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Thread: The MGTD thread

  1. #36
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    What is this? (Jaguar?) And why would a six cylinder DOHC engine only have two SUs?
    Maybe it is the small 2.4 liter version? (Mark 1, Mark 2) I have never seen one of these, the image was nicked from the internet with a UK address.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Again, I know I've posted this before, but in my defense Photobucket took it out, and besides, this is an MG thread, right?


  3. #38
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    I'm in the midst of a rebuild of my '52. Had it mostly done, then she went under with Super PITA Sandy. Salt water was not nice to her, and we had other things to contend with. Bought the car in '62. Back and forth (or is it forth and back, Ian??) to Texas a few times....not without incidence.
    \"Of all the things I\'ve lost, I miss my mind the most.\"

  4. #39
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    The ZA was pretty good too, a police car in the UK I think, TF mechanicals.

    Aah, nostalgia isn't what it used to be. My father bought a ZA in 1956, my memory of it was the smell of the wood and leather interior. It was just before the Suez Crisis, petrol rationing and price hikes so it was back to Morris Minors for the next few years. You can see the fold out turn indicator between the doors which the 4 door Minors also had. We then got a 2 door Minor where the turn indicator was much lower so on a couple of occasions it was snapped off on the gate post.
    They were used as Police cars, intermediate between the Morris Minors and the Wolseley 6/90. The Wolseley was often used in car chase scenes in films of the time.
    My uncle had a type Y saloon and a female spinster relative drove a beat up TC.
    A colleague at work in the early 70s had an MGA but had to get rid of it as it was using almost as much oil as petrol.
    In the 80s I tried to assemble a kit car, the Gentry, which resembled the TF. I bought ZA wheels and radiator grille for it. I sold it on part built.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    That reminds me of ZCars !
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 08-09-2017 at 04:55 AM.
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  6. #41
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    I got a brief look at a TD today when a friend brought one by my workplace. I'll be getting a longer, closer look this coming Sunday when we meet up again at a local car show.

    Jeff C

  7. #42
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread



    Jeff C

  8. #43
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Coincidentally I saw a TD yesterday. MGTD inspired, they are close but not too close.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD2000

  9. #44
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  10. #45
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Putting a reliable engine in a TD is like putting.... oh, never mind.
    I came across one with a Standard Vanguard engine once.


    Did not steer very well at all.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Y'know, the thing that strikes me about this thread in an age when the same Toyota Corolla is sold from Aberdeen to Zimbabwe, is how different British cars were from the contemporary American equivalent, (particularity the Wolsey and ZA; the TC was a sports car after all) Yeah, I know why, gas prices, rationing, postwar austerity, medieval roads, all that, but it's still striking. US cars of the period were very different.






    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  12. #47
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    A 2 litre 4 cylinder lump IIRC. A good engine, but heavy.
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  13. #48
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Y'know, the thing that strikes me about this thread in an age when the same Toyota Corolla is sold from Aberdeen to Zimbabwe, is how different British cars were from the contemporary American equivalent, (particularity the Wolsey and ZA; the TC was a sports car after all) Yeah, I know why, gas prices, rationing, postwar austerity, medieval roads, all that, but it's still striking. US cars of the period were very different.





    For me the main difference was handling, US cars all seemed to wallow on very soft suspension while British machines cornered well.... generally. My uncle had a Chev Bel Air , about a 1963 model and I would nearly get seasick travelling in it.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  14. #49
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    It was all of a piece - enormous cars, acres of sheet metal, vast quantities of chrome, baroque styling, 7.5-liter engines, suspensions designed for maximum comfort on I-90 across South Dakota where you can lash the steering wheel to the door handle and take a nap for an hour before encountering a curve . . . Quite the time.

    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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  15. #50
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Y'know, the thing that strikes me about this thread in an age when the same Toyota Corolla is sold from Aberdeen to Zimbabwe, is how different British cars were from the contemporary American equivalent, (particularity the Wolsey and ZA; the TC was a sports car after all) Yeah, I know why, gas prices, rationing, postwar austerity, medieval roads, all that, but it's still striking. US cars of the period were very different.





    A point I was trying to make with my comparison between the MGTD and a Ford Model A. Other than the hydraulic brakes on the TD, the two cars have remarkably similar engineering...and I'm not sure the MG would out brake a well maintained Model A by that much in real world driving, as the 4 wheel mechanical brakes on the Model A stop the car very well.

