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Thread: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

  1. #36
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Superb work in every detail. I'm impressed! I am curious as to how you chose shackles over the new-fangled deadeyes done up with dyneema.
    -Dave

  2. #37
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Damn, I missed you when you were in my patch... what a fine boat...

  3. #38
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Great boat, great story and great tutorial! Thanks for taking the time to share it with us.
    Alex

    "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. We do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again" Aran Islands Fisherman

  4. #39
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    your boat and your journey reminds me so much of my own, with PEQUOT (an Atkin DRAGON design) then DECATUR (Alden MALABAR II). it is so wonderful to see a dedicated couple working together to realise the dream of a boat. your photos speak volumes! i particularly enjoy the photo of the yacht behind the blue truck just emerging from out of the forest.

    all the very best to you both. I do hope either one of you has been writing, or will start writing a daily personal dairy of events of your time afloat. makes for good reading when you are older.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I am curious as to how you chose shackles over the new-fangled deadeyes done up with dyneema.
    Cost. Those fancy aluminum deadeyes cost more than a turnbuckle. I briefly entertained machining my own, but thought galv rigging screws fit the boat better. The Coligo guys also don't recommend lashings for boats over 30 ft. I'm not sure why, you can certainly make them strong enough. I'm guessing it has to do with rigging preload on modern boats.

    Here is a rigging closeup with Orca whales in the background!



    Coming right at us.



    We went south through Dodd Narrows on a favorable current (wild!) just before a 3 tug log boom went through.



    And set the sails for the first time. Mygod they are pastel blue and green. Why?!? We do have a full set of cotton sails that are crisp white and appear to have been barely used. For show I guess.



    We ambled south through the world's greatest cruising ground.



    The only real trouble was crossing the Straight of Juan de Fuca. We started before first light on a good forecast. Partway out into the straights a horrible, thick, dense, cold, crippling fog rolled in. We do not have radar, and the chart plotter was not hooked up yet. We navigated by chart and compass, on the radio with Seattle traffic the whole way, terrified to be in one of the busiest shipping lanes on earth. By the time we realized what was happening we were miles outside the safety of Cattle Pass, with the current now strongly against us if we turned back, and no guarantee we could find the narrow pass in the fog. So we pushed on, eventually without incident. Duly noted; that little wisp on the horizon is not just early morning mist that will burn off. That is the seed of a terrible fog. Turn around now and go buy radar!

    At least the sun is showing here, it was at times completely obscured.



  6. #41
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    We popped out of the wall of fog just ahead of this motor boat into a perfect beautiful day at Port Townsend. The kids were out in their prams, people were laying on the beach, and we must have looked like we'd seen ghosts.





    We rowed into town for a much needed breakfast in the shipyard.

    Now for some glamour shots of the rig. I really like how the serving stands out against the sky. It looks just like the ink on the sailplan drawing.



    If you study the forces on the rig, you will see that it is very heavily stayed against going over backwards, but very little to keep it from going over forwards. This on a downwind boat. The runners aren't even on the original plan, but I consider them critical equipment. There is no way to get any tension in the headstays otherwise, the mast just keeps bending forward. Phase II will add a bit more aft staying before going offshore. A proper masthead backstay forked around the mizzen for starters, and likely some masthead shrouds over aft swept spreaders for the mizzen. Raising the spring stay to the mizzen top will complete the arrangement and allow for a mizzen staysail to be flown.



    Overall I'm convinced this is a grand old ship in remarkably good condition.

    That just about wraps up the standing rigging, except for finishing off the serving on the lower ends. I need to do major work on the running rigging, as the new deck deleted all of the existing features for that. Its a blank slate to start from.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    your boat and your journey reminds me so much of my own, with PEQUOT (an Atkin DRAGON design) then DECATUR (Alden MALABAR II). it is so wonderful to see a dedicated couple working together to realise the dream of a boat. your photos speak volumes! i particularly enjoy the photo of the yacht behind the blue truck just emerging from out of the forest.

    all the very best to you both. I do hope either one of you has been writing, or will start writing a daily personal dairy of events of your time afloat. makes for good reading when you are older.
    Thanks Bernadette, I believe it is photos of your dragon that is on the cover of Atkin's Of Yachts and Men that sits on my table right now!

