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Thread: Building a William Atkin Perigee

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Cool, big time! Those sliding bed trucks are pretty handy if you have a rolling dolly cradle. I almost bought an ex-military 7.5ton flatbed with a Hiab crane going cheap. Usefull tool.....

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Quote Originally Posted by Steamboat View Post
    Thatís a lot of boat in 17 feet. Look great.
    Yes, she turned out even more substantial than I imagined, and since the cockpit was omitted and cabin extended, she feels quite roomy below. Very pleasing.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Cool, big time! Those sliding bed trucks are pretty handy if you have a rolling dolly cradle. I almost bought an ex-military 7.5ton flatbed with a Hiab crane going cheap. Usefull tool.....
    Having such a vehicle would open up lots of possibilities for 'trailer' sailing. Dolly cradles are easy to make for very heavy loads while also allowing the boat to be kept low to the ground. When looking for castor wheels for my cradle, it was interesting to discover a whole world of possibilities. They are cheap, come in a big range of sizes, have load capacities measured in tons, and can be had in materials designed for corrosive environments such as sea water... and, because they have little friction they allow even a weed like me to move heavy loads by muscle power only.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Small B R., I used to belong to the Mangles Bay yacht club, I had a "Diamond" there, we used side loading jinkers for them and that made floating on - off so easy. Do you have a name for your new baby yet?? by the looks you intend to do some serious sailing. People don't realise that the 100 fathom mark, continental shelf comes right into that coast in places so going coastal is also going deep sea and off shore whether you like it or not.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Side loading jinker sounds interesting... might explain some of the weird looking jinkers I've seen there. I have purchased a powerboat jinker and will do a few mods to make it suit my boat... actually that is the next priority as the club doesn't actually allow ongoing storage on cradles. In any case she needs a jinker if she is ever to get wet.

    No name yet... actually a short list of possibilities in mind but I've heard it is bad luck to reveal the name before the appropriate moment so I'm not taking any chances.

    I agree, there is some pretty heavy duty sailing available on our coast. Cape Leeuwin is only a hop step and a jump down the coast and it was in that area some years back my folkboat was knocked down by an unusually big wave in what was otherwise fairly mild conditions. Thought she was going right over, but she seemed to stop rolling when the mast hit the water. Certainly made me feel very awake for a good while after that.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Must be an Ozzy thing....what is a jinker? A cradle that is picked up by a large forklift?

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Ha ha, no a jinker is really just a boat trailer which is used for: moving a boat around a yard; launching from a ramp; launching from a beach; storage on hard stand; etc... but since a jinker is not normally intended to go on roads and highways it requires no registration and anything goes in terms of their design and construction. Many are of a dog trailer structure with steerable front wheels. They are also typically of very heavy construction and have axles bolted directly to the frame, no suspension. Beach launching jinkers may have exceptionally long draw bars to facilitate getting boats deep enough to float.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Ok. ^. they have a similar "boat-wagon" here. Can be used on the road as long as you do not drive more than 30kph. I went to see one last month, used a dropped front lorry axle and a RSJ steel beam. Due to the height of the tyres, the hull wont fit, and jacking it above with blocks just raises the depth of water needed to get the boat off. A pukka road trailer will cost about 6 times as much as a new constructed wagon, so you really need to use it for distant tows to pay off.




  9. #44
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Boat wagon seems like a sensible term, a bit more descriptive about the object than jinker. I was surprised to see that many of the jinkers at TCYC are entirely, or almost entirely, bolted together, even those for exceptionally large boats. It is also common to see cut away areas in frames to allow keels to sit down low. Hard to describe, so I'll try to get a few pics next I am down there. Jinkers here can not be taken on the road here... such is bureaucracy in oz.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    After very much use of a jack and lots of cribbing, my boat, still in her cradle, sits atop a jinker. The plan now is to deconstruct the cradle bit by bit, lowering her onto the jinker which will also undergo some modification on the fly to make it suit my boat. A bloke in the yard stopped by commenting that the jinker was perhaps originally a MacGregor trailer. I reckon he might be right, seems about the right dimensions. Glad I ended up with the trailer rather than the boat it was originally designed for.

