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Thread: How much does a free boat cost?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Yesterday I cut some more rail of the starboard side and got it replaced.
    [IMG]

    I trimmed the centrecase down 10mm to allow putting new timber around the top. One side had a bit of rot in it, so I removed that side completely. I cut a notch into one side of this piece of timber with the sawbench so that it will sit on top of the ply and protect the end grain.
    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    The other 3 side just got a piece added over the top of the existing frame to cover the end grain.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    The port side of the hull had some water damage around the chainplate, so I cut the rail and some of the side ply back to dry timber.
    [IMG]
    It looks like in this photo I've already painted neat epoxy onto the glueing surfaces.

    All glued and clamped up ready for tomorrow.
    [IMG]
    I may get another piece of deck on there I guess. I remembered after it was too late that I was intending to cut the slot for the chainplate before attaching, but that will happen later now.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Hey Slako, In spite of the problems you have to deal with, I think you will set it right and end up with a good pair of hulls and trampoline.
    I like your enthusiasm!
    Jay

  4. #39
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Thanks Jay.
    I stuck a small fan heater in the hull and put some covers on top of the clamps. The glue was hard 4 hours later!
    I'm enjoying not having to sand fibreglass on this job yet.
    It's a nice change that everything isn't encased in plastic.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Today, I tidied up the glue jobs from yesterday and adjusted the height of the centrecase down a little.

    I started to align the top of the centrecase to the centreline of the hull which is a bit out.
    The sides of the hull are pretty floppy with no deck so I was also trying to set them to fair curves at the same time.
    These 2 tasks turned out to be in opposition to each other a little so the simple way that it was done when I took it apart isn't going to work.
    There was just a brace from each side of the centrecase to the hull. I'm going to have to use temporary braces from the chine to the top of the case each side to align that and link the hull sheer to the centrecase with timber to push the sheer into shape.
    Once the deck is back on it will all be solid.
    This issue is linked to having to twist the hull a little to get the transom in line with the bow.
    It was probably shonky as found, and the other hull has twist in it too sitting out on the trailer.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Yesterday I continued trying to get the centreboard aligned and a fair deck shape.
    The break and rethink was time well spent because I got it all lined up and glued in about 30 minutes.
    [IMG]

  7. #42
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Today after work I remembered to cut the slot for the chainplate.
    [IMG]
    I'm not sure this would have gone without a multitool, but I'm just glad I have one.

    I then wet the mating surfaces out and put the next section of deck on.
    [IMG]
    The deck is totally level, unlike how it appears in the photo!

    I then attacked the bow section and got the bulk of it removed.
    [IMG]

    I stapled the deck on as shown above.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    This afternoon I cleaned up the old deck and got rid of all the copper nails, then gave it a sand.

    [IMG]

    The chainplate had been leaking, so the plywood skin and the end of the cross brace was rotten. I cut the side back to good material and removed the brace after measuring how wide the deck was at that point.
    I also removed the butt block where the deck ply was joined.
    [IMG]

  9. #44
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Today I shaped all the bits that were needed to replace the rotten stuff that I cut away.
    I painted them all with epoxy then glued them in place.
    A few clamps and then the fan heater blowing over them to get the epoxy to kick.
    The stick on top was to hold the cross brace down in place, with tape on it to stop it being permanent.
    This cross brace was originally in the plans to mount a forward beam that wasn't needed. There is tape on the clamps as well to stop them sticking.
    [IMG]
    [IMG]

    3 hours later it was hard enough to remove the clamps, and after a scrape I was ready to put the next piece of deck on. This got cut and stapled on.
    Just the small section on the bow to do, as the clamp at the fwd end of the rail wasn't set enough to hold it in place.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    This morning I cut a piece of ply for the bow section and got it glued in place.
    [IMG]
    [IMG]

    I then started making holes in the new deck.
    I eyeballed the centreboard from the bottom of the hull and drilled a Hail Mary hole in the centre of the deck.
    [IMG]
    That router is an off brand made by Makita that was $200 less than the otherwise identical green one with Makita on it.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    I then taped around where the centreboard should be to protect the deck from the router. 20 seconds later I had a centreboard slot again!
    [IMG]
    The green stripes in the tape are because the only masking tape I could find is autoclave indicator tape.
    It is the same, but changes colour if steamed for the correct time and temperature. The other change is that it is 5 times the price!
    I cleaned up the hole with the multitool sander, and with a dab of filler at the front and rounded off with the router it is ready to go.
    [IMG]

    I also made the holes to mount an inspection hatch in the rear of the deck for access to mounting bolts for the rear beam and the rudder.
    [IMG]

    The deck will get a coat of epoxy to seal it, then be varnish finished unless I make some booboo's from here.
    The bow was dry enough this afternoon with the heater on it to remove the staples and run the router around the outside of the deck.
    I am going to remove about 10mm from the rail and deck all round with the router, then put a varnished band of Cedar around that will make a bump strip and bury the plywood endgrain.
    I had a trial go this afternoon after getting a longer straight router bit.
    It was successful, so I will go ahead with this plan.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Yesterday after removing the last few screws holding the gunwales to the internal backing timbers I ran the router around the gunwale, taking it down to 10mm thick.
    A task that was fraught with danger to myself and the hull. Luckily only the timber I wanted gone was removed and I still have 10 digits.

    This is the fence setup on the router that used the hull as the guide.
    [IMG]
    Even this little tiddler router bites pretty hard!

    [IMG]

    I then countersunk for the screws and reinstalled, marking on the hull where they are so I hopefully don't hit them when drilling for the beams.
    [IMG]
    Looking at that photo reminded me that I also drilled the deck for the fwd inspection port. It is offset to the centre so it doesn't get broken from being sat on.
    Last edited by Slacko; 08-23-2019 at 12:18 AM.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Today I ripped down some cedar for the gunwale outer edge. I'm getting low on the cedar that I recovered from the house cladding.
    It was on the house for 50 years, and is sitting nice and dry in my wood rack.
    I also cut some new ccedar to make the wider section for sitting on when hiked out.
    [IMG]
    It got cleaned up a bit more through the thicknesser.
    The kindling box got refilled as well with the offcuts.
    [IMG]

    The last thing I got done was coat the deck with unthickened epoxy to seal it and give a bit of strength to the deck.
    [IMG]

    I mixed the excess epoxy with microballoons and filled the repairs to the hull and covered the screwheads in the gunwale.
    I did remember to cut the slots in the deck for the chainplates so the holes got resin coated as well.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Looking good! I love looking at other peoples build photos and seeing bikes, extra wood, paint, and other garage items in the background...looks like our shop. Is that a table saw/router table combo?

  15. #50
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Thanks Powerwagon!
    The Triton sawbench can take multiple decks with different tools mounted in them. I've got 2 bases at the moment because I bought another one cheap to get some missing bits. I can have both set up with different tools in them, but the nice thing is being able to set them up with the other table for runout. I've got a sliding table that attaches to the side so I can rip full sheets. It takes a bit of room to set up though.
    It can even be set up as a sliding saw by turning the skillsaw over.

    The epoxy was almost dry this morning, so I set up the fan heater blowing across the deck.
    I'll be able to work on the gunwales this afternoon.
    It is a month to opening day, so I need to get a wriggle on with this. At least with the second hull I will be in the novel position of having done it before.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    I needed to figure out where the beams need to be positioned and not wanting to trust the boat how it was, I printed the Paper Tiger measurement rules.
    The base of the transom is the datum for the hulls. I needed to set up a stringline from the bow to 405mm above the transom base.
    Using a framing square I marked a dot on the string where a line at 90 degrees to the stringline touches the transom base.
    [IMG]

    I then needed to measure along the string forward and dropped down at 90 degrees again to locate the centrelines of the beams.
    Arcane but unambiguous, as all measurement rules need to be.

    This allowed me to then locate the extra wide section of the gunwale for hiking. (no more than 40 mm wide).

    I'm getting more comfortable cutting scarfs, although Cedar is a pleasure with sharp tools.

    [IMG]

    All clamped up and squeeze out scraped off!
    [IMG]
    The wider bit of gunwale is in the foreground.

    [IMG]

    Looks easy there but I was a bit of a one armed paper hanger for awhile there.
    The staples weren't quite long enough to hold the timber on, so quick thinking and a "don't try this at home moment" with a cable tie holding the safety back on the air brad nailer allowed me to fire nails at it from a distance so the heads stuck out and can be removed.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    This afternoon I pulled out all the nails and staples.
    Then I sanded all the glue blobs off the cedar and the trusty Stanley 78 got a bit of work taking the gunwale down to size top and bottom. I like this tool more the more I use it.

