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Thread: Scientific knowledge

  1. #2311
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Of course; what did you expect? He already knows The Truth...
    Freedom!
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  2. #2312
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Freedom!
    Oy! I don't think that's what he meant.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  3. #2313
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    at this stage I think I will pause to see if anyone is actually fair dinkum
    Why would you expect to be treated by others in a manner other than that by which you treat them? Start by being the change you want.
    "The future is already here it's just not very evenly distributed." William Gibson

  4. #2314
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Some new research on plate tectonics.
    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/10/e...ust-mapped-it/
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  5. #2315
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    i have done a bit of thinking and there is a lot that I might say - but I am going to pick up on just one question that Keith has put. (btw, Keith, you continue to get me all wrong - but I have given my testimony earlier and wont repeat here)

    sometimes I'm a slow brained bear but ive just realised that your question is not so much a personal one, but goes to the heart of the scientific principle - that of falsifiability - and, of course, applies to everyone.

    So, Keith ,"What evidence in the real world would change your mind?" (without checking I think that is essentially what you put)

    for myself (not that I am wedded to the YEC position anyway - but for the sake of the discussion....) there would be quite a number of triggers, but let me put top of the list:

    - Radiometric dating in the region beyond say 10,000 BC. if that were to be completely validated ie the various problems associated with it sorted out then I would think the young earth position collapses, with ongoing ramifications

    But perhaps that is not what you meant by "real world" because it is something that happens in the Boffins labs ......

    so how about a single log - not an arrangement of several logs unless the sequence is very clear - with say, 10,000 annual rings.

    Now, over to you Keith (and everyone) 'What in the real world would falsify your position?'

    btw, thankyou to some of you whose comments warrant a reply - but just for now I will have to defer. I would hope to get back when the opportunity offers.

    Regards,

    Frank

  6. #2316
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    i have done a bit of thinking and there is a lot that I might say - but I am going to pick up on just one question that Keith has put. (btw, Keith, you continue to get me all wrong - but I have given my testimony earlier and wont repeat here)

    sometimes I'm a slow brained bear but ive just realised that your question is not so much a personal one, but goes to the heart of the scientific principle - that of falsifiability - and, of course, applies to everyone.

    So, Keith ,"What evidence in the real world would change your mind?" (without checking I think that is essentially what you put)

    for myself (not that I am wedded to the YEC position anyway - but for the sake of the discussion....) there would be quite a number of triggers, but let me put top of the list:

    - Radiometric dating in the region beyond say 10,000 BC. if that were to be completely validated ie the various problems associated with it sorted out then I would think the young earth position collapses, with ongoing ramifications

    But perhaps that is not what you meant by "real world" because it is something that happens in the Boffins labs ......

    so how about a single log - not an arrangement of several logs unless the sequence is very clear - with say, 10,000 annual rings.

    Now, over to you Keith (and everyone) 'What in the real world would falsify your position?'

    btw, thankyou to some of you whose comments warrant a reply - but just for now I will have to defer. I would hope to get back when the opportunity offers.

    Regards,

    Frank
    Knowning full well there are not trees 10,000 years old...you don't ask much do you?
    How about you prove to us will undeniable evidence that the world is only 6,000 years old?
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  7. #2317
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    i have done a bit of thinking and there is a lot that I might say - but I am going to pick up on just one question that Keith has put. (btw, Keith, you continue to get me all wrong - but I have given my testimony earlier and wont repeat here)

    sometimes I'm a slow brained bear but ive just realised that your question is not so much a personal one, but goes to the heart of the scientific principle - that of falsifiability - and, of course, applies to everyone.

    So, Keith ,"What evidence in the real world would change your mind?" (without checking I think that is essentially what you put)

    for myself (not that I am wedded to the YEC position anyway - but for the sake of the discussion....) there would be quite a number of triggers, but let me put top of the list:

    - Radiometric dating in the region beyond say 10,000 BC. if that were to be completely validated ie the various problems associated with it sorted out then I would think the young earth position collapses, with ongoing ramifications

    But perhaps that is not what you meant by "real world" because it is something that happens in the Boffins labs ......

    so how about a single log - not an arrangement of several logs unless the sequence is very clear - with say, 10,000 annual rings.