    cradle_on_jinker.jpg

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    In the yard is a very big steel cruiser sitting on a jinker. Check out this detail:

    jinker_bolts1.jpg

    The wheels are from a semi trailer. I didn't take measurements but this thing is seriously massive. see the ladder for scale. Note the cross members are all bolted in place. Pretty impressive what kind of forces can be dealt with by bolts.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Those U bolts are pretty standard in Europe on road going trailers. All my 3.5ton road trailers had the axles fitted to the chassis in a similar way. Im hopefully picking up a Jinker over the weekend, just need to convert the tractor eye hitch to a 50mm ball so i can drag it home slowly.
    Not much ground clearance on that one, good for self launching and use on flat ground, cant imagine it going down any kind of ramp without grounding though. The trailer im going to look at has a dropped front truck axle, so despite having large wheels, the load spine is not that high.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    There is a reason why U-bolts are used to connect the axles, and it's actually an important safety consideration. They are required in order to be able to adjust towbar weight by moving the axle under the chasis. The trailer manufacturer and the vehicle manufacturer declare maximum weights allowed at the ball hitch, and the lower number has to be respected. The minimum number is also important and is usually defined by law as 4% of the total trailer weight. Best practice is to always use all of the available hitch weight.
    When the load can not be moved on the trailer bed to adjust drawbar weight (caravans, boat trailers, car trailers and empty trailers) the axle(s) have to be moved.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Those U bolts are pretty standard in Europe on road going trailers. All my 3.5ton road trailers had the axles fitted to the chassis in a similar way. Im hopefully picking up a Jinker over the weekend, just need to convert the tractor eye hitch to a 50mm ball so i can drag it home slowly.
    Not much ground clearance on that one, good for self launching and use on flat ground, cant imagine it going down any kind of ramp without grounding though. The trailer im going to look at has a dropped front truck axle, so despite having large wheels, the load spine is not that high.
    It would be interesting to see a pic of your jinker when you get it.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    There is a reason why U-bolts are used to connect the axles, and it's actually an important safety consideration. They are required in order to be able to adjust towbar weight by moving the axle under the chasis. The trailer manufacturer and the vehicle manufacturer declare maximum weights allowed at the ball hitch, and the lower number has to be respected. The minimum number is also important and is usually defined by law as 4% of the total trailer weight. Best practice is to always use all of the available hitch weight.
    When the load can not be moved on the trailer bed to adjust drawbar weight (caravans, boat trailers, car trailers and empty trailers) the axle(s) have to be moved.
    Now you mention it, I have seen a number of boat trailer manufacturers producing tandem axle trailers in which the entire axle and suspension assembly has its own sub frame held to the main frame by u-bolts.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Wanna see my jinker?

    PICT5865.jpg

    PICT5868.jpg

    Turned up first light this morning. The previous owner had a 150km round trip to deliver it at no extra cost as it was costing him money to store it. Basically a lorry front axle with a steel RSJ. I tried a frame pattern on it, and i need to either add some wheel spacers or block up off the spine 6in to clear the tyres. Be a while before thats an issue, but i can at least get the keel assembly constructed and know i can shift it around.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    ...
    I tried a frame pattern on it, and i need to either add some wheel spacers or block up off the spine 6in to clear the tyres...
    In the spirit of that things builder you just turn the wheels inside out, the rim offset gives you all the clearance you need.
    I do hope that after you build the boat you take a weekend to turn it into a proper tilting boat trailer. No welding required, just some U bolts and straight stock.
    That axle looks right out of a prewar car or light truck, maybe it's worth something on the classic car market.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Or if there is more dead rise forward perhaps load the boat stern first? Nice Jinker! Incidentally I have an axle in my yard which looks remarkably similar to yours. I used it to support my 'crucible' when melting 700kg of lead for my keel. The axle is cast iron and has mounting bolt holes same configuration as yours.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    In the spirit of that things builder you just turn the wheels inside out, the rim offset gives you all the clearance you need.
    I do hope that after you build the boat you take a weekend to turn it into a proper tilting boat trailer. No welding required, just some U bolts and straight stock.
    That axle looks right out of a prewar car or light truck, maybe it's worth something on the classic car market.
    Its a truck front axle. Cast iron. Im not sure the welds are 100%, but i have time to go through it. The reverse of the wheels is the obvious answer as long as the track is under 2,5m wide. There some stuff left on the hubs that can be cut off, and its in serious need of wire brushing and paint. The local ramp is long enough i should be able to float on and off without issue, but i will need to add some guide posts and a winch post.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock View Post
    Or if there is more dead rise forward perhaps load the boat stern first? Nice Jinker! Incidentally I have an axle in my yard which looks remarkably similar to yours. I used it to support my 'crucible' when melting 700kg of lead for my keel. The axle is cast iron and has mounting bolt holes same configuration as yours.
    I took a half pattern down when i went to look at it, the widest midship point, if it went on stern first or bow first, there would still be the need to get that part between the wheels, unless i shift the axle forward. As is, the axle would be under the aft end of the ballast stub with the engine above. There is already a 10ft overhang past the axle, so if i shift the axle forward, i might run into problems with the aft projection swinging into cars and pedestrians on my way through town, where there is some 90 degree turns to be made. If i recall, 3m/10ft- was considered the maximum beyond the axle. There is also the issue of nose weight, but behind a tractor, not such an issue and at low speed. I only have to drive 5km.
    I recall a mate who extended the bed on an old Bedford TK military truck he loaded with people in London on an overland Africa trip. He was in Morrocco when he opened up 3 cars like sardine cans attempting a tight turn, that extra few feet can be a problem!

