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Thread: NZ Elections

  1. #1
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    Default NZ Elections

    Here we go again; another bout of hollow promises, fake smiles, and dish-rag handshakes.
    My solution to most of NZs woes can be summed up in the slogan "WINSTON FOR PRESIDENT!"
    It takes a child to raze a village.
    Give me levity, or give me deaf.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by normil View Post
    Here we go again; another bout of hollow promises, fake smiles, and dish-rag handshakes.
    My solution to most of NZs woes can be summed up in the slogan "WINSTON FOR PRESIDENT!"
    Peters is a charmer. Do you think in some respects he resembles Donald Trump?
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Winston has a sense of humour, a good understanding of his role, and an ability to negotiate with other politicians... so, quite unlike The Donald.

    He does know how to dog-whistle racists though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OliverBendix View Post
    Winston has a sense of humour, a good understanding of his role, and an ability to negotiate with other politicians... so, quite unlike The Donald.

    He does know how to dog-whistle racists though.
    I'm puzzled by the odd contrast between Peters' obvious Polynesian heritage and his hardline stances on immigration, rangatiratanga, and related issues.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Peters is a charmer. Do you think in some respects he resembles Donald Trump?
    In some respects, I guess so. He's a bit of a maverick, quite good looking and a snappy dresser. That's the important stuff, then there's his stance on immigration, negating preferential treatment for Maori are two things I recall seem to be part of his platform. That's enough for me. There may be more but I haven't taken much notice for several years, things may have changed. I've never met the man, he quite possibly has brown eyes, so he probably can't be trusted?
    It takes a child to raze a village.
    Give me levity, or give me deaf.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Winston Peters rates right at the top of a worldwide list of the most un-principled and opportunistic politicians - so he could teach Trump a thing or two about building an enduring semi fanatical support base of the gullible. For all that he is not corrupt (apart from possibly in moral sense), and in NZ we are blessed to be relatively free from that sort of thing.

    In many quarters here he'd be described as a barbed wire king - he can keep hopping from side to side of the fence without losing anything between his legs to the top wire!

    I have heard him speak several times (mainly to "closed audiences" ) and he is indeed charming and a good speaker

    Sorry if that offends anyone but it has to be said.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by normil View Post
    I've never met the man, he quite possibly has brown eyes, so he probably can't be trusted?
    I assume that's a racist joke of some kind? Winston's definitely Maori, and Scottish I think. If you'd really like to start drawing character traits from ethnicity, as indicated by eye colour, I think I'm unlikely to agree with much of your political opinion.

    Forget Winston anyway. This household is experiencing Jacindamania! I'm heartened by Labour's change in fortunes, we need a decent debate and a chance to decide - a couple of months ago I'd have said the election was a foregone conclusion and now it's all on.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Is Bilbo running?

    Rick

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Yep, along with all the usual hobbits who suddenly find they do in fact have a spare few billion to fix every local problem, world peace, pox, warts, and the galloping thing.
    We've gone from a no-contest sort of election, to having the Greens implode in unbelievably spectactular fashion, Labour playing musical leaders six weeks out - and actually finding someone with a modicum of personality and charisma, and an (almost) independent MP aligned with the Nats deciding to call it a day.
    For the first time in nine years, National probably have cause to be very worried. They have dropped the ball unbelievably badly on housing affordability and immigration IMO. I mean seriously, where the f##k did they think all those extra people were going to live?
    That, and govt debt going from 10bil when they took over, to 60bil now. After nine years, they've got to that condescending arrogance stage, so time for a change.

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

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    She is extremely good at not buying into other peoples $hit and negative politics. Can that attitude be transformed into positive policy? Dunno, but I'd sort of like to see her have a go. She'd either be spectacularly successful, or preside over the labour party self immolating like never before. I dont think there would be a middle ground.

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OliverBendix View Post
    I assume that's a racist joke of some kind? Winston's definitely Maori, and Scottish I think. If you'd really like to start drawing character traits from ethnicity, as indicated by eye colour, I think I'm unlikely to agree with much of your political opinion.

