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Thread: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Ghost Fleet Mallows Bay Maryland



    Now THAT would be an interesting restoration job!
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Ye Olde Abandoned Renaissance Faire, Fredericksburg, Virginia













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  3. #38
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

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    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Wonder if any other country abandons so much and just leaves it. (Maybe Italy?) There was a half-finished skyscraper downtown where construction was stopped in the 1929 crash. The steel skeleton was still standing in the 1950s, finally torn down in the 1960s.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    There is no doubt in my mind that cities built on old technology that fail to change will die. Detroit failed. They will be reborn when we adopt a new model for urban landscape and the technology that supports them. Not before.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Some great sets for dystopian films.

    Cheap, too.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Wonder if any other country abandons so much and just leaves it. (Maybe Italy?) There was a half-finished skyscraper downtown where construction was stopped in the 1929 crash. The steel skeleton was still standing in the 1950s, finally torn down in the 1960s.

    at least we use our first.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/these...-stand-empty-2

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    There is no doubt in my mind that cities built on old technology that fail to change will die. Detroit failed. They will be reborn when we adopt a new model for urban landscape and the technology that supports them. Not before.
    Cities 60 feet away from Detroit do quite well. What old technology is it that can't cross a street?

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Cities 60 feet away from Detroit do quite well. What old technology is it that can't cross a street?
    I don't think that your question makes any sense or demonstrates any understanding of what I said.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    What happens when Government enters the same abandoned state?

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    What happens when Government enters the same abandoned state?
    You mean when it abandons new energy technology in favor of coal? When it abandons valid news sources in favor of partisan lies? When it abandons education entirely? When we abandon real science in favor of supporting partisan agendas? When it abandons capital investment in roads and bridges in favor of military arms and tax breaks? I think we will look more like Detroit every day until we reverse our direction.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    fasinating.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    If everyone wanted a new build there would be no restoration.
    Makin old new again is magic.
    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    .
    A glimpse of what remains of where I worked the summers of 1972, 1973, 1974 and from 8/76 until 9/97.



    The open section in the video once contained a 2 story part of the plant with a paint department on the 2nd floor. It has been demolished.

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  16. #51
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    There's condos where The Shipyards were.
    Things sure have changed in our town.
    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    ^
    They sure have. I drove Rt 57 from Rt 2 in Elyria to Broadway to Lake Road in Lorain this past May.

    I remember when Lorain, Ohio was a vibrant manufacturing City in the 60's and 70's. Steel mills, ship building and auto building... all gone.

    Some parts are new, pretty and alive. Other parts not so much.
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 07-28-2017 at 10:21 PM.

    Deja Moo: The feeling that you have heard this bull before.


  18. #53
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    https://assets.stuff.co.nz/video/pro...08528-chch.mp4

    Natural events such as earthquakes can do it too.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    https://assets.stuff.co.nz/video/pro...08528-chch.mp4

    Natural events such as earthquakes can do it too.

    Wow
    That reminds me of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina
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    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Wonder if any other country abandons so much and just leaves it. (Maybe Italy?) There was a half-finished skyscraper downtown where construction was stopped in the 1929 crash. The steel skeleton was still standing in the 1950s, finally torn down in the 1960s.
    Unfinished?
    It is written...


  21. #56
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    There's a quote from a painter I like "Painters alway only live half a life"
    Meaning there's never enough tim to 'finish' and there never would be.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.


  23. #58
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    just got back from a cross country drive... into some remote parts of Colorado. there are even abandoned rail roads apparently and the power poles along side are even fallen into disrepair... lots of stolen glass insulators but not all of them
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
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  24. #59
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I don't think that your question makes any sense or demonstrates any understanding of what I said.
    As far as understanding, I'll leave that discussion to you and Dan...but part of Dan's question is rooted in the relationship between Detroit and the neighboring municipalities.