    Now, over to you Keith (and everyone) 'What in the real world would falsify your position?'

    btw, thankyou to some of you whose comments warrant a reply - but just for now I will have to defer. I would hope to get back when the opportunity offers.

    Regards,

    Frank
    First off, radiometric testing of ancient rocks is settled science, does not require treerings to validate it as there are other valid methods to do so.
    read these: https://ncse.com/library-resource/ra...ting-does-work
    and https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/...ating_methods/

    We have posted several links to explanations of how the different techniques work, so did you read them, could you understand the science?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  8. #2318
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Has any progress been made in the matter of brainwashing ?
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  9. #2319
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Has any progress been made in the matter of brainwashing ?
    We need to open the mind before we can insert the hose. We are working on it.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  10. #2320
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    By 'real world' I mean 'observation of physical reality'. A lab is as real as a mountainside or the far side of another star, it's all the same world.

    - Radiometric dating in the region beyond say 10,000 BC. if that were to be completely validated ie the various problems associated with it sorted out then I would think the young earth position collapses, with ongoing ramifications
    It has been completely validated, beyond any reasonable doubt. There are multiple independent dating methods that all correlate and reinforce each other. None of it is even close to compatible with a young earth. If you don't accept that evidence, nothing we can say will convince you.

    I answered 'what in the real world would falsify my position' many pages back, immediately after you asked. And if you aren't a biblical literalist/fundamentalist, you are the probably the only young-earther who isn't.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  11. #2321
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    And if you aren't a biblical literalist/fundamentalist, you are the probably the only young-earther who isn't.
    This creation myth http://dept.cs.williams.edu/~lindsey.../myths_13.html is better than Franks creation myth.
    And it goes back more than 60,000 years. http://www.australia.gov.au/about-au...tural-heritage
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #2322
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    First off, radiometric testing of ancient rocks is settled science, ............?
    - maybe in your lunchbox, Nick - but you were cautioned in a post some time back (I am still working towards finding it) that tis no so

    anyway a few search clicks should disabuse you of this notion - if you have a mind to look...

    (inoffensively,)

    frank

    btw - not happy that with your positing that it is not possible to alter the angular momentum of a watermelon by whacking it with a cricket bat ......... maaaaaaaaaaaaaate, get real

  13. #2323
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    - maybe in your lunchbox, Nick - but you were cautioned in a post some time back (I am still working towards finding it) that tis no so

    anyway a few search clicks should disabuse you of this notion - if you have a mind to look...

    (inoffensively,)

    frank

    btw - not happy that with your positing that it is not possible to alter the angular momentum of a watermelon by whacking it with a cricket bat ......... maaaaaaaaaaaaaate, get real
    More rubbish.
    get a watermelon, get a cricket bat and give the melon a really good wack. Get back to us with the result.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  14. #2324
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Bananas!

    Fire departments.

    Hose couplers.

    Iced cream.

    Mylar balloon, shaped like Spider-Man.

    Peace,
    Robert

  15. #2325
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    - maybe in your lunchbox, Nick - but you were cautioned in a post some time back (I am still working towards finding it) that tis no so

    anyway a few search clicks should disabuse you of this notion - if you have a mind to look...

    (inoffensively,)

    frank

    btw - not happy that with your positing that it is not possible to alter the angular momentum of a watermelon by whacking it with a cricket bat ......... maaaaaaaaaaaaaate, get real
    You really are clueless about the conservation of momentum, the transfer of energy or any other part of science.



    Now, did you understand any of these?
    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    First off, radiometric testing of ancient rocks is settled science, does not require treerings to validate it as there are other valid methods to do so.
    read these: https://ncse.com/library-resource/ra...ting-does-work
    and https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/...ating_methods/

    We have posted several links to explanations of how the different techniques work, so did you read them, could you understand the science?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  16. #2326
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    You really are clueless about the conservation of momentum, the transfer of energy or any other part of science.