    [IMG]

    I then sanded the deck and rails to get it all even and got rid of the resin lumps and bumps after coating the deck with epoxy.

    After that I got busy with the router shaping the gunwale.
    6 mm round over for the bulk of it.
    I used an Ogee bit on the underneath of the wider piece for sitting on, then a 12 mm round over bit for the top edge. I blended to the rest of the rail with a chisel and sandpaper.
    Then I gave everything another coat of epoxy to seal it all.

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    I'm itching to get started on the other hull, but resisted the urge to move this one out to the carport before coating it.
    I think I'll move it out there tomorrow and wait until the second one is at this stage before varnishing both at the same time.
    I'll have to touch up some paint as well, but will wait to see how much is needed on the second hull before committing to much effort.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Snap, been here before!
    [IMG]

    I swapped the hulls over with the one ready for finishing going into the carport.
    I checked the twist in this one and as shown it's got "some".
    I levelled the transom and then ran the level over where the fwd bean sits.
    [IMG]

    I'm sure I can get rid of this as it will be pretty floppy with no deck on.
    I've not done any work in the last 2 days, but I probably won't post as often for the 2nd hull, unless something different occurs.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    So, not much posting on here for a while.
    Been busy though!

    This is the Starboard hull with the first coat of varnish on.
    [IMG]

    and the port one in the same state in the carport.
    [IMG]

    The second hull was in slightly better state than the first, except for needing a bit more timber grafting into the centrecase.
    I got 3 coats of varnish on with a bit of sanding in between.

    I fitted the access ports with some goop, then got onto fitting the used centreboards I picked up online.
    [IMG]

  20. #55
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    I made guides for the centreboards from a Teflon cutting board.
    [IMG]

    I fitted lines to extend and retract the centreboards from the opposite hull, no photo of that sorry. I need to take an overall to show the final look.

    The top rudder pintles went back on.
    [IMG]

    It was coming together really well, but time was getting tight for opening day at the yacht club!

    I had a massive day mounting the beams back on.
    The original locations had been lost in the rebuild and I'm dubious they would have been within the class rules.
    The datum for the location of everything is the corner of the transom and the bottom of the hull.
    I made a jig to get a deck datum 405 up from the bottom of the transom that was 90 degrees to a line projected from the bow.
    The beams then measure forward from there.
    [IMG]

    [IMG]
    The jig worked really well and gave me repeatable measurements.
    I then spent an amazing amount of time getting the maximum beam correct and hulls parallel.
    Then I drilled all the mounting holes and bolted it together in about an hour, plenty of goop to seal the penetrations.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    I still had to fit the tramp and hiking straps, and a plethora of other jobs with race day looming.
    I fitted an internal outhaul, and downhaul with a modified Ronstan swivel cleat that does both controls.
    I made a traveller with
    dyneema and
    a low friction ring, a swivel cleat bracket for the traveller that uses the other end of the mainsheet so I have a loop that controls both.

    But this is the first sail, going out to the startline.
    [IMG]

    And returning in one piece after the race.
    [IMG]

    I ran out of time to even get the mast up prior to race day, so the mast rake was miles out as I've found since.
    It was fast, but slow compared to the fleet. I still managed to get a hull flying when the breeze was up, but that is going to take some time to get used to!
    I've been working all week to get the mast trim right, and I still need to repair the beam that connects the rudders. It just lasted the race!
    Ohh, and I also built a beach trolley during the week.
    I managed to get that built from bits lying around and $20 worth of stuff.
    That was the only part of the rebuild exercise that was cheap.
    A bit of plywood and some glue that I mostly also had was beer money, but the small handfuls of rigging I keep buying for the sail controls doesn't bear thinking about.
    I've probably doubled my investment to date (minus the trailer cost).

  22. #57
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    I just checked the total spend before the rebuild, and I'm more like double including the trailer, so around $1500 all in.
    The second hand rudders and centreboards were about $600 of that, but $2000 worth new.
    One of the other sailor gave me a sail, so I can delay buying a new one for awhile to make sure I'm keen.
    It's looking like a bit more wind than I would like tomorrow, but I'm ready to go anyway.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Wow! This looks great, Slacko!

    Going to go back and read this thread from the start. Congratulations on a job well done.