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Cast iron axle with welded on mild steel "frame"? And you want to trust your boat to that? I would not trust those welds even if I knew that the axle is some sort of ductile iron instead of grey cast iron.
    Cut those welds off and buy some u-bolts. The axle was designed to take weight on the leaf spring mounting pads. Use them to bolt two longitudinal bars. Use U-bolts to connect two (or more) perpendiculars on the longitudinals, and bolt the drawbar to these. Now you have a stiff ladder frame and you can adjust length and weight distribution. Keel rolls, winch post, side supports, etc. all get bolted on where needed. Best thing is you can reconfigure the trailer if you need to transport another boat, or dissasemble it for storage.
    You can get longer than 3m after the axle, there is no legal limit that I know of.
    If you tow with a tractor tongue weight is usually not a problem (depends on the actual tractor) but the drawbar might become one. It needs to be able to take the weight. That's another argument to use a ladder frame.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    There is a legal maximum of 4m beyond the turning radius/axle. I assume UK rules would be in harmony of those in the EU. No, i would not trust my boat to it as it is, but i paid less for it than the quote for a shorter bit of RSJ.The previous owner had a 4.5ton boat on it, and im surprised the axle survived having all that weight focused on the centreline. The original spring mounts i am intending to use, if i do not replace the entire axle with a new one with much lower profile wheels. 99% of the boat is still on paper, so i have time to ponder options. If i could afford it, i would have just ordered a new one of these,



    But despite requiring some extra work, the one i bought was 10% of the new price, us poor people have to wait for bargains and adapt in order to get the job done.

    Is she down on that jinker yet?

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    The jinker I bought was dirt cheap, which was a close match to my budget. But, alas as you say, adaptation is the order of the day, so I have spent the last few days fabricating some steel parts to bolt new cross members where I need them. Hope to get back to the boat yard next week to see what progress I can make on the 'adaptation'.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Complete EU harmonisation is a myth. While most states have maximum dimensions of 2,55m wide, 12m long for the trailer and 18,75m overall rig lenght, there are exceptions. GB has 7m lenght without drawbar for the trailer and 18,75m total rig length. Sweden is 2,60m wide, no maximum trailer lenght and 24m total rig lenght. The Netherlands allow a 3m load on a 2,55m trailer without special permits, but only 18m total rig lenght and they have roads were only 2,2m wide trailers are allowed. Germany allows overhangs to 20,75m and also sells cheap yearly permits for up to 3m widths (as do other states). And so on. Hope to see the new boat on the remade trailer.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Building a William Atkin Perigee

    Then you shall... pictures will magically appear in this thread just as soon as I get the job done. In the meantime I have become distracted by working on her boom and gaff. They'll get a coat of epoxy tomorrow. In fact once the spars are finished the ship's carpenter will be out of a job as there is no further wood butchering needed (on this project). All remaining work is for the able seaman being standing and running rigging... and then... it will be time to find out if she floats right side up. Eeeek!

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