  8. #43
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    Thanks Bernadette, I believe it is photos of your dragon that is on the cover of Atkin's Of Yachts and Men that sits on my table right now!
    thats correct.

    i like your galvanised turnbuckles. very shippy and in keeping with the age of the boat.
    i had deadeyes on DECATUR and tensioning was done every so often as needed. i had no problems with them as such. however with rigging screws the rig can be set up so much easier and with less ongoing bother!

    do you know of an Atkin Ingrid named PILAR? (i met her and crew mid Queensland coast many years back. they gave me a copy of the "Arts of the Sailor" by Hervey Garret Smith).

  9. #44
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    I know of an Ingrid in Port Townsend named Pelin, but no Pilar. Pelin has a nearly identical served rig to the one I just built.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Wow

    I had been thinking you were due a bit of chastisement for lack of progress on your Maid....never mind
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  11. #46
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by mohsart View Post
    The same as Crane Splice? Much easier than Liverpool Splice to get to look good IMHO

    /Mats
    Not sure Mats, will have to look that one up. An Admiralty splice does not slip, i would hope a crane splice would not either!

  12. #47
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    Yes, yes I did. She can splice and serve and helm in heavy seas. She also let me spend all of her money on an old wooden boat.

    I'd say that I chose carefully, but really I just got lucky.


    Dragging an old beemer out of a hedge at a young ladies request works wonders eh!

  13. #48
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Not sure Mats, will have to look that one up. An Admiralty splice does not slip, i would hope a crane splice would not either!
    Crane Splice: Each strand goes under two, over one strand, crossing it. Kind of like an eye splice on a three strand rope.
    Liverpool Splice: Each strand goes around and around the same "meeting" strand. Kind of like a sailmakers splice on a three strand rope.

    Liverpool Splice can slip, unless it's served, but well all wire splices should be served...

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student and as a rigger apprentice http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/ in Swedish only, but there are many pictures :-)

  14. #49
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    A fine vessel, and fine work. Thank you for sharing.
    I'm sure you'll be happy with the boat. A good friend owns Nada, Nigel Calder's glass version. I have sailed and cruised on her, she can go anywhere.
    I sympathize with you fog/traffic challenge. I have passed the Chesapeake entrance and entered New York Harbor in very thick fog without radar. I do use a radar reflector, hand held gps, depthsounder, and security call if entering or crossing a channel, which I try to avoid. Wandering Star has steel rigging, bronze stanchions and much other metal in her rig. Commercial ships always see us on radar, though I am careful to stay out of channels and in shallow water when possible.
    Fair winds.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    Now for some glamour shots of the rig. I really like how the serving stands out against the sky. It looks just like the ink on the sailplan drawing.


    Calendar shot
    Alex

    "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. We do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again" Aran Islands Fisherman

  16. #51
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Wait until you've replaced those mint coloured sails, then re-shoot this one. I agree, it's a great shot.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  17. #52
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Great boat. Great thread!

    "And set the sails for the first time. Mygod they are pastel blue and green. Why?!? We do have a full set of cotton sails that are crisp white and appear to have been barely used. For show I guess."

    My guess is that the color in the sails was intended. It's far easier on the eyes in the sun. Not frequently seen these days, to be sure, but pure bright glaring white sails have only been around as long as Dacron. A bit of color tones them down. Eye strain can be more of a problem than one might imagine. It's the sailor's version of "snow blindness." L.F. Herreshoff recommended similar pastel colors (he was partial to the green) for decks and cabin tops to save the eyes. The popularity of sunglasses have provided an alternate solution to the problem, but if your sunglasses go overboard, I bet you'll appreciate the colored sails.
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 08-23-2017 at 03:33 PM.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Getting caught in fog in a small vessel is frustrating. specially single handed. With two, one persons, can focus on steering by the compass and the other can take positions on the GPS (chart plotter??)and all the other stuff. It was worse in the not too distant past with no GPS. Loran was not as helpful. It is still nerve wracking any way you do it because it is difficult to detect the moving stuff, like other vessels.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Let me expand a little on the recent history of the boat. It was purchased in Oregon around the turn of the millennium with some rotten planks in the bow area. Bryan, a professional boatbuilder, bought it for his own boat and brought it up to Canada. He spent 9 months full time restoring the boat. He replanked where necessary, added some frames, relaid the deck, built a galley, added the beautiful bulwarks, covering boards, and aft end of the cabin trunk. His work was top quality and definitely a labor of love.

