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Thread: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen dinghy

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    No. I wasn't.

    I was hoping for these:

    Last week...



    last night...

    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 08-22-2017 at 05:43 AM.
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Thanks Nick. That is what I wanted to post!

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  3. #38
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Shiny Love the way the fastenings are stitched into the timbers to secure the inner diagonal layer.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  4. #39
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    First coat of 50% thinned Epifanes which is as close to the old type copal varnish as I like to go. Intention is at least 9 more coats and 11 if I can.

    You can trace the run of the inner diagonal strakes from the nail heads. Not a single one of those nails - every one of which is turned on the rib that it passes through - has missed the centre of the tiny CRE rib to which it relates. The horizontal line of slightly larger nails marks the stringer to which the top of the small fore buoyancy tank is attached.

    Incidentally she has no self bailers. So she won't be getting any.

    "still to do..."

    Finish cutting out the local rot in the hog (fortunately limited and caught in time!) and epoxy in the best graving piece that I can manage.

    Another ten coats of varnish externally, strip the mast, replace the standing and running rigging, replace the corroded aluminium triple spreaders and double jumper struts, overhaul the mast winches, revarnish the mast... strip and re-varnish the inside (yikes!) remove revarnish and refit the centreboard and rudder, remove and replace all the brass hood end screws with bronze ones, ditto the other "mission critical" brass screws (centre case to hog, chain plates to hull...) get the 1962 Ratseys to the local sailmakers to repair the bits of the Genoa clew that Mrs Mouse made her nest with, find the pattern for the spinnaker boom, find the right patterns for the upper mainsheet block and the kicking strap blocks, replace the toe straps, sort out trailer trolley and covers and we should be able to go sailing next year...
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 08-22-2017 at 07:05 AM.
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Not a single one of those nails - every one of which is turned on the rib that it passes through - has missed the centre of the tiny CRE rib to which it relates. The horizontal line of slightly larger nails marks the stringer to which the top of the small fore buoyancy tank is attached.
    could it be that the builder drilled pilot holes from the inside of the boat for the nails? Seems like the easiest way to get such perfect alignment for ribs and diagonal planking...

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    My first model boat - from the 50ties , was given a couple of coats of linseed oil then a few coats of varnish. By the turn of the Millennium, the varnish was coagulated into a kind of reverse 'orange peel '.
    For some reason (I suppose because I had some ) i rubbed it with raw linseed - and it seems to have reconstituted it to an acceptable finish.
    More knowledgeable folk than I can opine on the merits of the possibility of saving the patina.
    (If not too late )

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Firefly, stripped and after two applications of oxalic acid...


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  8. #43
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    My first model boat - from the 50ties , was given a couple of coats of linseed oil then a few coats of varnish. By the turn of the Millennium, the varnish was coagulated into a kind of reverse 'orange peel '.
    For some reason (I suppose because I had some ) i rubbed it with raw linseed - and it seems to have reconstituted it to an acceptable finish.
    More knowledgeable folk than I can opine on the merits of the possibility of saving the patina.
    (If not too late )
    Too late for the outside; will try a patch inside!
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    I would think the discoloured wood is dead lignum, i would cut it all back to consistent coloured wood. My Storebro solo has a somewhat bigger patch like that in the widest sheer plank, but the Brazilian mahogany i bought is quite a ways different from the "chocolate" Honduras. Out with it and stick a dutchman in. Awesome boats, im wondering how many man hours that took.

    Edit. I recall a small rot patch in the African mahogany hog on one boat, round a keel bolt. Took out the immidiate rot around the bolt, and used "ronseal wood hardner" on the surrounding area that sounded "soft" when tapped, im not sure if its like CPES, but it stinks, if you can still but it. There was a huge difference in before and after found by drilling holes that were clean and tight, rather than fluffy before treatment.
    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 08-29-2017 at 02:34 AM.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Thanks. The area in question being invisible almost all the time (it's right under the mast step - but the damage is not connected to that - it's external only) I am going to use a bit of teak as a graving piece and live with the colour mismatch.
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  11. #46
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    It looks as though more has happened to the boat in the last week than in the previous fifty years.Will you be applying a thinned coat of varnish soon to prevent dirt and discolouration affecting the newly exposed wood?
    Two thinned coats.