    Jeff C

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Detroit didn't actually die. It was taken over by the city government, which threw the people out. The vacant land is owned by the city, which supports itself by taxing the land that it owns.
    And from what I read, is rapidly being gentrified by vastly overtaxing properties, often at 10X market value.
    .
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Ghost Fleet Mallows Bay Maryland



    I never knew about this. I'm astonished the government has never cleaned it up. I'm all for historical preservation and all, but this is just a junkyard obstructing and contaminating with rust, what could be a beautiful harbor.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    There is no doubt in my mind that cities built on old technology that fail to change will die. Detroit failed. They will be reborn when we adopt a new model for urban landscape and the technology that supports them. Not before.
    Detroit didn't fail because of technology, it failed because of poverty, fueled by corruption. When you look around the world at governments that succeed or fail, corruption is usually the deciding factor, not ideology. Because when not corrupt, they are honest about realities and adapt with pragmatic solutions, usually a la carte and not skewing completely one way or the other. Also, diversification of industries, good schools, careful urban planning, and building for the long term rather than a disposable mentality helps a whole lot. Do you think the governments and developers of today would set aside "unprofitable" land the size of Central Park in NYC? Not a chance. But think about NYC without it.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    This Old House just did a series on fixing up two homes in Detroit.

    http://www.pbs.org/show/old-house/episodes/

    Episodes 17 to 26 cover the Detroit redoes. It really sounds hopeful that Detroit is finding ways to get to a rebirth.
    Will

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Soviet abandoned towns and military facilities











    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    lots of you guys act like Detroit's decay is relatively new. Its been going on for 50 years. Knopfler wrote the song Telegraph Road about it in 1981. Read the lyrics, its not new.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    I noticed dozens of train engines parked off of I-10 in Arizona near Benson. Didn't get any pictures myself, but they can be seen on Google Maps...

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Em...4d-110.5103712



    Here's a local article about them...

    http://tucson.com/business/local/idl...f3ad54436.html

    Hundreds of locomotives are sitting idle in Southern Arizona — a stark illustration of the impact of the energy market’s recession on the railroad industry.Nationwide, about 1,400 Union Pacific locomotives — more than 16 percent of the company’s fleet — are parked in various staging areas off the main line.

    “The combination of an energy market recession, low commodity prices, the strength of the U.S. dollar and generally soft global economy, as well as muted U.S. retail demand, have all contributed to overall market weakness across many of our business lines,” said Tom Lange, assistant vice president of corporate communications for Union Pacific.
    Last edited by BrianW; 07-29-2017 at 01:24 AM.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    In 1982 a friend in Kansas City MO was a hot young architect working for a prestigious old firm. His specialty was remodeling shopping malls. The economy was in a prolonged recession, there was no new construction. My friend quickly burned out and longed to go do real art in New Mexico. However, the managing partners kept making him higher and higher offers to stay. He used to say the malls would be the ghost towns of the future. I didn't believe him them, it all came true. The last deluxe shopping centers built in the area have been drive up to the store and park developments, not unlike the earlier first shopping center, the 1920's Plaza, itself an imitation of a pedestrian friendly Spanish village.
    "Never get out of the boat." Apocalypse (Then)

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Washington County Mississippi had a population in 1960 of 78,638. In 2016, the estimated population was 47,231. In 2010, 71% of the population were black. That is a result of "every white family in the county held on average more than eighty slaves" by 1850. About 30% of the population is below the poverty line. There are many empty houses and buildings that are just rotting away with help from the termites. It is about 70 miles to the closest interstate highway. Most schools are failing. I don't think Trump is going to make it great again.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    As far as understanding, I'll leave that discussion to you and Dan...but part of Dan's question is rooted in the relationship between Detroit and the neighboring municipalities.

    Jeff C
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    Detroit didn't fail because of technology, it failed because of poverty, fueled by corruption. When you look around the world at governments that succeed or fail, corruption is usually the deciding factor, not ideology. Because when not corrupt, they are honest about realities and adapt with pragmatic solutions, usually a la carte and not skewing completely one way or the other. Also, diversification of industries, good schools, careful urban planning, and building for the long term rather than a disposable mentality helps a whole lot. Do you think the governments and developers of today would set aside "unprofitable" land the size of Central Park in NYC? Not a chance. But think about NYC without it.
    Don't you both think that the decline in steel and the automotive industries were instrumental in the decline of Detroit? Both of those American industries failed to keep up with foreign competition and development. The cities neighboring Detroit are not single-industry communities as far as I can see. Yes, Detroit has many problems, but they all grow worse when there are no jobs.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Urban Prairies & watching Cities Die.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Don't you both think that the decline in steel and the automotive industries were instrumental in the decline of Detroit? Both of those American industries failed to keep up with foreign competition and development. The cities neighboring Detroit are not single-industry communities as far as I can see. Yes, Detroit has many problems, but they all grow worse when there are no jobs.
    Of course...decline of industry was a huge factor, along with really terrible leadership going all the way back to the immediate post WWII era.

    Jeff C

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