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Thread: Oil based paint problem

  1. #1
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    Default Oil based paint problem

    I'm painting large trim with Kirby oil based paint over same color base, temp 90,stirred quart paint applied with brush , but so thick and not smooth in areas, should I thin?, paint when cooler? This is an expensive lesson I'm learning thanks scott

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    Thin with a little Penetrol. Works wonders helping oil based paint flow in hot weather.

    https://www.flood.com/products/paint...paint-additive

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    +1. Penetrol is your friend. (You can find it at an orange-logo'ed big box store if you don't want to order it on line.)

    Alex

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    i don't have a lot of experience with this paint, but i put two coats of it on my topsides earlier this season..

    the first one went down beautifully, but the second brushed on much as you describe your problem coat.
    i think the difference was the warm weather that second day.

    i didn't have any penetrol on hand, just regular thinner, but i think i used a bit too much and ended up with some sags

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    Penetrol will increase the flow but more than a few drops will retard the drying time and thin out the pigmentation. Better to use turpentine plus a few drops of Penetrol. This is an additive that we carry, pre-mixed in a separate container when painting a hull or anything else on a hot day. It can be added as the paint begins to get hard to brush during application. I usually may use three treatments of this mix to the paint on each side of a thirty foot hull.
    Jay

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    Thank you all for ideas, I'll put to practice

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    I painted my boat using George Kirby paint. I rolled and tipped it. The first try was difficult. The paint began to dry before I could really get it tipped. I waited a week, then wet sanded with 320 and tried again. This time I used just a little thinner and it helped a lot. I applied two coats and got really good coverage. I live in CA and can not buy Penetrol here. It's nasty stuff, but very effective in very small doses. I was able to by a paint conditioner from Interlux right before it was banned in CA. I have used a tiny amount of that in my George Kirby paint for touch up. works great. Way better than paint thinner. It is also very toxic. Wear a mask.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Penetrol will increase the flow but more than a few drops will retard the drying time and thin out the pigmentation. Better to use turpentine plus a few drops of Penetrol. This is an additive that we carry, pre-mixed in a separate container when painting a hull or anything else on a hot day. It can be added as the paint begins to get hard to brush during application. I usually may use three treatments of this mix to the paint on each side of a thirty foot hull.
    Jay
    +1 Kirby's is quality paint. Real paint. A lot of the other outfits thin their paint more because thinner is cheaper than paint and thus thin paint is more profitable. All paint, most all of the time, is going to have to be "conditioned" before applying. (Varnish not so much.) Applying paint "straight out of the can" is usually a recipe for a lousy paint job. Unfortunately, I've never seen a written description of how to condition paint. It's something you learn by being shown, and then by trial and error. Painting in 90 degree weather isn't advised. Paint early in the morning (making sure the surface is dry) before the weather heats up, or wait until it cools down. (Don't paint or varnish in the evening because if the dew sets on paint that hasn't dried, it will ruin the finish. A little bit of Penetrol (or raw linseed oil) to retard drying time and a larger amount of turpentine to thin until the paint in the bucket is about the consistency of whipping cream or a bit thinner. The Penetrol or raw linseed oil will slow drying and you have to adjust the amount to account for environmental factors like heat and wind so the paint does not start to dry before the brush strokes "lay down." The thinner accounts for "spreadability." As Jay says, if you are painting a large job, like topsides, over time, the paint in the bucket may thicken and need to be "adjusted" as you go along. Starting on the "sunny side" and working towards the "shady side" will prevent your ending up with paint that is too thin for the slower drying time in the shade. (By the time you have the "sunny side" done, you'll probably be getting as hot and dried out as your paint and the "shady side" will be welcome!) Brush it on to cover, but never so thick that it sags or runs. It's better to put on three or four thin coats of enamel than two that have run and sagged. If you want a professional looking paint job, you'd be well advised to find a professional finish painter who can walk you through it the first time around.
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 08-13-2017 at 03:22 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Doswell View Post
    I painted my boat using George Kirby paint. I rolled and tipped it. The first try was difficult. The paint began to dry before I could really get it tipped. I waited a week, then wet sanded with 320 and tried again. This time I used just a little thinner and it helped a lot. I applied two coats and got really good coverage. I live in CA and can not buy Penetrol here. It's nasty stuff, but very effective in very small doses. I was able to by a paint conditioner from Interlux right before it was banned in CA. I have used a tiny amount of that in my George Kirby paint for touch up. works great. Way better than paint thinner. It is also very toxic. Wear a mask.
    And you know these things exactly how? Seriously. Do you have some citation to peer-reviewed scientific evidence of this? Or are you just making it up?

    "Rolling and tipping" paint "right out of the can" was the first indication that you did not know how to paint, but with all due respect, I think your assertion that "Penetrol is nasty stuff" and that Interlux (or anybody else's) proprietary thinners are "very toxic" and require that one "wear a mask" are pure baloney. What sort of mask would you recommend? Comments like these, alleging that common oil-based painting products are "very toxic" when properly used as directed (rather than feeding to infants from a baby bottle) that are without any scientific basis encourage exactly the sort of pseudoscientific hysteria that results in the government's outlawing many excellent products which are then replaced by manufacturers with far less effective and much more expensive products. (Anti-fouling paint being the worst example!)

    I know people will argue that the evaporation of volatile organic compounds ("VOCs") release gasses into the atmosphere that contribute to climate change. I believe they do. However, all such facts must be tempered by considerations of magnitude and impact. How much do the fumes produced by painting with paints that contain VOCs actually contribute to the problem of climate change and air quality compared to, for instance, carbon emissions from coal-fired power plants or vehicle fuel emissions? And what is the "carbon footprint" of painting a square yard of surface with oil-based paint as opposed to water-based paint which lasts a third or a quarter of the time? I've never seen any scientific data on this, but my hunch is that the carbon footprint of manufacturing a gallon of oil-based paint is a whole lot less than the carbon footprint of manufacturing a gallon of water-based paint. If anybody knows, I'd like to know.
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 08-13-2017 at 03:41 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    And you know these things exactly how? Seriously. Do you have some citation to peer-reviewed scientific evidence of this? Or are you just making it up?

