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Thread: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopter.

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    Default Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopter.

    What was on Mike Folse’s drawing board at Bell Helicopter that day in March 1965 was supposed to be a hovercraft. It wasn’t. “I had an idea instead,” he explains. “My boss would be on vacation for two weeks.”
    Read more at http://www.airspacemag.com/military-...rOHTjEJbaMC.99

    “If anyone ever tells you ‘I hovered the Cobra and fired rockets and mini-guns at the enemy,’ they’re not telling you the truth,” says Bob Hesselbein. “You didn’t hover in a Cobra—not in Vietnam.”
    Hesselbein, former president of the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association and a retired Northwest Airlines pilot, flew the “Snake” with Army Air Cavalry units in Vietnam in 1972. “It was wild flying,” he says. “Lots of airspeed. Basically the closest thing to the way guys flew fighter planes in World War II.”




    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    I do believe that that is the rarely seen retractable skid cobra
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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    the prototype had retractable gear, but by build number 3 they reverted to skids

    The gear was fully functional, but Sewell says some were concerned that when landing on rice paddies in Vietnam, the landing gear bay could be inundated with mud. Another fear: that chopper pilots habituated to fixed skids might accidentally land gear-up.
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 08-05-2017 at 07:19 PM.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    Imagine landing gear up at the Paris air show?
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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    Imagine landing gear up at the Paris air show?
    worse than the mig 29 crash at paris?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    I'm not sure why exactly, but I'm thinking landing gear up is worse than floating down in a parachute while your steed leaves a smoking hole in the ground.

    maybe it's because one is an accident and the other is an omission.
    Last edited by CK 17; 08-05-2017 at 08:02 PM.
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    Default

    Be interesting g to hear our resident domain knowledge expert's take.
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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    The idea of having a "favorite attack helicopter" is pretty lunar.

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    Great story. Projects could really move fast in those days.

    I always liked the Lockheed Cheyenne, complicated but with greater potential. They finally got the bugs worked out after the program got cancelled. Lockheed had some tremendously creative thinkers, their solutions were usually radical.

    After the Cobra, some tasks went to the Apache, some to the A-10, both excellent designs.
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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    I'm not sure why exactly, but I'm thinking landing gear up is worse than floating down in a parachute while your steed leaves a smoking hole in the ground.

    maybe it's because one is an accident and the other is an omission.
    We had a pilot on jet conversion training (14sqn RNZAF) *almost* do a gear up landing. When I say almost, the ground-down stump of the belly VHF blade antenna was mounted, and presented to him when he left the squadron. That was the only damage to the aircraft, six inches lower would have been a different story.

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    Then there's forgetting to raise the gear. . .

    https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/new...-229428-1.html

    sorry for the the thread drift
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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    Oops

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    That'll buff out.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    expensive error

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt


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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    Yeah, that's the original Cobra, tail number N209J. I don't know if the "Juliet" is anything special other than a differentiator from other N209s but Bell dubbed it "Model 209" the "Huey Cobra" (the name is actually cast into the tail rotor pedals of every Cobra). Retractable gear was an unnecessary luxury designed to add a few extra knots of speed which wasn't even needed. Slicks (troop carrying Hueys) cruised at 90 and Cobras at 120 to 130. We could literally fly circles around them (and sometimes did). They did add crosstube fairings to streamline things a bit and there was a restriction of 160 knots max airspeed without them but it's not like things fell apart if you exceeded that.

    “If anyone ever tells you ‘I hovered the Cobra and fired rockets and mini-guns at the enemy,’ they’re not telling you the truth,” says Bob Hesselbein. “You didn’t hover in a Cobra—not in Vietnam.”A

    Actually I did. Once. Though I wasn't the one flying. The back seat was nicknamed "Wild Man" for multiple all very good reasons and it was a most unique way to fly a mission. For a coupe of reasons, I remember it like it was yesterday.
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    can a gear up landing ever be described as sweet?

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    https://youtu.be/fCTdsKQYAw8

    Blue Max in action during the battle of An Loc.
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    Very interesting article. Good find!

    A quote from it...

    Other helicopter makers wanted a piece of that interim action. To select the most worthy candidate, the Army mandated a fly-off at Edwards Air Force Base in southern California. “All a bunch of junk,” Folse says of the rival lineup. Boeing Vertol offered its heavy-lifting Chinook, and Sikorsky brought a twin-engine SH-3 Sea King. “Can you imagine aircraft that large as an attack helicopter?” Folse laughs.
    Read more at http://www.airspacemag.com/military-...eHU2rX6lY9p.99
    Sikorsky did in fact develop a S61 based attack helicopter, the S67 Blackhawk. Not to be confused with the present day S70 Blackhawk. Check out this old grainy video...



    For sure it was too late, too big, and too much to beat out the Cobra, but it was pretty cool.

    http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/S-67%20BLACKHAWK.php

    The S-67 Blackhawk

    Background
    In the mid 1960s Sikorsky had a good level of business, with S-61s, S-64s and S-65s in production. But over the last decade Sikorsky had lost competitions for the army utility helicopter (won by Bell with the UH-1), the army large utility helicopter (won by Vertol with the CH-47 Chinook), the LOH, Light Observation Helicopter (won by Hughes with the OH-6), the AAFSS, Advanced Aerial Fire Support System (won by Lockheed with the AH-56 Cheyenne) and the HLH, Heavy Lift Helicopter (won by Boeing Vertol). The future became a concern, with no new production programs in sight. Numerous new approaches were being investigated. One of these was the S-67 Blackhawk.
    As the AH-56 Cheyenne program proceeded with numerous technical issues, Sikorsky saw an opportunity to compete in the gunship-type aircraft market. In 1969, under company funds, Sikorsky built the S-67 Blackhawk (Note that this is one word, not to be confused with the later UH-60 Black Hawk - two words). The S-67 was a true “skunk works” type of development, completed in a remarkable short nine months and at a cost of less than $3 million. Design was initiated in November 1969, fabrication started in February 1970, and first flight occurred on August 20, 1970.

    The S-67 consisted of an all-new narrow tandem two-person fuselage combined with the dynamic system from the S-61/H-3 production helicopters. It was a “semi-compound” including a wing but not auxiliary propulsion.

    Last edited by BrianW; 08-09-2017 at 06:28 PM.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    Sikorsky brought a twin-engine SH-3 Sea King. “Can you imagine aircraft that large as an attack helicopter?” Folse laughs.
    The Mil Mi-24 is not that far off, is it?

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Excellent article on the conception of every bilgerat's favourite attack helicopt

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    The Mil Mi-24 is not that far off, is it?
    The Hind is actually a little bit larger than the SH-3.

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