    Pintle removed to varnish under it; it was fitted over a scrap of canvas soaked in white lead... may have to use a more modern mastic as white lead paste is now forbidden... unless I can make a case under the building regulations that the boat is an Ancient Monument...
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    You can get small quantities of white lead paste at an artist supply store.
    By the tube or by the pint or qt. can


    "lead oil paste ground"
    https://www.naturalpigments.com/lead...te-ground.html

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    You can get small quantities of white lead paste at an artist supply store.
    By the tube or by the pint or qt. can


    "lead oil paste ground"
    https://www.naturalpigments.com/lead...te-ground.html
    Very good point! I'm off to our local artists' store for "a tube of flake white". Thanks!
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  14. #49
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    You can get small quantities of white lead paste at an artist supply store.
    By the tube or by the pint or qt. can


    "lead oil paste ground"
    https://www.naturalpigments.com/lead...te-ground.html
    It's not so simple, at least here in the UK.

    Windsor and Newton who are by far the biggest suppliers of artists' colours no longer make lead whites, but will sell you a "flake white" which is not lead based.

    https://www.jacksonsart.com/blog/201...n-lead-whites/

    What we want is essentially pure lead carbonate ground in lineeed oil. This is what "flake white" was, and "foundation white" was a mixture of lead carbonate and titanium white. You can get Cremnitz White which is pure lead carbonate ground in oil and is extremely slow drying - at, to put iy mildly, a price!!!

    http://www.artdiscount.co.uk/paints-...nseed-oil.html
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 08-30-2017 at 05:52 AM.
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  15. #50
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Not forbidden just difficult to get hold of
    http://www.traditionalboatsupplies.c...ite-lead-paste

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    If only we could buy that here in the US.

    Back to the artist supply deal, it is sold in the UK as a pigment. (Mix with linseed oil until a paste)
    https://www.cornelissen.com/pigments...e-pigment.html

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by artif View Post
    Not forbidden just difficult to get hold of
    http://www.traditionalboatsupplies.c...ite-lead-paste
    I had forgotten Traditional Boat Supplies!

    Thanks!
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  18. #53
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    A sister - ZEUS, K500, built one year later and also in good nick, but missing a boom, has just popped back into the market, see here...

    http://www.cvrda.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6757
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    To return to the mahogany briefly;it has a very nice rich colour with the fresh varnish.You would be hard pressed to find mahogany of that quality now.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    To return to the mahogany briefly;it has a very nice rich colour with the fresh varnish.You would be hard pressed to find mahogany of that quality now.
    Yes, indeed. I am quite sure that this was stock that Uffa had in hand from before the War. There is a well known story of him taking an "export order" for a boat for Bermuda early in 1946 and then building 15 other boats whilst the buyer in Bermuda became progressively more irritated - because Uffa was showing the "export order" - which allowed him to get materials - to the Government Inspectors!

    I notice that the outer planking is "book matched" with each starboard strake matching the corresponding strake on the port side, so the planks must have been cut double thickness and then sawn through.
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  21. #56
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Got started on the mast, today. Need to remove the thick coating of copal varnish (the mast is actually black!), check the glue line, and replace the standing and running rigging... So all the fittings have to come off...

    For the first time, I want to give the shade of Uffa Fox a good kicking. How could he? The triple spreaders are made of aluminium tube with a very simple tensioning device - the piano wire diamond shrouds pass through the slots of brass machine screws which are of a size which permits the shank of the screw to pass down inside the tube whiilst the not sits on the end of the tube.


    So fars so not very good, because brass and aluminium in a marine atmosphere... but where the spreaders meet the mast...