    Forget Winston anyway. This household is experiencing Jacindamania! I'm heartened by Labour's change in fortunes, we need a decent debate and a chance to decide - a couple of months ago I'd have said the election was a foregone conclusion and now it's all on.
    Yep, what FP (#6) said. I think Winston is probably a good bloke (he must be 'cause his home turf is Whananaki near my favourite fishing spot 1971-2) that aside, frankly I don't trust any of them. I'm sure most are in it for personal gain: make enough noise to get elected for two terms then retire on an exorbitant pension, in the meantime, invest heavily in something like safety equipment, and pass legislation to make it compulsory, followed by creating another snout-in-the-public-purse to enforce said legislation, and on it goes. in no time they're as happy as a pig in warm ****. At least that's the way it looks.

    Peters has found himself as "king-maker" a couple of times, don't know how he can break through that ceiling.

    Not sure about the girl taking the helm of the Labour party. May be a hit with State-worshippers and others who can't let go of mommy's' apron strings, but then they're pretty much the Labour Party base IMO. Also, having a woman in charge has seldom ended well (think Germany, Philippines, Hewlett-Packard, et al) maybe it's something to do with that nurturing thing that gets in the way of tough decisions? I give up. (Before you mention it, Clarke, Shipley, Thatcher etc. are not my idea of "women")

    The Greens OTOH are obviously colour-blind (closet Communists) though I share their enthusiasm for Hemp (of the oil/fibre/soil-rejuvenating variety, not the THC stuff) there seems to be some potential there, but no doubt such a crop would make good camouflage for the THC stuff.

    Then there's this new guy who wants to kill off all the cats....

    Slim pickings really.

    Cheers

    Norm
    It takes a child to raze a village.
    Give me levity, or give me deaf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by normil View Post
    Peters has found himself as "king-maker" a couple of times, don't know how he can break through that ceiling.
    His billboards around the place ask "Have you had enough" and I'm very inclined to answer him, yes I've had enough of Winston, especially in the role of kingmaker. However, odds are he'll get to do it again, 21 years after he first had the opportunity at the 96 election.

    Not sure about the girl taking the helm of the Labour party.
    She's a star. Hope she lives up to her apparent promise. This kind of thing really gives me hope, a mainstream party politician who understands the threat we pose to ourselves and isn't afraid to talk about it.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by OliverBendix View Post
    His billboards around the place ask "Have you had enough" and I'm very inclined to answer him, yes I've had enough of Winston, especially in the role of kingmaker. However, odds are he'll get to do it again, 21 years after he first had the opportunity at the 96 election.

    She's a star. Hope she lives up to her apparent promise. This kind of thing really gives me hope, a mainstream party politician who understands the threat we pose to ourselves and isn't afraid to talk about it.
    I'm not a fan of Peters, or some of the whackoes in his party. Not so much from what we see in the media or hear on radio but rather from watching him and a couple of fat cat looking companions give a waitress a really hard time, nasty insulting stuff, when she was the only one on at the time. She was really doing her best, serving customers in the order in which they'd ordered, but that wasnt good enough for those three, who gave every indication of having been drinking. Peters seemed to think that because of his position he should be served before anyone else.
    He's good at getting in front of the media and saying words at the right time to get attention, but I'm not a fan at all.
    I like Ardern, but remember that we're not electing just a Party leader, we're electing a party, and the team behind her seems a bit thin to me.
    That said, I think that the incumbents need to go take a break, but I'm not sure about any possible coalition as a replacement.
    Ah well, I've a month or so to consider the options.

    John Welsford
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    Quote Originally Posted by normil View Post
    Yep, what FP (#6) said. I think Winston is probably a good bloke (he must be 'cause his home turf is Whananaki near my favourite fishing spot 1971-2) that aside, frankly I don't trust any of them. I'm sure most are in it for personal gain: make enough noise to get elected for two terms then retire on an exorbitant pension, in the meantime, invest heavily in something like safety equipment, and pass legislation to make it compulsory, followed by creating another snout-in-the-public-purse to enforce said legislation, and on it goes. in no time they're as happy as a pig in warm ****. At least that's the way it looks.

    Peters has found himself as "king-maker" a couple of times, don't know how he can break through that ceiling.

    Not sure about the girl taking the helm of the Labour party. May be a hit with State-worshippers and others who can't let go of mommy's' apron strings, but then they're pretty much the Labour Party base IMO. Also, having a woman in charge has seldom ended well (think Germany, Philippines, Hewlett-Packard, et al) maybe it's something to do with that nurturing thing that gets in the way of tough decisions? I give up. (Before you mention it, Clarke, Shipley, Thatcher etc. are not my idea of "women")

    The Greens OTOH are obviously colour-blind (closet Communists) though I share their enthusiasm for Hemp (of the oil/fibre/soil-rejuvenating variety, not the THC stuff) there seems to be some potential there, but no doubt such a crop would make good camouflage for the THC stuff.

