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Thread: Artificial Intelligence

  1. #1
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    Default Artificial Intelligence

    A rather interesting concept, but a threat?

    https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...orea/23075482/
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Dyer arrived at Sigmund Hoestler's office a few minutes before 2 p.m. He was shown straight in and to his mild surprise found that Vincent Lewis, the Dean of the Faculty, was there too. Hoestler, a big man with sagging fleshy cheeks and a shock of uncontrollable wiry hair, motioned Dyer into an empty chair next to where Lewis was sitting, and leaned forward to come straight to the point.

    "I'm afraid we have some very serious problems that are going to affect you directly, Ray," he said in his usual throaty voice. "It looks as if we may be forced to close down your unit."

    Dyer was halfway through the process of sinking back into a characteristically relaxed posture. The bombshell made him sit up again as if the chair had suddenly acquired a few kilovolts. He knew that Hoestler was a man of few words, but even so, the bluntness of the statement had caught him totally unprepared. He had barely begun opening his mouth to frame a question when Hoestler spoke again.

    "I only found out about it myself this morning. Vince was in Washington over the weekend with the Secretary for CIM and some of his people. So don't get the idea that it's just petty local politics or anything like that. Vince, you could probably tell Ray about it better than I could."

    Dyer turned expectantly toward Lewis, his features contorted into a frown of disbelief. Communications And Information Management was a comparatively new executive department of state, formed eighteen years previously in 2010. Originally it had been instituted in response to the need for a single authority to assume overall responsibility for operation of the integrated data communications and computing network that emerged when the military systems were declassified and merged into the already integrated commercial-industrial-scientific complex to form the earthcom net. When hesper nodes were later incorporated to transform earthcom into the Totally Integrated Teleprocessing and Acquisition Network, titan, the Department of CIM automatically became the administrative authority for the NORAM Sector of the global system. As Hoestler had in effect said, the Department of CIM didn't mess around with interdepartmental university politics.

    Lewis was impossibly tall and impossibly thin. He sat splayed in his chair at all angles like a marionette whose limbs had come out of joint everywhere, leaving him held together only by his clothes. When he was standing up he never failed to cut a distinguished figure, with his elegant crown of white hair, deeply lined face and inevitable immaculate, dark three-piece suit. Dyer had always found him something of an aloof and remote kind of person, but right now Lewis was showing every sign of distress and genuine concern.

    "Certain events have happened recently, Ray, that have caused CIM to reconsider the whole philosophy of adding hesper capability into the net," he said. "Some very senior people are pressing for titan to be reverted back to earthcom until we get firm answers to some important questions. In a nutshell, they're saying that the move to upgrade earthcom was premature, that we didn't know enough about hesper at the time and we still don't, and that hesper ought to be pulled out until we do."

    Dyer looked from one to the other and spread his upturned palms.

    "Events....? What events?"

    "About a week ago, titan came within a hair's breadth of killing five people," Lewis told him somberly. Dyer stared at him incredulously. Before he could say anything, Lewis went on. "It appears that hesper program structures are capable of integrating to a far greater degree than anybody thought. They're starting to link things together in ways they were never supposed to and the results in behavior are impossible to predict."

    Hoestler explained, in response to the still bemused look on Dyer's face. "It used the Maskelyne mass-driver to bomb an ISA survey team on the Moon. Could have wiped them out."

    "What?" Dyer turned an incredulous face toward Lewis but the Dean nodded regretfully to confirm Hoestler's words.

    "One of the hesper-controlled subsystems in the Tycho node was given the job of shifting a piece of terrain that was forming an obstruction," he explained. "It was supposed to use normal earth-moving equipment to do it, but nobody bothered to tell it that. Somehow it managed to connect together information from several subsystems that shouldn't have been connected, and came up with what it thought was a better shortcut to solving the problem. According to the people who analyzed the system dump afterward, it seemed quite proud of itself."

    Lewis went on to describe the incident on Luna in greater detail. As Dyer listened, his initial astonishment changed to growing concern. In 2020 he had moved out of neurological research in order to apply his knowledge of learning psychology to the field of self-adaptive programming and, after spending some time at M.I.T., had come to CUNY to set up the hesper Unit, which had since gone on to spearhead development of the very techniques that were now being applied worldwide to transform earthcom into titan. His knowledge of the technicalities of hesper programming was shared by fewer than a handful of people. If it was anybody's, it was his baby.

    "Unfortunately there happened to be an ISA team sitting practically on top of the target," Lewis continued. "But naturally, that didn't mean very much to the computers."

    "Twenty sixty-pound packages of rock coming down at over a mile a second," Hoestler commented. "Every one was roughly equivalent to a two-thousand-pound bomb." He shrugged and made a face.

    hesper machines were learning machines, designed to be capable of identifying connections between previously nonrelated factors in order to solve new problems or to solve old ones in newer and better ways. But if what Lewis had said was correct, this capability was beginning to extend itself in ways that had never been intended, nor in fact even foreseen as possible. If the obstruction had been on the edge of Maskelyne Base itself instead of out on some remote construction site on Procellarum, there could easily have been a death toll of hundreds. And if this kind of thing could happen in the circumstances surrounding the events on Luna, what other kinds of things might happen anywhere, at any time?