    ... the alloy tube is sleeved into a brass tube which is peened over the stainless tabs for the diamonds and jumpers.


    I ask you!! A finer self destructing battery has not been seen in a racing craft since Nathaniel Herreshoff built the Defender in 1895 with bronze plates below the waterline and aluminium above on steel frames... but at least Captain Nat did not position the lot on a thin walled hollow silver spruce spar...

    I have been told that kite enthusiasts use small diameter carbon fibre tubing...
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 09-02-2017 at 04:28 PM.
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  22. #57
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Got started on the mast, today. Need to remove the thick coating of copal varnish (the mast is actually black!), check the glue line, and replace the standing and running rigging... So all the fittings have to come off...

    For the first time, I want to give the shade of Uffa Fox a good kicking. How could he? The triple spreaders are made of aluminium tube with a very simple tensioning device - the piano wire diamond shrouds pass through the slots of brass machine screws which are of a size which permits the shank of the screw to pass down inside the tube whiilst the not sits on the end of the tube.


    So fars so not very good, because brass and aluminium in a marine atmosphere... but where the spreaders meet the mast...


    ... the alloy tube is sleeved into a brass tube which is peened over the stainless tabs for the diamonds and jumpers.


    I ask you!! A finer self destructing battery has not been seen in a racing craft since Nathaniel Herreshoff built the Defender in 1895 with bronze plates below the waterline and aluminium above on steel frames... but at least Captain Nat did not position the lot on a thin walled hollow silver spruce spar...

    I have been told that kite enthusiasts use small diameter carbon fibre tubing...
    For how long do you think he intended a racing boat in a development class to need to last?
    Toxophilists use hollow carbon fibre shafts for their arrows. Might be better than flexi kite spars.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  23. #58
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    For how long do you think he intended a racing boat in a development class to need to last?
    Toxophilists use hollow carbon fibre shafts for their arrows. Might be better than flexi kite spars.
    To judge by the care with which each and every rib is mortised into the hog and luted with white lead paste, a jolly long time! This ain't no Moth! But he was always clear that he regarded the masts as expendable. At 850 for a new one from Collars, I don't quite see things that way!

    Good idea about the arrow shafts.
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    To judge by the care with which each and every rib is mortised into the hog and luted with white lead paste, a jolly long time! This ain't no Moth! But he was always clear that he regarded the masts as expendable. At 850 for a new one from Collars, I don't quite see things that way!
    Both are for strength and lightness. However he may have expected to break a spar (without drowning) till he found out the lower limit on thickness. Could not be so cavalier with the hull.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Actually I am continually surprised at the amount of old style boatbuilding craftsmanship to be found in the boat. The fore and aft strakes, including the wych elm garboards, are all in one length and they are all "book matched", port and starboard, which tells us that the planks were shaped and then sawn horizontally to make the pair. The keel is a single plank 14ft x 14 inches x an inch and a half.
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  26. #61
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    I knew two shipwrights who ripped a spilled double thicknes plank. One served his time at a Admiralty dockyard small craft shop, the other was the last Crossfield to work at boatbuilding.
    The benefits are that you only have to spile once, and maintain perfect symmetry. The other was that Crossfields used the thick offcuts from the plank for the stringers, risings, gunwales etc needed on the boat.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  27. #62
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    It has been suggested that after scraping internally I should liberally apply a "boat soup" consisting of linseed oil and clear Cuprinol. I am not sure about this, and would welcome the thoughts of others...

    I have some questions...

    Would it change the colour of the wood?

    Would it soak through and affect the external coats of varnish that I am currently applying?

    Would one use raw or boiled linseed oil?
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  28. #63
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    I think that would be a sticky, and stinky mess...
    Why not just varnish it?

