Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 56
Results 176 to 195 of 195

Thread: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

  1. #176
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21,239

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    yea oz, jokes. if you think what i'm discussing in this obscure forum on the internet will actually impact anything, anywhere, ever... then that sir, is the greatest joke of all.
    The fact that you think it DOESN'T is bitter poison.
    Rattling the teacups.

  2. #177
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    41,431

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    So... ANOTHER disingenuous dingbat for the round-file. <sigh>
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  3. #178
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    876

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    me not having an optimistic outlook for the impact of these discussions does not equate to being disingenuous. but kudos on the name calling. dingbat. really tore through the thesaurus for that one.

  4. #179
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    41,431

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    me not having an optimistic outlook for the impact of these discussions does not equate to being disingenuous. but kudos on the name calling. dingbat. really tore through the thesaurus for that one.
    I tried to give it all the effort warranted. <G>
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  5. #180
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,073

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    I'm not talking about abolishing all taxes. I thought we were talking about in inheritance taxes. I was hoping everyone could follow the theme of what was being discussed without going "that's ANARCHY" "he says ALL taxes are theft" or "he hates ALL LAWS". but I guess not.
    Pardon me if I take you at your word. You wrote "I guess it's more the principle of the government taking what they haven't earned by force." Perhaps you didn't mean that. Perhaps you were just being histrionic. I start with the assumption that people mean what they write unless it's an obvious joke (like me sounding like a Republican; I did get that one) or they tell me otherwise. If you argue against inheritance taxes by invoking the principle that "government taking what it hasn't earned by force" is wrong, then you have no grounds to complain what we point out what that principle means and what applying it would really look like.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  6. #181
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    876

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Pardon me if I take you at your word. You wrote "I guess it's more the principle of the government taking what they haven't earned by force." Perhaps you didn't mean that. Perhaps you were just being histrionic. I start with the assumption that people mean what they write unless it's an obvious joke (like me sounding like a Republican; I did get that one) or they tell me otherwise.

    well, i was applying it to the general discussion about death or inheritance taxes. obviously society won't function without taxes of any sort.

  7. #182
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,073

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Good, on that we agree. The question then is what should be taxed and how much, and how the taxes should be structured. And since taxes are essential, then objecting to 'the government taking what they haven't earned by force' is not a valid argument against any particular tax.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 08-08-2017 at 11:25 AM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  8. #183
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    876

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Good, on that we agree. The question then is what should be taxed and how much, and how the taxes should be structured. And since taxes are essential, then objecting to 'the government taking what they haven't earned by force' is not a valid argument against any particular tax.

    by the point of death, you have paid taxes on all of your wealth. why take an absurd amount over and above what you have already paid at that point? why not go ahead and start taxing life insurance policies as well.

  9. #184
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,073

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    By the point of death, you have paid taxes on all of your wealth.
    This is incorrect. Appreciated assets, the bulk of very large inheritances, are not taxed before death.

    Let me propose a general principle: Taxes are necessary, but unpleasant at best, and the system of taxation should be designed to do the least harm to taxpayers; i.e. to cause the least suffering and affect their lives as little as possible. Would you agree?
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  10. #185
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    876

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    This is incorrect. Appreciated assets are not taxed.

    Let me propose a general principle: Taxes are necessary, but unpleasant at best, and the system of taxation should be designed to do the least harm to taxpayers; i.e. to cause the least suffering and affect their lives as little as possible. Would you agree?

    what type of appreciated assets are you referring to? i get taxed every year on my home and they base those taxes on what the current values are.

    everyone has to pay taxes. you can make an argument that there should be a flat percentage that everyone pays or that poor pay none, middle class pay some, and upper class pay a lot. i mean, that's an argument i suppose. what percentage should the government get upon your untimely demise? what monetary minimum does that start? does it vary from state to state? 1 mil in california will buy you a cozy 3 bedroom in the nicer areas but it'll get you a 12k sq ft lake mansion in my area (and a few nice boats). i say let people will their money to where they want with no absurd taxes.

  11. #186
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    21,978

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    This is incorrect. Appreciated assets, the bulk of very large inheritances, are not taxed before death.