    The years slipped by, his daughter was born, and the boat never did end up being launched. The boat is named for that daughter, now an extremely talented young ballerina. Their family worked very hard to help us ready the boat and launch it, I am very thankful for that, but even more thankful that they have entrusted their beloved boat to us as the next caretakers.



    The hull is all old growth vertical grain cedar and fir on oak frames. The keel looks to be a massive fir timber, with gumwood stem. Clamp, shelf, and stringers are fir. It is fastened with square iron boat nails in remarkable condition. There are only a few that I am keeping my eye on as the head is starting to get smaller. Bryan included several large boxes of heavy galvanized screws for a refastening job he decided wasn't necessary yet. These are the proper boat screws that are nearly impossible to find these days. The massive tiller is a solid stick of yew. Square nuts are used throughout the construction.



    I did just get word that we will be showing at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival this year (Sept 8-10) so you are all welcome to come see the boat then.


  20. #55
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    I look forward to seeing Julia at PT and meeting you. I'll be there with Fire-Drake.
    Alex

    "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. We do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again" Aran Islands Fisherman

  21. #56
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Bryan sold her!!!!

    Way to go J. Madison and crew.

    Looks great.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Bryan??? Do I know him.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Bryan Gittens from Ladysmith, BC. BTW, Bryan apparently will be attending both the Victoria Classic Show and the PTWBF aboard his 30' wooden Lyle Hess Cutter, SILVANA.

    If you have not made the acquaintance of this engaging character, I would heartily recommend that you look him up. Among many interesting facts, he has single-handed around Cape Horn enroute to South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilberj View Post
    Bryan??? Do I know him.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Don't know him....I'll have to look him up.....Sounds like my sort of guy....

  25. #60
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by AJZimm View Post
    Calendar shot
    now that you mention it…yeah! absolutely!
    BTW, those coloured sails are great. keep them!
    Last edited by Bernadette; 08-24-2017 at 01:55 AM.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    Cost. Those fancy aluminum deadeyes cost more than a turnbuckle. I briefly entertained machining my own, but thought galv rigging screws fit the boat better. The Coligo guys also don't recommend lashings for boats over 30 ft. I'm not sure why, you can certainly make them strong enough. I'm guessing it has to do with rigging preload on modern boats.




    J,
    I'm really taken with your use of the Dyneema and the worming and parcelling... so I'm giving some serious early thoughts to doing the same on my new yacht.
    however, i may have missed an earlier explanation with regards to stretch when the rig is all set up…
    i can see in your photo that the rigging screws or turnbuckles are undone to their almost fullest extent. how much do you anticipate in stretch to allow for the turnbuckles to be tightened/wound in and over what period of time?
    even if i use deadeyes, i will still want to calculate the stay length at launch/set up and allow for any (?) stretch later on.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by MAGIC's Craig View Post
    If you have not made the acquaintance of this engaging character, I would heartily recommend that you look him up. Among many interesting facts, he has single-handed around Cape Horn enroute to South Africa.
    Bryan will indeed be showing his new boat Silvanna at the Port Townsend and Victoria shows. He is a first rate boatbuilder, seaman of great experience, and an all around good guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    J,
    I'm really taken with your use of the Dyneema and the worming and parcelling... so I'm giving some serious early thoughts to doing the same on my new yacht.
    however, i may have missed an earlier explanation with regards to stretch when the rig is all set up…
    i can see in your photo that the rigging screws or turnbuckles are undone to their almost fullest extent. how much do you anticipate in stretch to allow for the turnbuckles to be tightened/wound in and over what period of time?
    even if i use deadeyes, i will still want to calculate the stay length at launch/set up and allow for any (?) stretch later on.
    Good questions. Here is what I have learned so far. Dyneema needs to be sized for stretch and creep, unlike steel which is sized for strength. A good rule of thumb is going up 1 diameter size from the SS it replaces. This usually assures that the rig preload is below the creep threshold so you do not have any problems with creep. The resulting shroud is now several times stronger than the steel but still far lighter.