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Boat soup is usually used when you are not coating it with varnish. It darkens wood. Just do the varnish bit. There are some new ones that don't need sanding between coats which is the way I'd go.
    Ben Fuller
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    If it is spirit based Cuprinol, like spirit based TBT wood preservative the effect will be the same as coating with thinned linseed. It will soak in and will not become sticky, I have done this using raw linseed. I assume that you are not talking about the Stockholm tar/linseed boat soup.
    I doubt whether it will soak all of the way through a double skinned hull, but if it does I don't think that it will change the colour any more than the varnish has already. Try it on a scrap of similar wood.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  31. #66
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Boat soup is usually used when you are not coating it with varnish. It darkens wood. Just do the varnish bit. There are some new ones that don't need sanding between coats which is the way I'd go.
    Deks Olje might be the way to go.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  32. #67
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    The place for an experiment will be inside the buoyancy tanks when I have the boat right way up. I am also thinking of giving the centreboard case a soaking before we put the board back.

    I was thinking of Deks Olje no.1 (only) for the bottom boards. They are screwed in but can be unscrewed for scraping and varnishing.
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    If it is spirit based Cuprinol, like spirit based TBT wood preservative the effect will be the same as coating with thinned linseed. It will soak in and will not become sticky, I have done this using raw linseed. I assume that you are not talking about the Stockholm tar/linseed boat soup.
    I doubt whether it will soak all of the way through a double skinned hull, but if it does I don't think that it will change the colour any more than the varnish has already. Try it on a scrap of similar wood.
    Thanks. I am very tempted to do this inside the three built in buoyancy tanks, to start with, and if all goes well to carry on with the same treatment elsewhere.

    Meanwhile... the mast... have removed the three cross trees, which are made from 3/8" Duralumin tube passing inside brass tube in way of the mast with the brass tube peened over the stainless steel tangs for the rigging, and removed the thick black coating of old copal varnish. The mast under the old varnish looked blotchy, and sitka spruce doesn't scrape (it tears up) so I gingerly picked up my pet no 4 plane, set the mouth very fine and took off a thin shaving everywhere... an iffy proceeding on a hollow mast with a wall thickness of 1/4"!

    Now I need to find some 3/8" OD Duralumin tube and some 3/8" ID brass tube...
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 09-12-2017 at 10:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Uffa got round the lug rig by having a Bermudian mast in two parts with a "fishing rod joint" and proceeded to win fifty two firsts from fifty seven starts, the other places being seconds and thirds, whilst also sailing AVENGER to Cherbourg, racing there and sailing back.. his point was made and he was set up for life. The rules were changed to allow Bermudian rig. From then until 1950, when Austin Farrar started in the class, Uffa Fox dominated the International Fourteen Foot Dinghy class
    From Sail and Power by Uffa Fox (1937):

    "In 1926 we were allowed bamboo spars, none of which could exceed 15 ft. 6 in. in length and the top of the mainmast could not stand more than 15 ft. 6 in. above the waterline... 1927 came, and still no Bermudian rigs were allowed by the wording of the rule...

    "In the winter of 1928 I asked the Dinghy Committee why they had to have a joint in the mast, and they said, 'A 15 ft. 6 in. mast will travel cheap, whereas a 24 ft. one will not.' I pointed out that the joint cost about 2 to make, and that a 24 ft. spar can be sent passenger train from Cowes on the south coast to the Clyde in Scotland for 7s., and that we bought 24 ft. bamboos and actually cut them and then put the joint in them, and made our duralumin collar to joint them. There was a great argument about this, as many there said they had tried to buy 24 ft. bamboo spars, but had been unable to. I explained that this was probably because I had bought every 24 ft. bamboo I knew of in the country, taking the whole of the last steamer load that came into London. After some talk, the joint was done away with....

    "With the dropping of the fishing-rod joint the rule that spars must be bamboo was cancelled and little change has taken place in the spars and rig since that day, except that though we only had one crosstree then, we later had two and finally three."
    Peter Belenky

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    Default Re: Some details of an Uffa Fox designed and built ribbed International Fourteen ding

    "Sail and Power" is very handy, as it has the complete spar and rigging plan!
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