    Let me propose a general principle: Taxes are necessary, but unpleasant at best, and the system of taxation should be designed to do the least harm to taxpayers; i.e. to cause the least suffering and affect their lives as little as possible. Would you agree?
    https://www.economist.com/news/speci...plucking-geese
    LOUIS XIV’S FINANCE minister, Jean-Baptiste Colbert, famously declared that “the art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing.” When it comes to taxing companies, a modern finance minister might rephrase this as “the largest possible amount of revenue with the smallest possible amount of economic and political damage.”
    I like Colbert's phrasing better.

  12. #187
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,073

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Cute, but I'd say that Colbert's phasing is clever, but not accurate. The point is not to get revenue with less kvetching, but less actual damage. Taxation shouldn't be inversely proportional to whining. In pre-revolutionary France the commoners got hit harder because they couldn't complain - at least until 1789 when they complained pretty forcefully.

    Alan, I was thinking mainly of unrealized capital gains.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  13. #188
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    41,431

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Presidential Purity Olympics?

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-202...way?yptr=yahoo

    Wouldn’t you know it, on the very delicious-to-watch week that Republicans start jumping off the leaky Trump frigate, some Democrats began testing attacks on one of their own, possible 2020 presidential contender Kamala Harris. The charge, leveled by a few folks on the left, including one member of the Democratic Party Unity Commission (!), is the usual one: that Harris is a corporate stooge in the mold of you-know-who and if the Democrats are even thinking about nominating her, the dis-unity commission will get to work sabotaging her.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  14. #189
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,693

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc
    if you think what i'm discussing in this obscure forum on the internet will actually impact anything, anywhere, ever... then that sir, is the greatest joke of all.
    The fun is that people here take is seriously. After all this is the internet.
    Life is complex.

  15. #190
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21,239

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    The fun is that people here take is seriously. After all this is the internet.
    What's funny is that most folk do not realize just who has logins here!

    Rattling the teacups.

  16. #191
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Caribbean cliff edge
    Posts
    14,557

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Let me propose a general principle: Taxes are necessary, but unpleasant at best, and the system of taxation should be designed to do the least harm to taxpayers; i.e. to cause the least suffering and affect their lives as little as possible. Would you agree?
    Agree, but that is not how it works in practice.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  17. #192
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,073

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Agree, but that is not how it works in practice.
    Many things don't work in practice the way they should. But that doesn't mean the principle is wrong, nor that we shouldn't try to design tax systems along those lines.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  18. #193
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    41,431

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Just a reminder what the thread is about. I was beginning to think it was about attempting to drain the Mighty Mississippi of Misconceptions brought to us by the latest of the loudly confused.

    I swear to god, if you invited 20 Democratic and/or liberal partisans to a four-star, five-course meal at the finest restaurant in all Provence, at least eight of them would get up, cross the room, and start fighting over who gets to eat out of the dog's bowl. Presented with a legitimate national crisis in the White House, and presented with the golden political opportunity that said crisis is almost entirely the fault of the Republican Party, which has demonstrated that it is wholly incapable of handling it, the Democratic Party has a chance to realign the electoral map over (at least) the next four years. All that's required is shrewdness, patience, and the ability to resist cannibalizing themselves long enough to watch the dry rot collapse the other side entirely.


    Fat ferckling chance.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  19. #194
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,693

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Good, on that we agree. The question then is what should be taxed and how much, and how the taxes should be structured. And since taxes are essential, then objecting to 'the government taking what they haven't earned by force' is not a valid argument against any particular tax.
    Since Congress didn’t have the power to tax and there was no organized national bank, printing money was the primary source of funding Congress used during the Revolutionary War starting in 1775. And it printed a lot of money – the printing presses worked non-stop from 1775 to 1781!
    No one needs taxes. That seems to be the current view now as much as in the past. But taxes do make governing a bit easier.
    Life is complex.

  20. #195
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    41,431

    Default Re: Self-Sabotaging Democrats?

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-voi...urce=DDMorning

    There are a lot of reasons why it’s Donald Trump who’s sitting in the White House (though technically right now in New Jersey) deciding what the United States of America is going to do about North Korea. You know the big ones, we don’t need to go over them.But on this day, in the wake of Trump’s insanely irresponsible fury and fire rhetoric, let’s give a special little shout out to those brilliant people who argued that Hillary Clinton was more likely to start World War III than Donald Trump.

    I’ve been looking back over some articles from last year and am reminded that it was a surprisingly robust theme, this idea that Clinton was more dangerous than Trump. I doubt many votes hinged on this single issue, but it became a key talking point in the larger narrative that Clinton was corrupt and unprincipled and there really wasn’t much difference between her and Trump.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •