great Basin in the US, where flashfloods caused by mountain thunderstorms transport large boulders, like those in the wash below.



    "Flashfloods produce extremely viscous (thick) flows which exert more power than plain water. Poorly-sorted alluvium being extremely porous, and the rainfall intense but brief, the floodwater soaks in rapidly, never reaching a stream with perennial flows to transport the eroded material, which stacks up. Over eons, they build alluvial fans, which merge into bajadas, basically pediments of rocky rubble covering the feet of the mountains.

    - but is not the Amadeus formation crucially different to this model - such that a different scenario is required?



    "Conglomerates can also be laid down by volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts, or similar catastrophic incidents, in which a mountain snowpack is rapidly melted producing heavy debris flows, also viscous, able to transport large particles in an unsorted mass. There's one within walking distance of my house. Such floods also take place after large fires, such as recently occurred in southern California.
    - but are we nowhere near the scale of the Great Sedimentary Formations - which , for one thing, have no high ground nearby - and are laid out across essentially level ground? I am thinking of the GAB.


    "Oh, by the way, these processes take more than six thousand years to create landforms.
    - so, apart from radiometric dating, what else would lead you to that conclusion?
    - and are there not plenty of indications that it likely happened millions of times faster?

    respectfully,

    frank

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    "Oh, by the way, these processes take more than six thousand years to create landforms.
    - so, apart from radiometric dating, what else would lead you to that conclusion?
    Simple observation. I've lived on the same river for twenty years and can see deposition taking place. I've studied glaciers, rivers, and water (and the consequent landforms) most of my life. I also analyse collections of hydrologic data, especially the frequency and magnitude of floods. Actually observing and studying (i.e. paying attention) gives one a sense of the rate at which processes take place, which is supported by the available data. [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    - and are there not plenty of indications that it likely happened millions of times faster?
    No. Sudden, catastrophic events, such as the Mt. Saint Helens eruption, are comparatively rare and leave a very different geomorphic signature than the gradual erosion, transport, and deposition which predominates.

    Please explain the mechanism that would lead to a widespread deposit of cobbles and boulders without the gravitational energy lent by a slope or a current.

    Your god has rocks in his head, and he sneezed?
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  8. #4628
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Frank the GAB formation is well documented and you have been shown a number of websites that explain it.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  9. #4629
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    This is an image of fast.
    1B36284F-432A-4DA7-9D0B-70BDC1A945B6.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    This is an image of fast.
    1B36284F-432A-4DA7-9D0B-70BDC1A945B6.jpg
    Fast??? = Centuries???

    This:




    (in the words of Crocodile Dundee)

    is Fast! = Months!!!

    or less....

  11. #4631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post

    - but are we nowhere near the scale of the Great Sedimentary Formations - which , for one thing, have no high ground nearby - and are laid out across essentially level ground? I am thinking of the GAB.


    "Oh, by the way, these processes take more than six thousand years to create landforms.
    - so, apart from radiometric dating, what else would lead you to that conclusion?
    - and are there not plenty of indications that it likely happened millions of times faster?

    respectfully,

    frank
    The mountains that surrounded the GAB were eroded away over millions of years and the erosion products were carried down slope and filled the GAB with all of that lovely water bearing porous rock. Simples! IT JUST TAKES ENOUGH TIME.

    So what mechanism that obeys the Laws of Physics would do that millions of years faster? Money where mouth is time Frank!
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  12. #4632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Simple observation. I've lived on the same river for twenty years and can see deposition taking place. I've studied glaciers, rivers, and water (and the consequent landforms) most of my life. I also analyse collections of hydrologic data, especially the frequency and magnitude of floods. Actually observing and studying (i.e. paying attention) gives one a sense of the rate at which processes take place, which is supported by the available data.


    No. Sudden, catastrophic events, such as the Mt. Saint Helens eruption, are comparatively rare and leave a very different geomorphic signature than the gradual erosion, transport, and deposition which predominates.

    Please explain the mechanism that would lead to a widespread deposit of cobbles and boulders without the gravitational energy lent by a slope or a current.

    Your god has rocks in his head, and he sneezed?[/QUOTE]

    "Geomorphic Signature"

    - i like it!

    Your aluvian fan shows braided stream flow compared to the uniform nature of Sheet Flow.

    It is also built up of episodic deposits - hundreds (thousands?) of them - and i bet you could dissect the formation and see how they each lie unconformably one upon the other.


    Now, In this case:

    https://creation.com/ayers-rock

    https://creation.com/uluru-and-kata-...y-to-the-flood

    https://creation.com/kata-tjuta-an-astonishing-story

    etc.

    - we see the emplacement of Kilometers of layered sediment in a single consecutive event because of the G.S. of each layer lying conform-ably upon the other under conditions of Sheet Flow.

    - the whole was then plastically (whilst they must still have been in the "wet cement" stage - ie not even the 'oldest' layers consolidated to the brittle stage) folded by tectonic forces such that the layers in the part of interest (containing Ayers Rock) were pushed to the vertical,

    - then a huge amount (the top half of the folds....) was removed to .... somewhere ......

    - leaving the stub that we call nowadays - Uluru!

    - oh, and that bit of Arkose cannot have been sitting around in the weather for millions of years - 'cos Arkose is too vulnerable to weathering.



    widespread deposit of cobbles and boulders without the gravitational energy lent by a slope

    - a Tsunami of Biblical Proportions? (....."and the oceans washed to and fro across the land".....)

    {the equivalent of a biblical sneeze?}

    - or as apparently happened to Uranus - which tipped it over...

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ilt-obliquity/

    - and stirred up its magnetic field (Which only Humphreys believes is there - and the dynamo theory says isnt! - but that is another story)

    Cheers!

    frank

  13. #4633
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    - a Tsunami of Biblical Proportions? (....."and the oceans washed to and fro across the land".....)

    {the equivalent of a biblical sneeze?}

    - or as apparently happened to Uranus - which tipped it over...

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ilt-obliquity/

    - and stirred up its magnetic field (Which only Humphreys believes is there - and the dynamo theory says isnt! - but that is another story)

    Cheers!

    frank
    So you still cannot comprehend that the Laws of Physics (that you should have learned and understood at school) make such an event impossible.

    Uranus tilted by double impact? Something like that is posited for the formation of the moon. An impactor so big that the earth melted and splashed into space. Now how did Noah and his gopherwood ark survive a molten earth with the flood boiled off as steam?

    Did Humphereys predict this about Uranus magnetic field?
    https://www.space.com/37419-uranus-magnetic-field.html
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    He didn't. Nor does his 'explanation' cover the source of that field - not in the core, but in a liquid shell outwith it.

    Andy
    "We were schooner-rigged and rakish, with a long and lissome hull ..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Oh! Good-O, Chip,

    i wonder if you would take a look at this photo:



    - and give us your educated guess as to the speed and depth of water required to lay it (the boulder layer formation - not the photo!) down? (person for scale)
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Hi Chip,
    So, the photo shows part of a layer of the Armadeus formation.
    You will readily find the extent and depth of this particular insisted (?) conglomerate layer - but I understand it to be a relatively thin sheet spread uniformly over an area of tens of miles in length and breadth. Furthermore it was laid down, not on a slope, but essentially horizontally.
    I further understand that no such formations are happening now? Is that so?

    You refer to "lots of water for a short time" and I infer that e water had to be traveling fast
    Here's a take on why I get so annoyed with what you are doing. You post a poor-quality photo of a pudgy chap backed by lumpy reddish stuff who knows where, and ask for an educated guess?

    The minimum in such instances is to find a better photo, identify the location, and specify what you think it shows. You also might give some source for the notion that the reddish lumps were deposited horizontally(?) and the mechanics of that.

    Later, in your weird little 'gotcha' post, you misspell the name of the formation (Amadeus means something like Loves God) and once again fail to provide even a basic suite of information on where it is, the geologic context, etc.

    It's not proof. It's not even an argument.
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  16. #4636
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    ^ I feel your pain.
    I cannot decide whether Frank is an idiot, suffering from senile decay or some other form of brain dysfunction, or just delusional. He also seems to believe that we can read his mind.

    Either way, he does not live by the standards that he espouses, and seems to have forgotten the basic school learning that he must have achieved if he did attend further education at college or university.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #4637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Fast??? = Centuries???