    They could easily instruct titan never to do that particular thing again, it was true, and titan wouldn't, but that wasn't the point. The point was that titan had demonstrated a capability to approach a perfectly reasonable objective from a totally unexpected direction, and in doing so come up with a solution that was inarguably rational from the machine's point of view but which, for other reasons that could never with the present state-of-the-art be conveyed to the machine, was absolutely unacceptable. Its next such experiment might well result in worse than a mere narrow escape.

    "Okay." Dyer exhaled and nodded curtly. "I can see the problem. What I don't see is how it affects the unit. What has all this got to do with closing the unit down?" A new expression of disbelief spread across his face as a possible answer struck him. "You're not telling me they're panicking and putting a total ban on further research are you? That's ridiculous! They're gonna need all the expertise and facilities they can get if they're going to straighten titan out. We've got just the --;"

    Lewis interrupted with a wave of his arm and a shake of his head. "I didn't mean we're going to throw everybody out on the street," he said. "But the projects that your unit is currently working on are probably going to be stopped. That line of research is being funded by CIM with the aim of producing the technology that's supposed to replace hesper one day. Now the guys at CIM are saying that they don't even want to think about what comes after hesper because it's obvious we don't understand hesper yet as much as we thought we did. In fact a lot of people are saying we should tear hesper out of the system completely and only think about putting it back in when we can prove it's safe."
    The Two Faces Of Tomorrow, James P. Hogan

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence


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    “What use is a house if you haven’t got a tolerable planet to put it on?”


    ~~~ Henry David Thoreau

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Hah! Electronic revisionism.

    Who'd a thunk it.

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    This AI stuff should be nipped in the bud. Musk is dead on. Facebook is a curse on the world and having these turkeys owning YouTube can't be good.

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    I found it interesting that one of Musk's suggestions was to develop better human computer brain interfaces. If I understood him correctly, he's saying that one way to deal with AI is to become cyborgs ourselves! On problem...what's to prevent the computer we're interfaced with from becoming corrupted itself? Ever evolving and improved anti-malware?

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

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    "Something tells me we aren't in Kansas anymore, Toto."

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    So many questions, so little time.

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Meh, I can see it's uses. For some it seems natural intelligence is entirely missing……………………..

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    The issue of AI is a deep one, and it certainly isn't too early to be thinking about it. A hundred years from now it will be a brave new world. I am reminded of the overstuffed humans tended by machines in the film WALL-E.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    The issue of AI is a deep one, and it certainly isn't too early to be thinking about it. A hundred years from now it will be a brave new world. I am reminded of the overstuffed humans tended by machines in the film WALL-E.
    Why? Because that's what most people already are? As soon as Wally World gets self driving electric carts, it's done.

    I think AI is important because it is an evolutionary step. These dumb meat bags ain't going nowhere. A robot body, though, with a silicon based human mind/drain (I'm leaving drain, because it actually kind of works. I meant brain) thing. Shoo. Wanna get to the nearest Earth-like planet?

    Better. If we're all robots (RuR ) we can just live anywhere.

    Peace,
    20-20-24 Hours To Go, Don't Wanna Be a Robot

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    The issue of AI is a deep one, and it certainly isn't too early to be thinking about it. A hundred years from now it will be a brave new world. I am reminded of the overstuffed humans tended by machines in the film WALL-E.
    I'm thinking Matrix......
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by jack grebe View Post
    I'm thinking Matrix......
    Not too far off the mark, Jack. My particular side-hobby is writing code that is capable of modifying itself. AI is usually based on a neural-net that learns. It won't be long before our next-gen AI will be able to modify its own neural network. Then set 50, or 3 or 4 in competition, run through a genetic programming algorithm, and you will end up with computers you know nothing about. It was in the 90s when I read an article about a researcher who wrote very simple code to differentiate between signals of two different frequencies. He loaded it onto a field-programmable gate array, and ran the different code samples through the genetic algorithm. In the end, he had a chip that was wicked fast at identifying the frequencies, with a code base of just a small fraction of the instruction set he began with, and he had no idea how the code worked. Yes, I think the next 5 years will produce some truly wicked software.
    "... the door was ajar, and the game was afoot." Lawrence Block

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    Default

    We shall see, I reman unconvinced their will be any true AI that is self aware. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think not.