    Jeff C

  16. #51
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Maintaining the brakes on a Model A is an ongoing chore.

  17. #52
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    When I had my Austin Healy and my friend had an MGA (pictured above) in the early '60s, there was a definite bias, sometimes hostile, against "those little foreign cars". I actually had one gas station refuse to sell me gas.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    A point I was trying to make with my comparison between the MGTD and a Ford Model A. Other than the hydraulic brakes on the TD, the two cars have remarkably similar engineering...and I'm not sure the MG would out brake a well maintained Model A by that much in real world driving, as the 4 wheel mechanical brakes on the Model A stop the car very well.

    Jeff C
    Living in the mountains and having owned and rebuilt several Model A's I can tell you that in my experience, No they do not stop "very well"! They are indeed reliable in that they don't leak, and they can slow down enthusiastically. They can be improved using modern non-fading (Kevlar) materials but those single leading mechanical brakes were about 10 years behind the times when they were new! At least the TD had self energizing brakes on the front, a far more powerful system.
    Note; that the TD brakes can also be improved with modern materials. (I am only talking about brake fade as the TD as original can readily lock up the wheels)

  19. #54
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    The point to the "T" series cars is that they were anachronisms when new. Designed in 1936, the postwar cars were throwbacks, more akin to the American hot-rodded roadsters than anything else. The sport was in driving a bare-bones minimalist machine, not really intended to get anywhere fast or reliably. Could argue Jaguar changed all that with some serious performance machines.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    #15: I love the shape of the classic TR4A, but they are so bloody narrow.
    Gerard>
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  21. #56
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    They really are fun to drive... As is any roadster including the model A!
    Mechanically noisy, with no windows, no heater, a clunky transmision and the wind in your hair. It is about as close as you can come to the danger and excitement of riding a motorcycle while remaining in an inherently stable state.
    (They are an exercise in both restraint and stamina!)

  22. #57
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    They really are fun to drive... As is any roadster including the model A!
    Mechanically noisy, with no windows, no heater, a clunky transmision and the wind in your hair. It is about as close as you can come to the danger and excitement of riding a motorcycle while remaining in an inherently stable state.
    (They are an exercise in both restraint and stamina!)
    Precisely why I called my TC a '5 day a year car'.

    Oh yes, water would splash up under your feet when I drove through a puddle.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Regarding safety. An unprotected gas tank behind your head with no functional bumper is not recommended in a rear-end collision.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    A point I was trying to make with my comparison between the MGTD and a Ford Model A. Other than the hydraulic brakes on the TD, the two cars have remarkably similar engineering...and I'm not sure the MG would out brake a well maintained Model A by that much in real world driving, as the 4 wheel mechanical brakes on the Model A stop the car very well.

    Jeff C
    A TD can take a Ford Custom line in a street race , I ran the test once and they couldn't catch me.
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  25. #60
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread




    Jeff C

  26. #61
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Reminds me that the TD couldn't reach the speed limit on today's highways. Then again, neither could the Beetle.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Then again, neither could the Beetle.
    Later ones could with no trouble. I had a '71 Super Beetle with 60 HP, the most before emissions controls reduced it. You certainly wouldn't call it fast, but could hit 90 mph without much strain.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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  28. #63
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Later ones could with no trouble. I had a '71 Super Beetle with 60 HP, the most before emissions controls reduced it. You certainly wouldn't call it fast, but could hit 90 mph without much strain.
    Why do you think it was called "super"? The Beetle was launched with 25 hp. There was a famous test of the early Microbus in Road and Track. The performance table that listed track times included a 0-60mph time. The note in the table said: "It doesn't go 60 mph." Actually, when the early expressways were opened with a 70 mph speed limit, a number of cars couldn't manage it. Driving an early Beetle, you had to keep your eye in the rear-view mirror lest a TD barreled up from behind.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Reminds me that the TD couldn't reach the speed limit on today's highways. Then again, neither could the Beetle.
    The TD was rpm limited by the silly British horsepower tax. (That and a ridiculous rear axle ratio of 5.1:1) The calculated "tax" penalized the bore dimension and favored a long stroke. Plenty of torque but very hard on the lower end bearings at high speeds. With the long straight highways in the US, they were a mismatch, as were Jaguars and other early British marques. Here, it was not uncommon to see those engines needing bearings at 20-30k miles.
    Perfect if you just bopped around town or a drive in the country. But freeways? Just say no!

    edit; We had a nickname for the 36 hp Bettles... "Roadblock"!