    This:




    (in the words of Crocodile Dundee)

    is Fast! = Months!!!

    or less....
    Geological structures like Uluru do not happen in months or even centuries. It takes hundreds of millions of years to lay down the sediment then tilt it through 90 or so degrees and the erode it down.
    I fail to understand why you persist with this need for some simplistic and physically impossible view of how the world formed. We are up to 133 pages and you have learnt nothing.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    I fail to understand why you persist with this need for some simplistic and physically impossible view of how the world formed.
    Oh, it's clear enough; because a literal reading of his Holy Book requires it, and that particular book is the Infallible Eternal Word of God.

    Frank, with all respect, I simply don't believe you came to believe in biblical literalism and a 6000-year-old earth through dispassionate objective examination of the physical evidence.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    A few thoughts on analysing conglomerates or poorly-sorted coarse deposits: given a decent exposure, one might do sampling on a grid to measure the relative grain sizes and their proportions. That would support calculations on the magnitude and duration of the floods. Looking at the axis orientation of the particles would add information on the flow direction.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! óCole Porter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    A few thoughts on analysing conglomerates or poorly-sorted coarse deposits: given a decent exposure, one might do sampling on a grid to measure the relative grain sizes and their proportions. That would support calculations on the magnitude and duration of the floods. Looking at the axis orientation of the particles would add information on the flow direction.
    Frank is not interested in your facts. If it is not in Creation.com it is not factual. Even though Frank wants an open minded discussion of ALL of the science, if it is not on Creation.com it is of no relevance.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Here's a take on why I get so annoyed with what you are doing. You post a poor-quality photo of a pudgy chap backed by lumpy reddish stuff who knows where, and ask for an educated guess?

    The minimum in such instances is to find a better photo, identify the location, and specify what you think it shows. You also might give some source for the notion that the reddish lumps were deposited horizontally(?) and the mechanics of that.

    Later, in your weird little 'gotcha' post, you misspell the name of the formation (Amadeus means something like Loves God) and once again fail to provide even a basic suite of information on where it is, the geologic context, etc.

    It's not proof. It's not even an argument.
    Aw gee, Chip - i was only looking for a kinda binary answer - in this case biblical / non-biblical - there are some here hanging on that question. -

    "Mr. Pudgy" is Tas Walker Phd, a world class Geologist with a career in the mainstream, and an active YEC'er. He has his hand on a big boulder nearly his size , and there are lots of others of all sizes down to sand and clay (i think) - any way part of the Amadeus Basin in central aust . im sure you could easily find it http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/energy/province-sedimentary-basin-geology/petroleum/onshore-australia/amadeus-basin .
    The exposure in the photo - Say at least 10' thick, extends in one continuous layer for tens of miles in every direction (as i understand it). - so laid down in one swath by sheet flow - you would agree?

    So, in simple terms, which is more certain - that it was laid down slowly and gradually by a fluvial process of which we do have examples in historical times (say in the last 10 to 100 thousand years OE scale , or 4.5 to 6 thou YE scale)?

    or was it laid down by a fluvial process of biblical scale? (ie of a scale that makes even the Missoula floood look trivial).

    There is a difference of the order of millions, even billions (and no middle ground?) - so the determination should be easy???

    sincerely,

    frank

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    "Mr. Pudgy" is Tas Walker Phd, a world class Geologist with a career in the mainstream, and an active YEC'er. He has his hand on a big boulder nearly his size , and there are lots of others of all sizes down to sand and clay (i think) - any way part of the Amadeus Basin in central aust . im sure you could easily find it http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/energy/province-sedimentary-basin-geology/petroleum/onshore-australia/amadeus-basin .
    The exposure in the photo - Say at least 10' thick, extends in one continuous layer for tens of miles in every direction (as i understand it). - so laid down in one swath by sheet flow - you would agree?

