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Thread: How to deal with North Korea

  1. #1
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    Default How to deal with North Korea

    An utterly cogent and in depth analysis of the four options available:


    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-earth/528717/


    PS: By the author of Hue' 1968.
    Last edited by Gerarddm; 08-08-2017 at 05:49 PM.
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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    I'd bring the troops home, let South Korea and Japan figure it out. Why the **** are we protecting Samsung and Hyundai? Dumbest **** ever.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    The short version: do nothing. Everything else is far worse.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    And a tangential follow up as to why our current president is not the guy you want in charge:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ucible/536256/
    Last edited by Gerarddm; 08-08-2017 at 07:07 PM. Reason: typos, aaargh
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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    The short version: do nothing. Everything else is far worse.
    But "do nothing" could be the permission NK needs to finish developing it's nukes and then holding the west at bay while it invades and occupies SK. In all scenarios, sh17 tons of people die.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    I'd bring the troops home, let South Korea and Japan figure it out. Why the **** are we protecting Samsung and Hyundai? Dumbest **** ever.
    Because we build them in West Point and Montgomery? Kia and Hyundai that is.

    I agree with pulling all US personal out, selling the Koreans and Japanese defensive capability and telling the north if you attack us, or an ally it's your @$$.
    Can't see a preemptive strike as it stands now.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 08-08-2017 at 06:37 PM.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    I'd bring the troops home, let South Korea and Japan figure it out. Why the **** are we protecting Samsung and Hyundai? Dumbest **** ever.
    I can forgive ignorance but not the pride of being ignorant.
    Tom L

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Trump has tweeted threats of "fire and fury" towards Kim, who has responded with threats of a pre-emptive strike.

    Sweet Jesus. Wtf were American voters thinking?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Because we build them in West Point and Montgomery? Kia and Hyundai that is.

    I agree with pulling all US personal out, selling the Koreans and Japanese defensive capability and telling the north if you attack us, or an ally it's your @$$.
    Can't see a preemptive strike as it stands now.
    These MAY be a plausible strategies but time for them may also be past.
    Tom L

  10. #10

    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    I don't think Trump will go down the road of acceptance, I'm thinking he may use our tweeted technology and attempt to prevent launches with aircraft or missles, it's not going to work. I also agree it's time to bring our troops home from the region.

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    I also agree it's time to bring our troops home from the region.
    i mean ****, we've only been there sixty seven years. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Pulling out our troops is a horrbly bad idea. You guys can call Trump dumb all day long, he is not as dumb as you folks.

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    So peb, as a conservative, what is it you that you like about the idea of us paying for the defense of a country that is a ruthless economic competitor of ours? A country that has a well developed and sustainable free market economy and democracy of their own? When should they be responsible for themselves? If you could couch your reply in terms of your own conservative political values that would be great. Thanks in advance.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  14. #14

    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Pulling out our troops is a horrbly bad idea. You guys can call Trump dumb all day long, he is not as dumb as you folks.

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    Please enlighten me on why my tax dollars are paying for the defense of South Korea an economic super power, or Japan another economic super power.

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Trump has tweeted threats of "fire and fury" towards Kim, who has responded with threats of a pre-emptive strike.

    Sweet Jesus. Wtf were American voters thinking?
    Pre-emptive strike with what?

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Trump has tweeted threats of "fire and fury" towards Kim, who has responded with threats of a pre-emptive strike.

    Sweet Jesus. Wtf were American voters thinking?
    they didn't want hilly?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    Please enlighten me on why my tax dollars are paying for the defense of South Korea an economic super power, or Japan another economic super power.
    Because we don't want a world where every nation is armed to the teeth and standing in opposition to their next door neighbors. We had that, it resulted in two world wars.
    Yes, we are a superpower, and the world and us are better off because if it.

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    I said it before and after the election, there is not that much difference between Trump populism and Sanders populism. This send the immigration thread is convincing me I was right.

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  19. #19

    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Because we don't want a world where every nation is armed to the teeth and standing in opposition to their next door neighbors. We had that, it resulted in two world wars.
    Yes, we are a superpower, and the world and us are better off because if it.

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    Ah so world peace is part of my tax liability, and two countries armed to the teeth are just what I got for those tax dollars, so I'm thinking your strategy back fired, 60 years of occupation got us here.

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Trump campaigned on the "paleo" view, that is, technologizing Japan and South Korea, and phasing a withdrawal. peb posits the counter-argument, that is, the "neocon," internationalist view.