    Then there's this new guy who wants to kill off all the cats....

    Slim pickings really.

    Cheers

    Norm
    Wow, sexist neanderthals DO still exist.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Is Barnaby running?

    Rick

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Wow, sexist neanderthals DO still exist.
    Yep, but some of us are clever enough to keep it to ourselves
    It takes a child to raze a village.
    Give me levity, or give me deaf.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    One bit I've never understood, given his heritage, is Peters's evident hostility to the Mäori Party and to Mäori in politics.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...fiery-exchange

    The US has characters such as Justice Clarence Thomas, who seems biased against black people. Is Peters that sort?
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

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    I had hoped this little chat would veer more toward the "President" part of the OP(?) as in NZ being a Republic (or whatever it is that Presidents are president of) rather than being a British Colony or Australia's baby sister. We may well be a group of islands in the Pacific, but we are not "Pacific Islanders" even though most of them seem to be here. I chose Winston for no other reason than he seems to be the only MP who has the necessary pluck/spunk to make such a radical change. What say you?

    Cheers

    Norm
    It takes a child to raze a village.
    Give me levity, or give me deaf.

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    "I think that the incumbents need to go take a break, but I'm not sure about any possible coalition as a replacement." - JW

    I think you have summed up the feeling of much of the country. Plan A is getting stale but Plan B is still undercooked.

    (Now I am thinking about cakes. Better than politics anyway)

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by normil View Post
    Yep, but some of us are clever enough to keep it to ourselves
    Clever people don't make stupid comments such as saying that women are too soft and then "supporting" that ridiculous claim by excluding the women who disprove it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Clever people don't make stupid comments such as saying that women are too soft and then "supporting" that ridiculous claim by excluding the women who disprove it.
    My comment was supposed to be self-deprecating, sorry you missed it
    It takes a child to raze a village.
    Give me levity, or give me deaf.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    What say you?
    As a Canadian in a roughly similar country politically (a parliamentary constitutional monarchy with Queen Elizabeth II as our nominal head of state), I say don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Robert Mugabe got elected - once. GW Bush got elected - almost. Donald Trump got elected - kind of. It is far from the worst possible system, and it shows remarkable resilience and adaptability as the world changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Is Barnaby running?

    Rick
    They can have him, hey bro?

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by normil View Post
    I had hoped this little chat would veer more toward the "President" part of the OP(?) as in NZ being a Republic (or whatever it is that Presidents are president of) rather than being a British Colony or Australia's baby sister. We may well be a group of islands in the Pacific, but we are not "Pacific Islanders" even though most of them seem to be here. I chose Winston for no other reason than he seems to be the only MP who has the necessary pluck/spunk to make such a radical change. What say you?

    Cheers

    Norm
    If it were up to me I'd give him the job of governor of the Auckland Islands, required to be in residence for the full term, with no cellphone or radio.
    Being as no one lives there, he wouldn't need any staff for his office, could spend his days fishing. On his own.

    John Welsford
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Is Barnaby running?

    Rick
    No, we have sufficient Joyces of our own...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Joyce

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    One bit I've never understood, given his heritage, is Peters's evident hostility to the Mäori Party and to Mäori in politics.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...fiery-exchange

    The US has characters such as Justice Clarence Thomas, who seems biased against black people. Is Peters that sort?

