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Thread: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    4

    Default Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    Greetings
    I am looking for a canoe, guide boat type plan,
    car top
    approx 12'

    Water conditions would be a slow deep or slow shallow creek, sand bars or faster but skinny shallow water areas, protected areas


    Total weight two people and gear 400ponds
    Two people but only one paddler (me) the wife is along for the ride 90%- 10% paddle if needed to help steer

    I have looked around
    12' Adirondack Particulars 39"
    http://www.selway-fisher.com/Opcan15.htm

    12'6" OUTBOARD MOTOR CANOE
    http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcanoe.htm

    Classic 12 skin frame, modified to replace the back frames with the same flatter profile of the middle frames, flatter frames running all the way to the back of the boat.
    http://www.gaboats.com/boats/classic12_design.html

    I know it is an odd combination, didn’t know if there was anything out there without modifying a plan to fit my purpose

    Thanks
    Ken

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    187

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    Those seem to have a much greater capacity than most canoes in that length range. I would think that if they will actually take the weights mentioned, they will not paddle as easily as longer canoes of the same capacity. Of course, this opinion may not be worth what it cost you.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,465

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    Two people in anything which closely resembles a typical canoe or guideboat and which is only 12' long is far from an ideal situation. It will be slow as hell and ride way down in the water. One of the toughest things to do when you sell canoes is to get people to buy a canoe long enough to perform decently and have some glide. I do like the looks of that Selway Fisher motor canoe though. It's not really much of a canoe, by normal standards, but it's a pretty nice looking boat and it has enough beam to carry that kind of load better.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Cumbria, UK
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    From your choices I assume when you say paddle you are including rowing.
    I ordered plans some years ago for the Selway Fisher motor canoe. When they arrived there was a note to say by using the panel shapes on the left ply panel you can produce a 15' 10" x 44" double ended canoe.
    So I built it. I have only rowed it once (due to personal circumstances) at 44" wide it is ideal for 7' oars, it seemed to go well. The quoted weight at 55lb for the motor canoe is optimistic probably based on 4mm ply.
    At the time you could build in 4, 5 or 6mm ply. Fisher now only recommends 6mm ply. I built it in 4mm ply and with only some inside sheathing, comfortably exceeded that weight. It is quite flat bottomed so a bit flexible at 4mm.
    Some people build canoes with 6mm for the bottom and 4mm for the sides.
    I see you are open to skin on frame, you could consider Dave Gentry's Whitehall http://gentrycustomboats.com/Whitehallpage.html
    Slightly longer at 13' 6".
    Some members on here have built them
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...OATS-design(s)
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...SOF-Whitehalls

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,227

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    Upping the length to 14' will help you considerably with your weight request of 400lbs, and even then you'll be pushing it. My friend and I trip in a Snowshoe Explorer 14, with gear we come slightly more than 400' in the boat but we are hitting the very top end for this length, we both have to paddle to make any appreciable distance. The boat is approx 28lbs.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    So my original plan is not tenable

    lets start over , needs to be paddled with canoe paddles
    we have rented a aluminum canoe on the Illinois rive in OK , low flow at times dragging the canoe in some places gravel bars, these are beat up and the bottom popped cancave more than a few times, lots of downed trees and narrow channels, it is not a damed river lots of remodeling after flooding.

    I would like to use it on the red river TX/OK below the Texoma dam, when they are not generating power lots of sand bars and narrow passages very shallow.

    Trenity river in the North Texas area usually narrower slow moving water

    needs to be light weight, 400-450 pounds, more flat bottomed to limit possible dragging over sand and grave bars

    16' ?

    thanks

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
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    1,876

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    You really are describing typical canoe type of use. A pretty wood strip canoe will be up to the task but it won't stay pretty very long.... unless you carry varnish with you The Prospector is a much loved design at 15-16 ft with PLENTY of capacity.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  8. #8
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    Jan 2005
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    Deepest Darkest Wales
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    18,178

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    If capacity and shallow draught matter above all else, you're hard put to beat a Punt.

    http://www.selway-fisher.com/SharpieDory.htm#BRIDGE

    You'd need a quant to go with it.
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    450

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    central cal
    Posts
    9,345

    Default


    Here's a punt. Not fun to paddle far, but fairly able craft, surprisingly. Take wakes on the quarter and it doesn't even ship water...


    And, it's still fairly easy to paddle alone standing on the rear deck, or just ahead of the rear deck.
    I paddled two miles with my long single, here. Way back to camp. It was what I would call gradual, grudging progress, but the boat does carry way.

    Peace,
    Robert

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    How about these
    The Bayou skiff 13' 9". a little to much rocker up front.
    http://www.unclejohns.com/bysk14/Default.htm

    sassafras 16 canoe
    http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/c...canoe-kit.html

    The pirogue , 13' 9"
    https://www.cajunsecret.com/faq



    Growler 15 ft
    . http://www.jordanwoodboats.com/wood-....php?s=growler

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Stratford, ON
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    Maybe this ... kinda guide boat-ish but narrower - 34"
    Can be built light with strip construction.
    15' though.