    So, in simple terms, which is more certain - that it was laid down slowly and gradually by a fluvial process of which we do have examples in historical times (say in the last 10 to 100 thousand years OE scale , or 4.5 to 6 thou YE scale)?

    or was it laid down by a fluvial process of biblical scale? (ie of a scale that makes even the Missoula floood look trivial).
    Dr. Pudgy should get a better photographer. He doesn't have a doctoral degree in Geology, that I can find, but a BSc and degrees in Engineering. He works for the Bible nuts. Here's a rundown on yet another bogus "scientific" blowhard:

    https://noanswersingenesis.org.au/CM...er_thesis2.htm

    I'm not going to chase down support for your nonsensical statements. Either post it yourself or bugger off.

    You keep repeating the guff about one swath, tens of miles, and sheet flow. Any support for that? Cross-sections? Data tables?

    I don't think you know what sheet flow is, if you can say it takes place without a slope.

    Gravity. Is that a clue? Or a problem?
    Last edited by Chip-skiff; 08-17-2018 at 12:04 AM.
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    About the boulders on pedestals (truly weird in a gorgeous way) working on glacier surveys, we saw boulders whose shadows slowed the melting of the ice, which formed similar, but much smaller, pedestals under them. The tallest I saw was about 2 metres.

    When we were running a GPS survey transect, a huge boulder just below the bergschrund melted off its pedestal and came sledding down the glacier (rather steep) toward us. Hard to judge the line, since it kept hitting ridges and meltwater channels, and veering, so I waited (!!!) until it got fairly close to run for my life. It barely missed the guy who'd run first, and collapsed on the ice out of breath.

    We adjourned the survey, hiked back to camp, and downed some strong drink.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! óCole Porter

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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Cracking story. I'd like to have seen these roll: the biggest rock is 40m across. The location is Tsiolkovski Crater, the Moon.



    Andy
    "We were schooner-rigged and rakish, with a long and lissome hull ..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Dr. Pudgy should get a better photographer. He doesn't have a doctoral degree in Geology, that I can find, but a BSc and degrees in Engineering. He works for the Bible nuts. Here's a rundown on yet another bogus "scientific" blowhard:

    https://noanswersingenesis.org.au/CM...er_thesis2.htm

    I'm not going to chase down support for your nonsensical statements. Either post it yourself or bugger off.

    You keep repeating the guff about one swath, tens of miles, and sheet flow. Any support for that? Cross-sections? Data tables?

    I don't think you know what sheet flow is, if you can say it takes place without a slope.

    Gravity. Is that a clue? Or a problem?
    ok, chippie , my good fellow - seems i have confronted you with an uncomfortable truth so you are not prepared to state the answer you very well know to be true - and you are further resorting to hostile aggression in referencing an anti-creationist beatup.

    have it your way, but for the audience i will spell out a succinct train of reasoning that you may have followed (consciously or unconsciously).

    (i have noted earlier that atheists, being essentially creator deniers, have no room to move on the question of Creator vs. Naturalistic.

    and further, those who do not feel the need to deny the possibility of same, can follow the science freely and openly and accept the story of the evidence )

    So if Tas is sitting by a boulder nearly his size that could only have been transported by a Biblical rush of water - and this also turns out to be typical of most geology around the planet , then the Noahic account is likely not falsified - and thus there is one more reason to take it seriously
    and note that the story of Noah is referenced in many different ways by many people throughout the scriptures - and particularly ties in with end times - so that even those who would rather it all were not true, may have to reconsider their state....

    good luck,

    frank

    (go on - stick that in yer pipe an' smoke it!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Oh, it's clear enough; because a literal reading of his Holy Book requires it, and that particular book is the Infallible Eternal Word of God.

    Frank, with all respect, I simply don't believe you came to believe in biblical literalism and a 6000-year-old earth through dispassionate objective examination of the physical evidence.
    so, Keith - what do you make of that conglomerate layer spread out over miles and miles of level plain?

    how do you shift boulders slow and gradually over millions of years?

    (consider it dispassionately, now - no imposing your personal bias on it now!)

    Cheers,

    Frank

  27. #4647
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    ok, chippie , my good fellow - seems i have confronted you with an uncomfortable truth so you are not prepared to state the answer you very well know to be true - and you are further resorting to hostile aggression in referencing an anti-creationist beatup.

    have it your way, but for the audience i will spell out a succinct train of reasoning that you may have followed (consciously or unconsciously).