    Mike

  24. #59
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    October 2019 was the last update on this thread.
    Since then I've done a full summer season, then a winter series, "Brrrr".
    Lots of tweaking of rigging, mast rake, rudder rake etc.
    Slowly getting closer to the rest of the club fleet.
    At the end of the winter series one of the guys in the fleet was having a bit of a clearout, so for $600 I picked up a really nice but not quite current generation carbon sail, a mast with the carbon stiffener inside, and a tramp that when tightened up stiffens the whole boat.
    The boat has a heap more power, but at the same time is more forgiving as the mast twists off in the gusts.
    The best speed I've managed is about 18 Knots. I know this because the wind was 18-25 that day, and downwind the windex was spinning, which tells me I was doing windspeed.

    I mentioned in the club that I would like to build some new centerboards as the ones I'm using are about twice the size as the current thinking and giving me more drag.
    The next week one of the guys presented me with his router sled and profiles, and the end off one of the ones he made as a sample.

    I decided I better get on with it, if I'm going to make them.
    I found some spare window frame timber with a nice groove in it for the sled rails and got started.
    The boards need to be 1100mm long, 170 chord and about 20 mm thick, so it is thicker than a NACA profile, but the boards I'm copying are from the fastest boat/sailor in our fleet currently. He also said to give them a bit more hollow in the taper than the profiles supplied, so I'll see what happens.
    I'll make the blanks about 1500 long to give me plenty of material to work with.
    [IMG]

    I made a timber guide to fit on my router so it would fit the profiles nicely, but then realised that the thickness of all that was going to prevent the cutter from reaching the timber.

    [IMG]

    I ended up making a new sled that was the right width for my router and installing the profiles into that.
    I now need to get some more cedar for the core, some carbon cloth to wrap it with and some carbon tape to bury lengthwise in the timber on both sides.
    This is all new stuff for me, but how wrong can I go?!

  25. #60
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    I scored a big chunk of cedar from one of the PT sailors at the club, so shaped it down so I have two planks to get started.
    The orange Maktec off-brand Makita router started to make bearing not happy noises, so I now have a green one too.
    The price of the routers had halved in the interim.


    I found the hard way that having the rig set up higher than the saw horses would make the job a whole lot less painful on the back.
    I've been doing lots of small cuts rather than tearing into it, but now have them where I want them.


    There are 2 steps in each side for the Carbon unitape to sit in.



    The tape is cut, and ready for me to get into it tonight after dinner.
    Feeling a bit of trepidation, just coz it gets expensive if it goes bad from here in. Up to now it's just time and some cedar.
    The blanks weigh 750 grams each with the 150 long ends on.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Well that went OK.
    1st layer centered on where the board exits the hull.


    There is another piece 750 long under this piece to spread the load along the board.


    I was laying them on, coating with a brush, then flipping over and coating the other side to try to get good absorption.
    The difference with carbon is that you get no visible colour change of the weave when it is full.
    I just went on the glossiness of the surface.

    I then laid peel ply over the top and rolled it down with a foam roller.


    The epoxy came through the peel ply nicely, so I'm happy that I'm not resin starved.
    My steel disk epoxy roller is too full of epoxy to roll nicely. I must try heating it up to around 80 Dec C, and then soaking in vinegar to get it clean.

    I repeated on the other side so it doesn't warp when curing, and clamped it upright so either side has an equal chance of peeling off before it cures.



    Fingers crossed now!

  27. #62
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    That worked well I think. I peeled the piece off the end to have a look at it.


    I'll repeat the process with the second board tonight.
    On another thread about peel ply there was a comment of why use it if you are not vacuum bagging.
    My reasons are that I was able to get a dry foam roller over the surface and squeeze it down so that the peel ply will soak up excess resin rather than the cloth floating off.
    It is also now completely smooth and requires no sanding or any other prep before I hit it with some fairing filler to bring it back up to the foil profile.
    Any blush is on the peel ply not the workpiece, and can be completely ignored as an issue.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Second board is now curing.
    I noticed this one wasn't straight after the shaping, so I put the level against it and the clamp is pulling the middle across by 1/2 a mm or so.


    The first board now weighs 1040 grams, so that is 290 grams of carbon, peel ply and glass.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    This afternoon I removed the peel ply, then gave the cedar that hadn't been carbon laminated a quick hand sand to remove any epoxy lumps that would get in the way of the next step.
    I then mixed up some fast hardening epoxy and fairing powder.
    This was liberally applied over the carbon to bring it up proud of the router profile.



