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Thread: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

  1. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    At which time he declares himself fit. And the cycle repeats. You really need to read the amendment and think about it.

    You seem to think that the House and Senate will not change their rules and hold a kangaroo court. (I have no problems with no prosecution witnesses and a 30 minute verbal statement from the president.)
    There will never be a quick, kangaroo court impeachment. The impeachment of Nixon was a slam dunk, yet the Judiciary committee started it's impeachment hearing in early May. Nixon resigned in late August before he was impeached.



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  2. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    TLT, that's not what it says; it's not written as an infinite loop. Here's the text, relevant section in bold.

    If there's a 2/3 majority vote of both houses of Congress, the President's out.

    I wouldn't bet on it unless Trump goes completely and obviously nuts, or has some serious medical problem, a stroke or something. Getting a 2/3 majority in both houses would be damn near impossible.
    You are likely right. But it might happen, if my calculations are correct, it would take 101 Republicans. Remember, this is after the cabinet would have voted him unfit for office. He would be severely damaged politically at that point. I suspect the odds are against the cabinet ever declaring him unfit, that is what makes it unlikely.

    A more likely possibility, in my mind, is a revolt by Republicans when they see how bad the midterms might go. At that point, they would negotiate a resignation from Trump.

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  3. #38
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    Here is a wild speculation. The house could pick the next president. Thet force a resignation if Trump and Pence, then before the resignation takes effect, they could vote anyone in as Speaker of the House.

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  4. #39
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    A Gridlocked Washington and rudderless leadership make for tricky projections. The wildcard is Trump and his narcissism. The 20 percent that support him can not be swayed. As long as he has them and Bannon on the outside, Trump can last till his entire term as long as the house of representives does not change significantly.

    Suppose Trump proposes something like universal single payer healthcare. We may see a few necks break.
    Before Charlottesville, he might have drawn some Dems to a "holding their noses" type of support for a Trump sponsored single payer proposal. But now? He's toxic. He's burned any Dem support he could have wheedled into ignoring all the other stuff. And there is no notion that the Republicans in either house could get any majority to pass such a thing, even in one place. They're broken.

    It is remarkable just how much more broken the US government is today, under allegedly Republican control of white house and Congress, even than it was this time last year. And we, none of us, really believed that was likely.
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Here is a wild speculation. The house could pick the next president. Thet force a resignation if Trump and Pence, then before the resignation takes effect, they could vote anyone in as Speaker of the House.

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    I've been sayin this!
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  6. #41
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Before Charlottesville, he might have drawn some Dems to a "holding their noses" type of support for a Trump sponsored single payer proposal. But now? He's toxic. He's burned any Dem support he could have wheedled into ignoring all the other stuff. And there is no notion that the Republicans in either house could get any majority to pass such a thing, even in one place. They're broken.

    It is remarkable just how much more broken the US government is today, under allegedly Republican control of white house and Congress, even than it was this time last year. And we, none of us, really believed that was likely.
    Their plan has always been to break the government.

    It's sorta like watching a dog who finally CAUGHT the car.
    Rattling the teacups.

  7. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I've been sayin this!
    Sorry to "steal" your idea, I must have missed it.

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  8. #43
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Sorry to "steal" your idea, I must have missed it.

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    No worries.

    Great minds think alike, eh?

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  9. #44
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time
    Anyone who has read the 25th amendment should realize the president only has to declare he is fit and he is back in office. There is no way to force a president out of office by this process.
    Wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time
    At which time he declares himself fit. And the cycle repeats. You really need to read the amendment and think about it.
    As do you.* The text of the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (note the highlighted portion):

    Section 1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

    Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

    Section 3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

    Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

    Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
    So if the Vice-President and a majority of the cabinet declare the POTUS unfit to hold the office, and 2/3 of Congress agree, the man is forced out. Permanently.


    * Your condescension is noted.
    .
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 08-20-2017 at 06:52 AM.
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  10. #45
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Won't happen I'd say. Reason……….. GOP loss of face. I mean it was bad enough when 16 candidates cancelled each other out and Donald made a successful take over. But after all that to admit they backed a turkey? In public?
    Won't happen. You are stuffed.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Wrong.



    As do you.* The text of the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (note the highlighted portion):



    So if the Vice-President and a majority of the cabinet declare the POTUS unfit to hold the office, and 2/3 of Congress agree, the man is forced out. Permanently.


    * Your condescension is noted.
    .
    And, as usual, ironically unwarranted...
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Wrong.
    The fallacy in your argument is that 2/3rds of both houses will support a palace coup. Actually the fallacy of both arguments - 25th amendment or impeachment, is that either has sufficient support.
    Life is complex.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    No argument. Simply a straight reading of the meaning of the 25th Amendment.

    Can't stand admitting an error, eh?
    " Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy. You in America will see that some day."

    " The truth is that men are tired of liberty."

    -- Benito Mussolini



  14. #49
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    As fast as the cabinet turns over, how would they ever get a majority?????
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    It seems like pretty soon enough cats will get fired and not replaced that 3 people will make a cabinet majority.

    Peace,
    Robert

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.


    The highlighted phrase above is why Trump won't be removed using the 25th Amendment. Pence would never want to alienate the Trump faithful.
    Trump himself warned us: “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and wouldn’t lose any voters, ok? It’s, like, incredible.” — Donald Trump
    I've seen no evidence of that changing and Pence would never run that risk.
    Skip

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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    No argument. Simply a straight reading of the meaning of the 25th Amendment.

    Can't stand admitting an error, eh?
    I did not make up the argument. There seem to be reasonable people who read it the way I claim. Perhaps the Supreme Court will weigh in.
    Life is complex.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    There seem to be reasonable people who read it the way I claim.
    They may be reasonable--but that doesn't make them less wrong about reading it your way. It says what it says, not what you want it to say, or what you mistakenly think it says.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    The general impression is that politically the US is floundering.
    Civilly many of the safeguards are and have been removed.
    Your military seem to be doing their job still.
    Even they seem under stress.

    Collisions plus this
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=11932462

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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    The best solution would be if he and Pence were the victims of a natural disaster, like getting hit by lightening or a giant Oak falling on their heads, or a small asteroid landing on them... the hand of God at work. I am on the fence about God, but that would make me a believer.
    If he ever drinks the brew of 10 tanna leaves, he will become a monster the likes of which the world has never seen



  21. #56
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    My dad always answered brides/grooms requests for decent weather by saying "I'm in sales, not management." But I'll send a memo up the food chain about your lightning idea.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigadog View Post
    The best solution would be if he and Pence were the victims of a natural disaster, like getting hit by lightening or a giant Oak falling on their heads, or a small asteroid landing on them... the hand of God at work. I am on the fence about God, but that would make me a believer.
    Skip

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  23. #58
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    Mr. Trump seems to be losing support in high places at an astonishing rate.
    He now thinks that his friends are his enemies.
    Anyhow, I bet you a dollar that he will be out before 2018 ends, and I mean it.
    Don't worry I'm happy

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    Justice is sometimes harder to achieve."

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  24. #59
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Europe is saying, re Donald's Iran attitudes, that they are giving them common cause with Russia and China over the treaty which, from present inspection regimes, it seems to be complying.

    beernd the 'end of 2018' may be a tad too late.

  25. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by beernd View Post
    He now thinks that his friends are his enemies.
    Anyhow, I bet you a dollar that he will be out before 2018 ends, and I mean it.
    I would not take that bet.

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