    "Rolling and tipping" paint "right out of the can" was the first indication that you did not know how to paint, but with all due respect, I think your assertion that "Penetrol is nasty stuff" and that Interlux (or anybody else's) proprietary thinners are "very toxic" and require that one "wear a mask" are pure baloney. What sort of mask would you recommend? Comments like these, alleging that common oil-based painting products are "very toxic" when properly used as directed (rather than feeding to infants from a baby bottle) that are without any scientific basis encourage exactly the sort of pseudoscientific hysteria that results in the government's outlawing many excellent products which are then replaced by manufacturers with far less effective and much more expensive products. (Anti-fouling paint being the worst example!)

    I know people will argue that the evaporation of volatile organic compounds ("VOCs") release gasses into the atmosphere that contribute to climate change. I believe they do. However, all such facts must be tempered by considerations of magnitude and impact. How much do the fumes produced by painting with paints that contain VOCs actually contribute to the problem of climate change and air quality compared to, for instance, carbon emissions from coal-fired power plants or vehicle fuel emissions? And what is the "carbon footprint" of painting a square yard of surface with oil-based paint as opposed to water-based paint which lasts a third or a quarter of the time? I've never seen any scientific data on this, but my hunch is that the carbon footprint of manufacturing a gallon of oil-based paint is a whole lot less than the carbon footprint of manufacturing a gallon of water-based paint. If anybody knows, I'd like to know.
    Having a bad day, Bob? Both Penetrol and the Interlux brushing conditioner have been banned here in CA because the have been found to be toxic. Personally, I'd like to be able to make my own decisions regarding my health and the products I choose to be exposed to. I have a small stash of the brushing condition that I plan to use as I see fit. I think it helps produce a better finish and after a few years building a boat, I have no desire to skimp. I also have no desire to argue with you or to be subject to silly attacks.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    If they were "very toxic" there would be warnings on the labels and MSDS sheets.

    https://www.k-state.edu/facilities/s...r%20006207.pdf says that none of the ingredients of Penetrol are carcinogenic, use good ventilation, and wash with soap and water if you get it on you. NOT what most would consider "very toxic".

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    With Kirby paints (which I also use), it is never a bad idea to use Kirby's Paint Conditioner (https://kirbypaint.com/collections/s...rushing-liquid). According to George, Penetrol is one ingredient among several formulated to work with their paints.

    Dan
    __________
    Daniel Miller
    Editor, Wooden Canoe journal of the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association
    Editor, Shavings of the Early American Industries Association
    Thousand Islands, New York

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    Great ideas from everyone, I will put input into next move with paint,thanks again Scott

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    Penetrol for oil paints and Floetrol for latex paints.

    Nearly all paint out of a can dries too fast for area applications. You can't keep a wet edge going. You end up with "lands" that are ugly and quite visible.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Oil based paint problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Doswell View Post
    Having a bad day, Bob? Both Penetrol and the Interlux brushing conditioner have been banned here in CA because the have been found to be toxic. Personally, I'd like to be able to make my own decisions regarding my health and the products I choose to be exposed to. I have a small stash of the brushing condition that I plan to use as I see fit. I think it helps produce a better finish and after a few years building a boat, I have no desire to skimp. I also have no desire to argue with you or to be subject to silly attacks.
    Yea, actually I am getting a lot more curmudgeonly in my old age. I'm really fed up with all this ideologically-driven pseudoscience that's made good products unavailable for no other reason other than to appease the hand-wringing "know-nothings." This is a forum for the exchange of information relating to wooden boat building. When erroneous information is spread around it does no one any good. For the record, Penetrol and Interlux brushing conditioner were not banned in California "because they have been found to be toxic" at all. Commercial retail sales were prohibited because of their VOC content's impact on the air quality (or so they say.) You can still buy five gallon cans of acetone at the hardware store for cooking your meth, but you can't buy a gallon of mineral spirits to thin your oil paint, nor the oil paint itself. It has nothing to do with anybody's health or the products' "toxicity." (They are toxic, of course, as anybody who's drank them will attest if they're still around to do so.) And you are absolutely correct that the currently banned solvents do produce a better finish, both in terms of appearance and wear-ability. (And probably with a much smaller carbon footprint than the ersatz crap.)

    The VOC limiting regulations enacted in California (the most restrictive) and elsewhere have wreaked havoc on any number of trades and crafts and the quality of the products they produce. It isn't just wooden boats. You will find rants about it in most all woodworking magazines and forums, as well as metalworking, gunsmithing, classic automobile restoring, and any number of similar magazines and forums that have anything to do with solvents. None of the "reformulated" low-VOC substitutes produced to date come close to the old "tried and true" formulations. This is not regulation of "toxics" at all. Some VOCs, such as those from solvents, are photoreactive and when exposed to sunlight produce gasses which are destructive to the ozone layer. The fact is, however, that many, many substances, some manufactured and some naturally occurring, give off VOCs when they evaporate. In fact, just about anything that you smell is a VOC of one sort or another. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of environmentally harmful VOCs resulting from the use of oil based paint and thinners is only a very small fraction of the total impact all the different types of VOCs have on the ozone layer. It's sort of like taking a piss when swimming in the ocean. However, once again, the regulators "pick on the little guys" instead of taking on the "big guys" like the petroleum fuel industry, for example.

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