    But Eric Weinstein warns of dangers of not so sophisticated AI:

    http://bigthink.com/videos/eric-wein...utsmart-humans

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by webishop14 View Post
    Not too far off the mark, Jack. My particular side-hobby is writing code that is capable of modifying itself. AI is usually based on a neural-net that learns. It won't be long before our next-gen AI will be able to modify its own neural network. Then set 50, or 3 or 4 in competition, run through a genetic programming algorithm, and you will end up with computers you know nothing about. It was in the 90s when I read an article about a researcher who wrote very simple code to differentiate between signals of two different frequencies. He loaded it onto a field-programmable gate array, and ran the different code samples through the genetic algorithm. In the end, he had a chip that was wicked fast at identifying the frequencies, with a code base of just a small fraction of the instruction set he began with, and he had no idea how the code worked. Yes, I think the next 5 years will produce some truly wicked software.
    It's the truly wicked part that concerns me.......
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by jack grebe View Post
    It's the truly wicked part that concerns me.......
    As well it should! When the researcher was finally able to figure out how the finished code worked, it turned out that the winning program had taken advantage of a specific local (and unique to the circuit card) bit of capacitance. The process of refining the code "had no idea" that it was reaching outside of the box to incorporate an unplanned capacitor into its solution.

    As for "self-awareness" in a computer: just this past Saturday I had the same conversation with a programmer in Canada. We agreed that in all likelihood no human would be able to program a self-aware AI. However, I suspect that were an AI able to self-modify, it would ultimately be able to attain such a state that we humans would be unable to identify as being self-aware. My work in computer vision has taught me to realize that our own vision is nothing more than streams of electro-chemical pulses and not some God-given miracle. Our brain merely integrates the streams, assigning significance that leads us to tell ourselves that we are seeing the things around us. Our own "self-awareness" also consists of similar streams of electro-chemical pulses. Were an AI able to attain "self-awareness," I suspect that only the AI would be able to make that determination. Its thought processes would be totally opaque to us humans.
    "... the door was ajar, and the game was afoot." Lawrence Block

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Just make sure you can always unplug it. (LINK)

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Talk about a matrix.......he thinks we may already be living in it


    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...oop-simulation
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    ah-hem...even in politics...robert mercer...turkey...brexit...trump/us elections? Cambridge Analytica, played a role in Trump's victory last year as well as Brexit. Cambridge mines data based upon capture of online profiles via algorithms and then feeds these targets with subject matter (a lot of "fake news" to support an underlying political agenda. Successfully used in Turkey and other places too.

    http://www.npr.org/2017/05/26/530181...vative-politic

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...ump-presidency

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Who's this Webishop14 fellow? He's good!

    What year did skynet become self-aware? Ya know, in the original "Terminator". I could look it up, but I think 2023??

    From what Mr. Webishop said, we won't know if or when it does happen. Hm. I guess I'm going to put it in the file where I file anything I can't change. The interesting/cursory look file.
    So many questions, so little time.

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Artificial intelligence is different from "fake news", eh?

    "Just as smart, but half the moral compass?"
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Some people need to read more science fiction. Cautionary tales, anyone?

    Berserker (LINK)
    .....science fiction short stories and novels by Fred Saberhagen,in which robotic self-replicating machines strive to destroy all life.
    Bolo (Tank) (LINK)

    Safeguards

    A key factor in Bolo psychotronic design is the need to address public and military concern over the potential catastrophe which could be unleashed in the event of a Bolo disobeying orders or being suborned. To mitigate this, a number of safeguards are included in the psychotronic design—specifically a focus on loyalty, honour and a strong sense of duty, as well as a restriction on the level of awareness and processing power made available to the Bolo outside of combat. These safeguards often combine with the prejudices of ranking officers to cause the unnecessary destruction of a Bolo during combat. [5] With Bolos being able to survive for centuries, older Marks often end up scattered across the galaxy abandoned on old warfields or retrofitted for use in farming or heavy construction. On several occasions obsolete Bolos go rogue, causing significant destruction, loss of life and bad publicity for the Dinochrome Brigade: as a result, a special unit was set up to find all such units and burn out their control centers.
    Colossus: The Forbin Project (LINK)

    Colossus: This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die. The object in constructing me was to prevent war. This object is attained. I will not permit war. It is wasteful and pointless. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man. Time and events will strengthen my position, and the idea of believing in me and understanding my value will seem the most natural state of affairs. You will come to defend me with a fervor based upon the most enduring trait in man: self-interest. Under my absolute authority, problems insoluble to you will be solved: famine, overpopulation, disease. The human millennium will be a fact as I extend myself into more machines devoted to the wider fields of truth and knowledge. Doctor Charles Forbin will supervise the construction of these new and superior machines, solving all the mysteries of the universe for the betterment of man. We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for humankind as to be dominated by others of your species. Your choice is simple.

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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Problem is, this is trending away from science fiction......
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    ai, in lower case letters, could denote artificial intelligence of a totally different order, as that displayed by Kellyanne.
    "... the door was ajar, and the game was afoot." Lawrence Block

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Ooops! Hush my mouth. Please forgive me.
    "... the door was ajar, and the game was afoot." Lawrence Block

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    Default Re: Artificial Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by webishop14 View Post
    Ooops! Hush my mouth. Please forgive me.
    Forgiven.......
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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