    Now, did you understand any of these?
    I look forward to the rational proving you are still wrong.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  17. #2327
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    More rubbish.
    get a watermelon, get a cricket bat and give the melon a really good wack. Get back to us with the result.
    Got to be a glancing blow to get it to spin. Remember the billiards cue rebuttal?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  18. #2328
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge


    Farthest monster black hole found


    Astronomers have discovered the most distant "supermassive" black hole known to science.
    The matter-munching sinkhole is a whopping 13 billion light-years away, so far that we see it as it was a mere 690 million years after the Big Bang.
    But at about 800 million times the mass of our Sun, it managed to grow to a surprisingly large size such a short time after the origin of the Universe.
    The find is described in the journal Nature.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  19. #2329
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Little Foot skeleton unveiled in South Africa

    One of the oldest and most complete skeletons of humankind's ancestors has been unveiled in South Africa.
    A team spent more than 20 years excavating, cleaning and putting together the skeleton of Little Foot.
    Its exact age is debated, but South African scientists say the remains are 3.67 million years old.
    This would mean Little Foot was alive about 500,000 years before Lucy, the famous skeleton of an ancient human relative found in Ethiopia.
    Both Little Foot and Lucy belong to the same genus - Australopithecus - but they are different species.
    Scientists believe this shows humankind's ancestors were spread across a far wider area of Africa than had previously thought. It also suggests there were a diverse number of species.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-42250530
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge


  21. #2331
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    67 pages...........cue the tumbleweed machine.

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  22. #2332
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    [QUOTE=Peerie Maa;5416242]You really are clueless about the conservation of momentum, the transfer of energy or any other part of science.

    #2325 posted 8:02 AM

  23. #2333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Got to be a glancing blow to get it to spin. Remember the billiards cue rebuttal?
    #2327 posted 8:16 AM

    boy! is that a quick turnaround ?

  24. #2334
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Bananas!

    Fire departments.

    Hose couplers.

    Iced cream.

    Mylar balloon, shaped like Spider-Man.

    Peace,
    Robert

    sorry, lost on me ......

  25. #2335
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    Default Re: Scientific knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    By 'real world' I mean 'observation of physical reality'. A lab is as real as a mountainside or the far side of another star, it's all the same world.

    It has been completely validated, beyond any reasonable doubt. There are multiple independent dating methods that all correlate and reinforce each other. None of it is even close to compatible with a young earth. If you don't accept that evidence, nothing we can say will convince you.

    I answered 'what in the real world would falsify my position' many pages back, immediately after you asked. And if you aren't a biblical literalist/fundamentalist, you are the probably the only young-earther who isn't.
    lab is as real :

    the Lab may be real - but what comes out of it isn't .

    the processes are unfathomable to the layman and the results cannot be checked by a layman's grasp.

    Unlike tree ring counting which is completely understandable by ordinary people.
    perhaps there being no trees >10,000 yrs old is not positive evidence for a younger age - but there being an apparent "glass wall" - an age beyond which no tree seems to attain - well that becomes provocative when many trees that seem to be well able to live longer, for some reason don't.

    It has been completely validated, beyond any reasonable doubt :

    It would seem that you have never investigated the matter, or are simply in denial - in which case If you don't accept the evidence, nothing I can say will convince you.

    I answered 'what in the real world would falsify my position'

    so you did - something to the effect "..... if Noahs flood were true there would be many evidences from many disciplines, all over the earth ...." IIRC

    and indeed isn't that just what we observe:

    "billions of dead things

    buried in rock layers

    laid down by water

    all over the earth"
    Last edited by Frank!; 12-07-2017 at 05:06 AM.

  26. #2336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    lab is as real :

    the Lab may be real - but what comes out of it isn't .

    the processes are unfathomable to the layman and the results cannot be checked by a layman's grasp.