    Angler's Special - Dimensions.jpg
    Full disclosure. I drew her.
    http://ashesstillwaterboats.com/the-ashes-angler/
    Trevor Paetkau
    http://ashesstillwaterboats.com
    Stratford, ON

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Santa Fe NM
    Posts
    130

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan



    http://www.selway-fisher.com/Opcan16.htm

    Selway-Fisher's Waterman, not a guidboat but 38" wide and a good reputation. I agreed with what has been said already. 12' is too short for me. My 16' canoe feels just right for me, it works with two, but for two I would prefer a 17'er. You stated 400 pounds cargo weight for two people and gear, I assume this is daytrip gear, and not big people.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario, Canada
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    3,821

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    A 12ft canoe is only practical for a child, or a very small adult. A 200 lb man immerses a 12 ft canoe too far, and then its drag is too great when you paddle it, and it has no glide.

    You can make it wider of course, so that it doesn't sink into the water so much, like a SportsPal, but then same thing, it has no glide.

    I made a 10ft skin canoe for my kids. I can paddle it, and have used it as a tender for a small sailboat, but I'd hate to go any distance in it. I also have a 14ft wood-canvas, and have used it for wilderness tripping, but that's about the minimum length for me, and even then you end up wishing it went farther with each stroke. Not to mention hitting more rocks because the draft is increased.

    For solo tripping I would like to make a 15 ft stripper, as light as possible, designed for a load of me (190 lbs) and camp gear for a week. Probably a 34 " beam so it doesn't sink into the water too far, and a bit of rocker so it doesn't turn like a barge. No keel, so that you don't get hung up on rocks when in streams and shallows.

    Dave

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Long Beach, California
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    220

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan



    The Lutra Flyfisher (Arrowhead Custon Boats) is 16' long, 36" wide, 65 lbs if built to spec. It will take 2 persons with lots of gear, draft is ~3".
    I have one of these and love it. One person can paddle it, unless you are going upwind or want to go fast.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    Thanks, everyone, I haven’t settled on a final design yet
    I do like the Lutra Flyfisher, and I have been looking at the Chuckanut 17
    I am a big guy 6’4 240# and my wife ummm of my weight,
    So the two of us and some gear for a day trip, she is generally relaxing and going along for the ride while I provide the propulsion.




    http://gentrycustomboats.com/pics/C17c.jpg
    Last edited by KnHn; 09-17-2017 at 01:28 PM.

  17. #17
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    Sep 2014
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    Long Beach, California
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    220

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    image.jpgimage.jpg
    Some more information about the Lutra: there are 3 seating positions; on the bottom of the Boat, on one of the decks, or standing. This helps keep legs, etc, from cramping. I like to paddle with a single paddle from the rear unless standing, then I use a double paddle to reach the water. I will paddle standing if the wind is behind or at my rear quarter when my body acts as a sail to propel the boat. The paddle is mostly used to steer in these situations. The boat is very stable and even with small wakes it is no problem standing up.
    The boat has a layer of glass on the outside bottom and garboard strakes for abrasion resistance. The hatches are very roomy and holds a lot of gear.

  18. #18
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    Aug 2009
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    New Hampshire
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    1,227

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post

    Here's a punt. Not fun to paddle far, but fairly able craft, surprisingly. Take wakes on the quarter and it doesn't even ship water...


    And, it's still fairly easy to paddle alone standing on the rear deck, or just ahead of the rear deck.
    I paddled two miles with my long single, here. Way back to camp. It was what I would call gradual, grudging progress, but the boat does carry way.

    Peace,
    Robert
    This is a very romantic punt, Rob. Reminds me of the punt in American Boys Handy Book. Your design?

  19. #19
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    Mar 2010
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    central cal
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    9,345

    Default Re: Shallow water Canoe, guide boat type plan

    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    This is a very romantic punt, Rob. Reminds me of the punt in American Boys Handy Book. Your design?
    Hehe. Sure. Design. Really it's just one of those eye ball jobs. The side panels were cut to shape, then we decided last minute to just make it a box boat. No flare, no shape. The ends are straight because the knuckle type joint was easier to do with the kids.
    They helped with every part, so we tried to do as much screwing as gluing, to make it feel like really building something, you know?

    We were very hesitant about it being any more than a barge and/or raft, but it actually moves pretty well. I'm thinking to add some thole pins to her. Why not? By the by, it tows well as a barge. Load it up, and pull it on a long line. Or push it, if you're that type. Hehe.

    What she really needs is a sculling oar. Sit right on the thwart and scull over the rear...

    Anyway. Thank you. We love her, thoughnthe way we treat her would seem to suggest otherwise.

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. The long overhangs allow grand and great grandmothers to board with ease. The dog, too. They also make excellent casting decks for two people, and, yes, it is an AWESOME swim raft. Climb over one end, then leap off the other. Whee!

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