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Thread: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

  1. #1
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    Default Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    .
    The Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Bob Corker (R-TN), said publicly that Trump has yet to display the stability and competence needed in a POTUS and unless he does so the nation is in a great peril:

    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 08-18-2017 at 03:46 PM.
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Mr. Trump seems to be losing support in high places at an astonishing rate.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Just a reminder don't get your hopes up! The 25th Amendment route is really an outside chance, the part being referenced is section 4. Even in the unlikely event the cabinet turned on Trump, I think he would fight it.

    Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
    Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.[3]
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    I posted this on a nother thread, but it might be appropriate here:
    Art of the Deal co-author predicts Donald Trump is about to resign

    'Trump's presidency is effectively over. Would be amazed if he survives till the end of the year. More likely resigns by fall if not sooner,' says Tony Schwartz
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...=facebook-post
    The co-author of Donald Trump’s memoir The Art of the Deal has predicted the US President is going to resign by autumn if not sooner.
    Tony Schwartz, who claims to have ghostwritten the 1987 best-selling business book, argued Mr Trump is on the brink of stepping down and said he would be shocked if his presidency lasts until the end of the year.
    Mr Schwartz, who has been a vocal critic of President Trump and spent 18 months interviewing and shadowing him in the 1980's, suggested he would negotiate a deal for immunity in the Russia investigation in exchange for giving up his seat in the Oval Office.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    I don't think it'll happen. DT has a long way to go before Pence and the cabinet declare him incompetent with 2/3 of both houses voting him out. Trump will have to screw up a lot, lot more for people to declare mutiny.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    REAL slowly.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    I think the resignation is more likely. He will just declare moral bankruptcy on his administration and move on to his next "big thing"!
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I posted this on a nother thread, but it might be appropriate here:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...=facebook-post
    Maybe, there has to be something really egregious from the investigation other than Trump being on the periphery of business activities that involve laundering Russian oligarchs money. In the meantime his disgraceful and demeaning rhetoric isn't enough for Congress to take him down. It'll probably take people at rallies rejecting him for him to walk out. Something visceral like "his base" rejecting him.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    No way he resigns before Mueller aquits or charges him and his family he might need to pardon himself or family members.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    So if as it seems he is moral free, what makes you think he will go of his own volition? I don't think so, he's enjoying the perks, splitting the country in a what seems a rather effective 'divide and conquer' policy. And the GOP, after their performance during the Obama presidency, and having kow tow'd for a sniff of power, have little moral capital left to argue their own case.
    I think you are screwed, and for some time yet I fear.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    I think that he will eventually resign because it will get too onerous for him not to be adored by the citizenry. The job will stop being a source of adulation to him, and he will chafe at restrictions on him that surely must come as the Republicans try to salvage their reputation. I think that an endless stream of chanting and booing protesters everywhere he goes will demoralize him to the point that he leaves.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Resignation by tweet? Or at a rally?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    tweet, at about 03.00.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    ...
    25th amendment is a poor solution. You might read it from the point of the president. It is impossible to remove a president from office using this method.

    Impeachment takes a morning. And it is done with.

    But pay Trump a few billion and he might go away.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    "But pay Trump a few billion and he might go away."

    I doubt it,
    and anyway do you really wish the country to go down that path?

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    If Trump leaves, Bannon's "movement" is where Trump will land, to lead the Fascists.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    I think the resignation is more likely. He will just declare moral bankruptcy on his administration and move on to his next "big thing"!
    He could run against Putin...

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post

    Impeachment takes a morning. And it is done with.
    Impeachment is only a charge. Prosecution and removal from office after impeachment will take longer than a morning.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    If Trump leaves, Bannon's "movement" is where Trump will land, to lead the Fascists.
    OK.

    If you see a future where Trump leaves office a free man BEFORE Mueller gets done, I'd like to hear how you think he will be persuaded to forgo the 'pardon' power?

    That's the danger of having a full-on, global investigation.

    Mueller has assembled a dream team, and they're just getting started. There are probably a couple dozen US Senators who are a little nervous about that these days.

    What happens in Caracas doesn't necessarily STAY in Caracas, any more.

    Istanbul, neither.

    Trump feels safe in the Oval Office largely because he has built this fantasy Pardonworld, where his beloved Ivanka will be safe from prosecution.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    He could run against Putin...
    Now that there is funny.


