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Thread: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

  1. #1
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    Default Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    Greetings! First time on site.
    I have read over Renn Tolmans Alaskan skiff a number of times, and actually acquired a set of plans off craigslist a couple years ago. I am thinking on going with the 20 ft version, open with center console. Since then I have heard that before his passing, Renn was looking to incorporate the Simmons skiff design. That is something I would really like to do with that hull. I like the idea moderate speeds and sipping fuel. So I guess I have 2 questions? Is there a newer book available where he does that? Or 2) Has anybody incorporated the Simmons 35 degree Transom, motor well configuration with a Tolman? I suppose I could just get Simmon Skiff plans and build that, but I already have a set of drawings with templates (paid 200 bucks....not bad) if someone has made that change to the Tolman I sure would like to hear about it? I can't seem to find anything on line written by Renn, or a plan with that change for sale. Thanks Fella's hope this all makes sense???

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    Not sure if this will be of any help, but might be interesting
    https://www.google.com/search?q=tolm...w=1822&bih=909

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    Haven't heard anything about what you mention, but you could talk to his nephew, Colin Tolman, who works out if his old shop.

    https://www.facebook.com/tolmanskiff...fref=ts&__nodl

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    Thanks Fella's, Those are some fine looking boats Oldad. The Bartender was a plan I seriously thought on. I love the look of it, but it gives up a lot of room in the stern.
    I will try contacting his nephew. See what he says. Worst case scenario is I could buy the Simmons skiff plans and see if I can incorporate the aft design of the simmons with the tolman. Most would probably say just build the Simmons, but they are quite a bit smaller than the Tolman. Hopefully Renn's nephew will have something to share. I'll keep you posted, see what he say's.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    Get a ride in a Simmons, and get a ride in a Tolman, then decide which boat you prefer. Then think hard about modifying either. You can wind up with a extra work for little gain.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    If you want to use the entire deck area on the selected boat plan, this is an alternative method if you plan on using an outboard. Keep in mind that an outboard requires less transom angle. Now this is without a splash well. Now a splash well dos two things. It will allow you to save weight in your amount of wood for your transom. But it also catches water in a following sea of course. And depending on your ability to reengineer the back end of the boat, this may be a grey area when you are done. Of course over building is normally what takes place for anyone on their first rodeo of building their own boat. You can also do a full transom and a bracket, even a Euro style transom. Of course this also does require some previous experience in boat building. This is not either one of those hulls. But we use the intense angle for many of the old timey working hulls locally. But these have been turned into pleasure craft now for some people. As far as I am concerned, if I was going to build a non-Simmons, I would forgo the well, unless of course you plan on setting nets with it.



    WBF=DNC

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Get a ride in a Simmons, and get a ride in a Tolman, then decide which boat you prefer. Then think hard about modifying either. You can wind up with a extra work for little gain.
    or something worse than either.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    That's what I'm afraid of, and was hoping it had been drawn by an architect and successfully built. Not looking like that has happened though. I'm a retired cabinet maker and finish trim guy, but definitely not a marine architect. Don't want to spend all that time (and money) and end up with a bad boat.
    I really like what you did Erster with the transom on your boat. Looks like its 35 degrees on the transom and built out 11 or 12 for the outboard? I think for me personally I would be a little nervous not having a splash well, but maybe it's not necessary with the angle on the transom? Anyway, very cool boat!

    Getting back to the Tolman / Simmons thing. I will take you guys thoughts seriously (I think I am getting stuck on the tolman only because I found the plans with templates etc..) When i reevaluate my main priorities it was always lower power, fuel efficient, 15-20 knots. After owning some fiberglass production boats with huge motors, that's been the goal. That was my reason for wanting to build one in the first place. So I really think the Simmons is winning out. Thanks Fella's. There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors! JD

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    The question is what are you trying to achieve? And a self bailing deck can be used in lieu of a splashwell. But you loose freeboard as a result of the need to raise the floors though. than most runabouts and designs from the older days. . And there is a lot of variables as it relates to the well, which does not always keep water out when backing up or in following seas and going slow.
    WBF=DNC

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDee View Post
    . Since then I have heard that before his passing, Renn was looking to incorporate the Simmons skiff design
    Incorporating Simmons sounds like devolution since Tolman started out building dories with motor wells then advanced to semi-V's without motor wells. His book even eludes to the old days of building flat bottoms with motor wells for no better reason than that's what everyone was doing.

    My buddy owns one of those old Tolman dories with a motor well. It's good for setnet fishing but not much else.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    I know, I read his comments in the book also. The difference (from what I've read) with the Simmons over just a well is the tunnel effect that puts the hull on a plane quickly, and with less power. You won't reach speeds of 30 mph but you will have an efficient 15 knot boat. You can mount bigger motors but after around 20 knots it becomes uneasy to handle evidently. So lighter moderate power works best.

    I was positive I read some comments of Renn's before he passed, that that type of design would create a very efficient hull. I don't think he was to keen on his skiffs ending up with 150hp monsters mounted on the back. But... to each his own. I'm still going to try and contact his nephew, haven't yet, and see if he recalls what his uncles thoughts were if any.

    I like your latest boat! the clear mahogany looks awesome. Really nice work. JD

  12. #12
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    hood river oregon rgods4@msn.com
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    Not sure if the well of the SSS creates a "tunnel effect" for quicker planning....there's "hook" at the aft end of the SSS that's supposed to help the boat get up. Maybe there's a combination of the two..don't know. I do seem to feel that the "hook" in the SSS is increased as the boat becomes longer. Of the pics I've seen of the 18, I have to look hard to see it; in the SSS20, the hook, I feel shows easier; and with the 22 (my boat, for example), it's very obvious! I call it the 'swoop'. If you want to see my 22, I'm an easy drive away! [my hoped for launch date is this coming spring] I'm also thinking that Tolman might have been thinking of incorporating the lapstrake sides into his boat, but maybe that's just my way of saying 'if that happened, along with the 35 degree transom, and put it all in 26 feet length, I'd build the Tolman SS'. Man, that'd be something!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    JayDee, I think you are referring to the Tolman Seabright tunnel hull, not Simmons. For all things Tolman, go to fishyfish.com. Also take a look at this http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/a...seabright.html
    Good luck!

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    Found these. I'm pretty sure that Renn Tolman would have no use for a Simmons style well.








  15. #15
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    Default Re: Tolman skiff / Simmons skiff

    Yes, Renn Tolman designed and built that prototype Sea Bright skiff using the Tolman Standard topsides shape with a tunnel hull bottom. After sea trials, he scrapped the whole idea because he felt the tunnel caught too much air in the typical seas he navigated in Alaska. He felt the tunnel was more for protected waters. Then he began working on a Tolman Trawler, and he passed away before finishing the design. For best results, contact Colin. He has a facebook page for Tolman Skiffs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00TxAO9llMw

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