  30. #65
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Why do you think it was called "super"?
    Different front suspension, actually; it handled better and had more room in the trunk. But you're quite right that the early ones were godawful slow, and the early microbus could be passed by a reasonably lively glacier.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  31. #66
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    The TD was rpm limited by the silly British horsepower tax. (That and a ridiculous rear axle ratio of 5.1:1) The calculated "tax" penalized the bore dimension and favored a long stroke. Plenty of torque but very hard on the lower end bearings at high speeds. With the long straight highways in the US, they were a mismatch, as were Jaguars and other early British marques. Here, it was not uncommon to see those engines needing bearings at 20-30k miles.
    Perfect if you just bopped around town or a drive in the country. But freeways? Just say no!

    edit; We had a nickname for the 36 hp Bettles... "Roadblock"!
    The XPAG engine produced 54 bhp stock. That engine was in production from 1939 to 1955.



    edited to change hp to bhp
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 08-13-2017 at 06:49 PM.
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  32. #67
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread


    I'm not denigrating the little XPAG, it did get some remarkable results for such a primitive design, particularly on small, short race courses.
    Didn't they go through a series of progressively larger carburetors, with a corresponding increase in Hp?


    "The so-called RAC horsepower rating was devised in 1910 by the RAC at the invitation of the British government.[1] The formula is:

    RAC h.p.=25D2nwhere D is the diameter (or bore) of the cylinder in inches and n is the number of cylinders [2]The formula was calculated from total piston surface area (i.e. "bore" only). The factor of 2/5 accounts for characteristics that were widely seen in engines at the time, such as a Mean effective pressure in the cylinder of 90psi (6.2 bar) and a maximum piston speed of 1000 feet per minute (5 metres per second).


    The emphasis on long strokes, combined with the nature of British roads in the pre-motorway era, meant that British engines tended to deliver strong low- and mid-range torque for their size but have low maximum speeds. The long stroke also meant that piston speeds and the load on the big end bearings became excessive at higher cruising speeds. Many smaller British cars did not cope well with sustained cruising at 60 mph or more, which led to reliability problems when the vehicles were exported to other markets, especially the United States. Cars such as the Austin A40, the Morris Minor and the Hillman Minxall achieved notable sales in the USA in the late 1940s (after the RAC Horsepower formula had been withdrawn but when car designs were still influenced by it) until the short service life of the engines when asked to routinely drive long distances at freeway speeds became clear. Other imports, notably the Volkswagen Beetle, which originated in countries with different fiscal horsepower rules and existing high speed road networks, proved more reliable and achieved much greater success.
    The distortive effects on engine design were seen to reduce the saleability of British vehicles in export markets.[3] While the system had protected the home market from the import of large-engined low-priced (because produced in such high volumes) American vehicles the need for roomy generously proportioned cars for export was now paramount[3] and the British government abandoned the tax horsepower system[1] with effect from 1 January 1947[4] replacing it at first with a tax on cubic capacity, which was in turn replaced by a flat tax applying from 1 January 1948.[5]"
    wiki

    edit as interesting;.

    http://www.mgccyregister.co.uk/technical-information/the-xpag-files/xpag-data/the-x-factor-origins-of-the-xpag/
    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 08-13-2017 at 07:04 PM.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    As I mentioned above, my best test for my TD was 3 large lads in a Ford Customline, one of whom had taken offence to something I'd said in the cannery at work that day. As I was leaving the worker's carpark that afternoon I looked in my rear vision mirror and saw the Ford about to ram me and push me out into the traffic. I floored it and found a s gap and the boys wallowed along after me. They had me in the straights but every time they got close I threw a left or right and watched the Customline wallow around .... then off again. I played for an hour then they gave up. FUN !!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  34. #69
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    Just curious 'the rest of the story'.... any repercussions (to you, or to them) when you returned to work?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  35. #70
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    Default Re: The MGTD thread

    None at all, but then it was casual work so I took a few days off to let their temperatures cool. They were large aggressive lads and I'm not big.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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