    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    I see the potential for Bannon and Trump trying to motivate folks to use those famous 2nd Amendment remedies, using Breitbart as the mouthpiece of the "revolution."

    They will fail miserably if they actually try, but it could be that the hubris really reaches that far, and the alt.right proves more militant and numerous than it presently seems. We might know more depending on what happens respecting followup events to Charlottesville.

    The weirder parts of the Tea Party have been threatening such armed responses for nearly a decade, eh?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    OK.

    If you see a future where Trump leaves office a free man BEFORE Mueller gets done, I'd like to hear how you think he will be persuaded to forgo the 'pardon' power?

    That's the danger of having a full-on, global investigation.

    Mueller has assembled a dream team, and they're just getting started. There are probably a couple dozen US Senators who are a little nervous about that these days.

    What happens in Caracas doesn't necessarily STAY in Caracas, any more.

    Istanbul, neither.

    Trump feels safe in the Oval Office largely because he has built this fantasy Pardonworld, where his beloved Ivanka will be safe from prosecution.
    Resignation with a different sort of "Golden Handshake" as a persuader.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...=facebook-post
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    But pay Trump a few billion and he might go away.
    ...
    "We don't negotiate with terrorists” Ronald Raygun
    Study Peace

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Impeachment is only a charge. Prosecution and removal from office after impeachment will take longer than a morning.
    Since both the House and Senate have the sole right to make the rules, the process can be done in a morning.

    Anyone who has read the 25th amendment should realize the president only has to declare he is fit and he is back in office. There is no way to force a president out of office by this process.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Coose View Post
    ...
    I am a pragmatist.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    He'll leave the presidency Jan. 20, 2025. While dems are wasting time trying to convince somebody, everybody, that 60 million Americans are racists, he keeps trudging on.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    He'll leave the presidency Jan. 20, 2025. While dems are wasting time trying to convince somebody, everybody, that 60 million Americans are racists, he keeps trudging on.
    Hang on.

    Do you mean to tell me that there is ANY DOUBT that ~20% of the population are racists?


    Weird.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    David G
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    ^ lol
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Mueller will get something on him, and he will resign as part of a deal not to prosecute?
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Since both the House and Senate have the sole right to make the rules, the process can be done in a morning.

    Anyone who has read the 25th amendment should realize the president only has to declare he is fit and he is back in office. There is no way to force a president out of office by this process.
    No, if he declares he is fit, the House has 21 days to say otherwise by 2/3rds vote.

    Removal of office via impeachment will take weeks, not one morning. From the time Clinton was impeached until the end of the senate trial: Dec 19th to Feb 12th. Almost 2 months. From the time Johnson was impeached until the end of the senate trial: March 2nd to May 26, almost 3 months. Neither of these examples includes the time of the house deliberations in committee and on the floor.

    Beyond a doubt, the 25th amendment option can work quicker, actually it is required to by the amendment itself.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    The general impression is that politically the US is floundering.
    Civilly many of the safeguards are and have been removed.
    Your military seem to be doing their job still.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    No, if he declares he is fit, the House has 21 days to say otherwise by 2/3rds vote.
    At which time he declares himself fit. And the cycle repeats. You really need to read the amendment and think about it.

    You seem to think that the House and Senate will not change their rules and hold a kangaroo court. (I have no problems with no prosecution witnesses and a 30 minute verbal statement from the president.)
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    TLT, that's not what it says; it's not written as an infinite loop. Here's the text, relevant section in bold.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

    Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.

    Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
    If there's a 2/3 majority vote of both houses of Congress, the President's out.

    I wouldn't bet on it unless Trump goes completely and obviously nuts, or has some serious medical problem, a stroke or something. Getting a 2/3 majority in both houses would be damn near impossible.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 08-19-2017 at 06:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Edging slowly toward a 25th Amendment solution.

    A Gridlocked Washington and rudderless leadership make for tricky projections. The wildcard is Trump and his narcissism. The 20 percent that support him can not be swayed. As long as he has them and Bannon on the outside, Trump can last till his entire term as long as the house of representives does not change significantly.

    Suppose Trump proposes something like universal single payer healthcare. We may see a few necks break.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

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