    When cured I will run the router back over it and put the shape back in.
    I'll hook up the vacuum to the router somehow to extract the spray of partially cured filler from the cutter.

    I don't expect it to be the last application of fairing compound in my immediate future!

  30. #65
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    I've been busy in the evenings this last week.
    I ran the router back over the boards, filled the low spots and repeated.

    I then made a plywood profile of the shape to check the leading and trailing edges. The leading edges got rounded over and the trailing edges thinned out.
    The blanks are 14 mm thick now, and with the excess cut off the ends the lighter one is 840 grams and the heavier 930 g.
    It has always been a bit heavier which must be the wood density or moisture content.
    I just remembered to write on the ends whether they were top or bottom as the carbon is concentrated where the boards exit the centre case.
    I'm now preparing to lay the carbon twill over the entire board, cutting the carbon and peel ply ready to go.
    I'm wondering about where the ends meet at the trailing edge.
    I'm planning to use an ali section to clamp the trailing edge down to squeeze them together at the right angles.
    There will be some excess that will need to be trimmed off, but I'm worried about how to trim the edge back cleanly.
    I'm not sure if carbon can be sanded.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    This afternoon I shaped the bottom ends of the boards.


    I covered that board in clingfilm so I could use it as a laminating board and it wouldn't get covered in epoxy.

    I resin coated both the board and the carbon cloth,



    then folded the cloth over the board. I was able to slide it around into the position that I needed.
    I then wrapped it in the peel ply and was able to work the cloth out flat, smooth, and tight around the board.



    The last thing was to clamp the trailing edge down to the table with an aluminium section wrapped in packing tape so it doesn't stick.
    Hopefully this will bond the two edges together in a nice shape for fairing if required.
    Those areas that look like bumps are the shine of excess epoxy. I even went and double checked just now to be sure.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    I removed the peel ply this morning and checked the outcome from yesterday.
    There is a bit of cleanup, but happy with progress.



    I then repeated the procedure with the second board.
    Hopefully it will come out as well.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    I mixed some epoxy with the West 410 fairing filler in a very runny mix to fill the weave. I just did one side of both as it would drip off probably.
    It is self levelling at this consistency, easy sanding and lighter than straight resin too.



    I'll do a few coats of this to build up a low spot in the shape of both boards as well.
    I trimmed the carbon wrap on one of the boards and it relatively easy to do with a Stanley knife and sandpaper.
    The stiffness of them is astonishing!

  34. #69
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    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    I've been working away in the evenings on this.
    After sanding back the runny fill coat, I made a plywood profile for the shape I wanted.
    I filled and sanded both boards 3 times, less filler each time with most of it ending up on the floor.
    This would probably have been easier to do before putting the carbon wrap on, but I didn't realise how accurately the carbon wrap would follow the shape I had made.
    It probably would have still needed some fairing after, but much less.

    Cutting the shape that I needed into the boards was definitely check thrice before cutting.
    Way too much work has gone into these now to chuck them away from a simple mistake.

    [IMG]

    I was pleased with how much carbon and glue I had in the trailing edge.

    I then gave them a coating of epoxy with graphite in as shown in mike1902's dinghy thread. I'm not as skilled a wood butcher as Mike, but am happy to copy.
    I hung them up so as to get the whole board done in one shot. It was dripping off the ends when I left the shed last night.
    A rethink was in order!
    I sanded back one side of each of them when I got home from work and got them basically to shape again.

    [IMG]

    This time I had them flat and coated only one side.
    That looks better!

    [IMG]

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    944

    Default Re: How much does a free boat cost?

    Both side got the second coat.
    I've sanded them down using the profile as a guide and have got them to the correct shape again.
    A couple of high spots show a little colour, but they have been flattened down with 400 grit and they feel quite slippery and fast now.
    I got bored and may go to higher grades of sandpaper at a later date.
    I just need to paint the cedar handles on the top that showed through the 2 coats of Graphite epoxy.
    I found some bright red oil based paint that will do the trick nicely.



    It's the last race of the summer season this weekend, so I probably won't get them ready to use as I need to change the centreboard slots to fit the new board shape.
    Currently they are square and massive, so there are speed gains to be made there as well.
    Last edited by Slacko; 04-13-2021 at 02:36 AM.

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