    "Hostility" might be a bit strong of a word as yet, more an annoyance or irritation that a group with so little to offer is so well rewarded as I said earlier about Maori being pandered to as though we owe them a living (depending who you talk to, and who is honest about it). Beats me why the NZ taxpayer should be forking out for Maori's petty grievances when their beef should be with the British Crown? What's that line about "the sins of the fathers being visited on the children"?
    I sometimes suspect that Maori hold little workshops all over the country periodically to re-invent their "culture" to qualify for another hand-out.
    I hear that Maori language is now compulsory in schools ? What a crock! My basic smattering of Latin has served be far better than anything I ever learnt about Maori. Besides, the language is not pretty (spitting consonants like a cantankerous child) and the "culture" has no value in the real world outside of the mud-eye (spell-check didn't like the way I spelled it).
    I'm sure the USA didn't get to be "the greatest Nation on Earth" (albeit self-proclaimed) by embracing the Sioux or the Cherokee or the Eskimos or whoever, any more than Australia became what it is today by embracing the Aborigines. How can we ever hope to be a First World Nation if we let third-world cultures (native and imported) drag us back to the dark ages?
    There must be a million stories of how Maori are creaming it off the NZ taxpayer: Funny how $800k made some voodoo ghost disappear so we could put a road through? Land that the early settlers made productive has often become a "sacred Site" because some mythical ancestor supposedly took a dump there. They tried to claim ownership of the Wellington waterfront until they learnt it was all reclaimed land. They want to claim ownership of the foreshore and seabed so they can exact a fee from all who cross it. Un-effin-believable! And we let this happen?

    That's my rant for a while

    Cheers

    Norm
    It takes a child to raze a village.
    Give me levity, or give me deaf.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    If it were up to me I'd give him the job of governor of the Auckland Islands, required to be in residence for the full term, with no cellphone or radio.
    Being as no one lives there, he wouldn't need any staff for his office, could spend his days fishing. On his own.

    John Welsford

    Yep. Living the dream!?
    It takes a child to raze a village.
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    Quote Originally Posted by normil View Post
    My comment was supposed to be self-deprecating, sorry you missed it
    Okay. There are other men out there who are happy to be derogatory towards women and some of us think we should speak out against it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    I like Ardern, but remember that we're not electing just a Party leader, we're electing a party, and the team behind her seems a bit thin to me.
    Unproven team, I suppose. Certainly, the English/Joyce etc combo can say they have plenty of experience. I'm still ready for a change, and have always been a lefty voter anyway.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    Normil - you seem to have bought heavily into the racist Maori bludger story.

    When I look at Maori resilience in the face of being cheated, dispossessed, disenfranchised by Pakeha, and see people who are restoring their culture and mana in the midst of what's still a Pakeha-centric country, I think that they're people with a great deal to offer the world. And I think the NZ government is right to offer Treaty deals which go some way toward restoring what the Crown and our ancestors took from them. That's the least we should do.

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    Default Re: NZ Elections

    I'm sorry to see views such as Normil's expressed here, I thought that as a nation we were getting better educated and generally improving our knowledge of history and the relationships we share as peoples of Aotearoa. Guess there's always a segment of the bell curve who are behind the times.

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    an aside from your politics to ours……..
    New Zealander of the Year is 'for those who have contributed to the wellbeing of New Zealand'.

    And the second highest nominations have been received for………………….Barnaby Joyce!

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    Sorry I'm late had a bit of a dry spell that allowed me to mow the lawn, then my sister who I haven't seen for years dragged me off on some bush walk, not high on my list of priorities. Then yesterday the internet crashed forcing most of Cambridge to shut up shop. I bet the kids thought their throat had been cut!.

    Anyhoo...

    My last post was in reply to a post that mentioned Maori. Granted, they got a raw deal, (I'm sure the folk who drafted the Treaty made sure they got the better side of the deal, I don't know, never read it, don't intend to) that was a long time ago. How long must we go on apologising and compensating for things that were neither your fault nor mine? Stuff happens, we get over it and move on.

    My spiel was not intended to be racist as such, merely identifying a group (one of many) who seem to believe that they are somehow entitled to preferential treatment.
    I could equally have raved on about cripples, queers, Feminists, short people, religious cranks and snowflakes etc., who identify themselves as separate entities from the rest of us, and that we should cow-tow to their every demand. Had I gone down any of those paths I would surely be branded with the relative "ist".


    Though I probably have good reason to be, I don't believe I am a Racist, certainly not toward Maori. I was at school with the late Billy T James (1960-61), quite a shy kid but when he opened up he was hilarious. If all Maori were like him I'd be stoked.
    Then there's my High School years at an all boys boarding school quite heavily populated with Islanders and Maori, many of whom were Prefects who behaved like "Brown shirts" toward anyone who was not part of their "gang". Some wounds run deep. Maybe I am scarred? Like I said, we get over it, and move on.
    Over the years I've had many Maori workmates and we got along famously. I wish I could do it all again. Maybe things were different then?

    Thanks for the chat
    Cheers

    Norm
    It takes a child to raze a village.
    Give me levity, or give me deaf.

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