    (i have noted earlier that atheists, being essentially creator deniers, have no room to move on the question of Creator vs. Naturalistic.

    and further, those who do not feel the need to deny the possibility of same, can follow the science freely and openly and accept the story of the evidence )

    So if Tas is sitting by a boulder nearly his size that could only have been transported by a Biblical rush of water - and this also turns out to be typical of most geology around the planet , then the Noahic account is likely not falsified - and thus there is one more reason to take it seriously
    and note that the story of Noah is referenced in many different ways by many people throughout the scriptures - and particularly ties in with end times - so that even those who would rather it all were not true, may have to reconsider their state....

    good luck,

    frank

    (go on - stick that in yer pipe an' smoke it!)
    Show some respect for expertise Frank
    Chip-skiff lives a lot closer to rain driven deposition of conglomerates than you do.
    https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/hea...ornia-34516015


    As it is you are making yourself look foolish.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    boulder nearly his size that could only have been transported by a Biblical rush of water

    This is typical of the sort of dishonest dross being promulgated here. Rocks that size, and way bigger, are routinely transported by perfectly ordinary rushes of water.
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    boulder nearly his size that could only have been transported by a Biblical rush of water

    This is typical of the sort of dishonest dross being promulgated here. Rocks that size, and way bigger, are routinely transported by perfectly ordinary rushes of water.
    - not just down a mountain stream - but spread out with a whole multitude of his fellows across sq miles of countryside?

    from: https://creation.com/noahs-flood-exp...ulder-deposits


    Figure 3. Well-rounded quartzite boulder about 60 cm (24 in) long with numerous percussion marks from on top of the Gravelly Mountains, southwest Montana, USA. Note the glassy texture of the quartzite boulder in the chipped part, bottom left edge.

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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    boulder nearly his size that could only have been transported by a Biblical rush of water

    This is typical of the sort of dishonest dross being promulgated here. Rocks that size, and way bigger, are routinely transported by perfectly ordinary rushes of water.
    - 100mls by 60 mls ??? in areal extent = "perfectly ordinary" ???

    - and moving at a speed that Chip wont admit

    - and of sufficient depth to carry the load of all the other stuff mixed up with those boulders

    - oh and across level ground

    (still nobody has offered a non-biblical mechanism for spreading sand in one continuous layer half way across a continent. )
    Last edited by Frank!; 08-17-2018 at 06:32 AM.

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    and on another tangent....

    how rare these days, is a life of contentment?

    contentious would more often characterize life now (at least this thread) - but , in our formative years, though struggle may have been a big factor, achievement resulted in the desired goal of

    contentment

    ?

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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    - (still nobody has offered a non-biblical mechanism for spreading sand in one continuous layer half way across a continent. )
    Calling BS on this one too, the explanation has been given but you pretend not to understand....
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Calling BS on this one too, the explanation has been given but you pretend not to understand....
    you can only call BS if you can substantiate it - otherwise you are merely a denialist or worse.

    - so , perhaps a brief extract form the reference you had in mind

    - or the ref tag (but if it is one already cited, be aware that vague, open references to "marine environment" or "streams and rivers" wont cut it - though they imply ordinary processes of a scale with which we are currently familiar - they also may be interpreted as being of a biblical scale (as the physics of sediment emplacement requires))

    So, mate, something that specifically addresses the question of how continental size formations can or cant be explained by floods of non-biblical proportions.

    {or BS yourself!}
    Last edited by Frank!; 08-17-2018 at 07:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    you can only call BS if you can substantiate it - otherwise you are merely a denialist or worse.

    - so , perhaps a brief extract form the reference you had in mind

    - or the ref tag (but if it is one already cited, be aware that vague, open references to "marine environment" or "streams and rivers" wont cut it - though they imply ordinary processes of a scale with which we are currently familiar - they also may be interpreted as being of a biblical scale (as the physics of sediment emplacement requires))

    So, mate, something that specifically addresses the question of how continental size formations can or cant be explained by floods of non-biblical proportions.

    {or BS yourself!}
    Trouble is Frank, your world wide flood in BS. BS that contravened the Laws of Physics. So provide evidence that such a flood is allowed by those pesky Laws.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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