    I purposefully set the turnbuckles all the way open, just so I have the most ability to tighten the rig as everything settles in. There are two reasons that the length would change, besides creep which I do not anticipate having. First, splicing the top ends showed me that when the rig is loaded for the first time, I will get about an inch out of each shroud as the braid over the splice settles in. This is a 1 time event, but requires enough wind to get to about 15 degrees heel. Second, it is possible that the braid along the rope was slightly upset due to coiling/transport even with the serving. I may get another small amount out of each shroud as this slack is pulled out and the leathered eye settles into its bolster, etc..

    Without serving, I wouldn't have had much chance of getting the lower ends in the right spot. The rope would have changed too much during transport so my final measuring would have been wrong. In that situation I would have had to pre-load each shroud right before I put it on the mast. If you have accurate numbers and are building both ends on the bench, it doesn't matter because you can preload and immediately measure for the bottom splice and then preload again after splicing. Everything will then be perfect when installed.

    Take careful measurements when doing the first splice and you will learn how much it shrinks during the splice, and then how much it gives back when loaded. It will be very consistent.

    Colligo marine is the leader in this stuff in the states. Some good info on their site. They are the sole distributor for the only other option besides the New England STS-HSR that I used. He sells Dynice Dux, which is made by Hampidjan in Iceland for the fishing industry. I believe it is available at better prices outside the US.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    You'll let us know more details once things have settled in then? I love the idea of this stuff as well. Thanks for showing us what you did and how.
    Cheers,
    Daniel
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  29. #64
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    I did use the Colligo package on my trimaran, including the deadeye/lanyard setup rather than turnbuckles. One big advantage here is that the deadeyes can be set far apart so there's a huge amount of allowance for set and "settling in." With turnbuckles, no question the measurements are more critical. As to cost, I'm sure the galvanized turnbuckles win, but compared to stainless turnbuckles and associated fittings, the Colligo deadeyes proved cheaper for me.
    -Dave

  30. #65
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    What was the price for the dynema?

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student and as a rigger apprentice http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/ in Swedish only, but there are many pictures :-)

  31. #66
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post


    I did just get word that we will be showing at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival this year (Sept 8-10) so you are all welcome to come see the boat then.


    Good news on the PT Festival. I will also be there in my much smaller, Emily Ruth. I look forward to meeting you.

    My small boat also uses dyneema for the standing rigging. I did not get the heat treated material but I did pre-load prior to splicing. I also loaded the spliced shrouds and forestay in order to set the splices. The first season I used 1/8" material that is strong enough but resulted in too much stretch. Then I replaced it with the next size up and haven't had any more trouble. I use deadeyes that were shop built.

    Jeff

  32. #67
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    jeff
    thank you for taking the time to answer my question. i will have a look at the Colligo internet site. and please do let us know how the rig settles in once yo get more sea time.
    i had a look at the PT festival lineup: some great boats arriving there. enjoy!

    bernadette

  33. #68
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Very nice job, thank you very much for sharing.

    I am considering also a dyneema rig for my Gartside Cutter, but the lightning protection problem got me rethinking again. Could you comment a little on this topic please? What takes the role of the electricity conducting steel stays in case of lightning on your boat?
    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  34. #69
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    Getting hit by lightning is bad, even with steel stays. A boat with no metal aloft is probably less likely to be hit, but it could be worse if a strike does happen. Pick your poison.

    There are very few boats that are truly set up to absorb a lightning strike safely. I suppose you could still run a conductor up the mast or up one of the shrouds if you were inclined.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

    I can't imagine what a suitable lightning conductor would look like to take the power of a lightning strike from masthead to the water. You'd have a copper rod the size of the mast. I think these systems are like airbags in a car. The car will still be a write-off but you'll survive. Your rig will still be written off, but your boat won't explode into a ball of fire. It certainly is something that needs consideration in a cruising vessel.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

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