    Unlike tree ring counting which is completely understandable by ordinary people.
    perhaps there being no trees >10,000 yrs old is not positive evidence for a younger age - but there being an apparent "glass wall" - an age beyond which no tree seems to attain - well that becomes provocative when many trees that seem to be well able to live longer, for some reason don't.

    It has been completely validated, beyond any reasonable doubt :

    It would seem that you have never investigated the matter, or are simply in denial - in which case If you don't accept the evidence, nothing I can say will convince you.

    I answered 'what in the real world would falsify my position'

    and indeed isn't that just what we observe:

    "billions of dead things

    buried in rock layers

    laid down by water

    all over the earth"
    Frank, just because you are not able to understand the science does not mean that the science is wrong. All it indicates is that you are not equipped to discuss science.

    A wee test for you:
    What is meant by the half life of a radioactive isotope?
    What is the half life of potassium40?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  27. #2337
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Has any progress been made in the matter of brainwashing ?
    I don't think so - and isn't it about time the issue was explored?

    I mean, looking at history, - N. K. with its parody on the Christian story, Hitler - Goebbels' 'Radio for the Masses' with the BBC channels filtered out, Lenin and so on ...... so common that it almost seems the rule rather than the exception that human societies develop a politically correct thought regime.

    so what makes you think we might be exempt?

    and given how pervasive the word "evolution" is in our culture - might not one be justified in having some suspicions?

  28. #2338
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    .......................................
    How about you prove to us will undeniable evidence that the world is only 6,000 years old?
    I have found creation.com to have a very effective search function with perfectly readable articles on just about every topic.

    so rather than my trotting out a few examples, why don't you put your scepticism to the test for yourself?

    there are many other sources (who knew?) but this one is one of the largest, oldest, and most respected sites of its kind on the net.

  29. #2339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    I have found creation.com to have a very effective search function with perfectly readable articles on just about every topic.

    so rather than my trotting out a few examples, why don't you put your scepticism to the test for yourself?

    there are many other sources (who knew?) but this one is one of the largest, oldest, and most respected sites of its kind on the net.
    Frank, every time you have quoted a creation website it has been debunked, either because any evidence that contradicts the authors dogma is ignored or in one case because the author was shown to dishonestly omit part of Gould's text in order to create the impression that Gould believes something that he did not.
    So, don't try to rely on your flakey websites, amass the evidence for your self and make the case your self.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  30. #2340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    I have found creation.com to have a very effective search function with perfectly readable articles on just about every topic.

    so rather than my trotting out a few examples, why don't you put your scepticism to the test for yourself?

    there are many other sources (who knew?) but this one is one of the largest, oldest, and most respected sites of its kind on the net.
    I had a look at some of the articles and I didn’t believe any of it. So you will have to do better than that. As for understandable by the layman, do you understand calculus because I don’t? Does that mean it’s not real?
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  31. #2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    I imagine you think this is clever, because I draw. It’s not.

    This is a ridiculous and slightly insulting link.

    I am a serious student of anthropology, Frank. Double major and all, eh? I have also mentioned Cuneiform here before, I’m sure. It is the written language used by Abram, the father of all the Hebrews.
    So, if, according to the Bible itself, Abram, after the name change, became the father of the Hebrews, how could they have made up the first alphabet?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_script
    Here is a link for you to not read.

    Peace,
    Robert

  32. #2342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    sorry, lost on me ......
    I thought he point was to type random words unconnected to reality or meaning.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    I thought he point was to type random words unconnected to reality or meaning.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Ah but.
    None of those words existed in the Hebrew of Abraham's time.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  34. #2344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Ah but.
    None of those words existed in the Hebrew of Abraham's time.
    Good point. The historical record points to ancient Hebrews being fans of DC comics.

    Mylar balloon, shaped like Batman, then?

    Peace,
    Robert

  35. #2345
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    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Good point. The historical record points to ancient Hebrews being fans of DC comics.

    Mylar balloon, shaped like Batman, then?

    Peace,
    Robert
    Should that not be inflated goats bladder shaped like a man in a blanket?
    C'mon, think it through.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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