    Neither is particularly satisfactory for obvious reasons, but Trumpism has at least made the discussion possible. With the Generals though, now, much of that may not matter.

    Disfunctionally and shortsightedly, Congress has voted to sanction Russia precisely at a time where close cooperation with that government on the DPRK question might be most beneficial.

    As comforting as the paleo view is, there's probably not enough time. Some governments simply must not be allowed to acquire functional offensive nuclear weapons. The DPRK is one of them.

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Peacefully!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Trump soo wants to mash the button.......
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Kim wants what France has - a "force du frappe." Deterrent capacity, so that they will be left alone. You can understand it just as you can understand France, which was a battlefield of unimaginable ferocity twice in the 20th century alone, and didn't care to reprise the role.

    NK is not France by a long shot, but the principle holds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    Ah so world peace is part of my tax liability, and two countries armed to the teeth are just what I got for those tax dollars, so I'm thinking your strategy back fired, 60 years of occupation got us here.
    Yes, world peace, to the extend it can be achieved is part of your tax lability. It hasn't backfired yet, South Korea is still free. They wouldn't have survived past 1960 without our limited "occupation".

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Kim wants what France has - a "force du frappe." Deterrent capacity, so that they will be left alone. You can understand it just as you can understand France, which was a battlefield of unimaginable ferocity twice in the 20th century alone, and didn't care to reprise the role.

    NK is not France by a long shot, but the principle holds.
    Give that man a cigar.

    What's also apparent though, is that the world's #1 arms dealer has benefited hugely, in economic terms, through the ongoing situation. Americans no longer pay exorbitant prices for a Motorola tv... and in return, they get to sell F35s for hundreds of millions each. Win win, eh?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    I'd bring the troops home, let South Korea and Japan figure it out. Why the **** are we protecting Samsung and Hyundai? Dumbest **** ever.
    America First??????
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    I have no idea what the right option is. Maybe no option works out well, including doing nothing.

    I wonder if NK believes it could win a war with the USA.

    Maybe something simple, such as convincing little Kim HE cannot survive such a war.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    NK does not believe they could win a nuke exchange, but hopes that their capacity to cause horrible death will deter aggression against them. Even aggression they prompt.

    What price is Trump willing to pay - or have others pay - for Kim to not be a threat? How many cities erased?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Pulling out our troops is a horrbly bad idea. You guys can call Trump dumb all day long, he is not as dumb as you folks.

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    I really don't give a rats @$$ about South Korea. It's not worth one American life. Or our tax $$.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    I really don't give a rats @$$ about South Korea. It's not worth one American life. Or our tax $$.
    But how else are you going to park your troops on Beijing's doorstep?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    NK does not believe they could win a nuke exchange, but hopes that their capacity to cause horrible death will deter aggression against them. Even aggression they prompt.

    What price is Trump willing to pay - or have others pay - for Kim to not be a threat? How many cities erased?
    The price will have to be paid sometime, better sooner than later.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Korea is threatening nuclear response on the American mainland if they detect any sign of an American military option seeking to decapitate the regime. Preemptive retaliation.

    This is not settling down; Kim's words here are a direct response to Trump's fire and fury rhetoric.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Because we don't want a world where every nation is armed to the teeth and standing in opposition to their next door neighbors. We had that, it resulted in two world wars.
    Yes, we are a superpower, and the world and us are better off because if it.

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk
    oh silly me

    i can easily see where us being involved has prevented an arms race between the two koreas

    i would humbly suggest a better model for preventing arms races would be coalition formation and utilizing treaty organizations such as the un and NATO. . .
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 08-08-2017 at 10:36 PM.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    "...In short, North Korea is a problem with no solution … except time.

    True, time works in favor of Kim getting what he wants. Every test, successful or not, brings him closer to building his prized weapons. When he has nuclear ICBMs, North Korea will have a more potent and lethal strike capability against the United States and its allies, but no chance of destroying America, or winning a war, and therefore no better chance of avoiding the inevitable consequence of launching a nuke: national suicide. Kim may end up trapped in the circular logic of his strategy. He seeks to avoid destruction by building a weapon that, if used, assures his destruction..."

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    Default Re: How to deal with North Korea

    I've wondered why is North Korea such a kooky country , then i found that in the early 1950's the USA had a policy of annihilation against North Korea , civilians included ... pretty sure that is called genocide . http://www.internationalist.org/nort...ended1012.html

    Max Hastings wrote a book " The Korean War " looks worth checking out https://www.amazon.com/Korean-War-Ma...B57YXR25BKBJK9


    I've been meaning to take a trip to South America ....

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