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Thread: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    i just open the front doors of the shed and the SE opening windows to create a venturi effect. my nose filters the rest...

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Some species of dust are very hard on the schnoz, and the lungs. Some are even carcinogenic. But air filters are only a tiny little swipe at the very last of the fines - useful only if your other dust collection is up to snuff. Otherwise, quickly overwhelmed and made useless.
    I sanded a fair amount of Australian rosewood at one stage, now that really is a reason to either have perfect dust extraction and filtration or something like that Air Hat of mine.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    I could never rely on personal protection equipment. not only do i hate wearing stuff like that but I'm back and forth to the saw etc. and would only ever take the time to put on all that gear if I was doing a big run, which isn't very often. I just have, actually two, exhaust fans just above the dust extractor so when the saw or other machinery goes on, the extractor and exhaust fans go on too and the big and little dust is whisked away from me. Of course I still get some dust but really not a lot. The shed door is always open and the extraction takes dust the other way out.

    Rick

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    I was producing clouds of very fine sander dust perhaps 24 hours a week while making boxes like this, the Air Hat was brilliant ! I'd finish the day with layers of dust on my shoulders and none in my nose at all. I was using a variety of different sanding machines, on some I could collect the dust, on others it was nearly impossible.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I was producing clouds of very fine sander dust perhaps 24 hours a week while making boxes like this, the Air Hat was brilliant ! I'd finish the day with layers of dust on my shoulders and none in my nose at all. I was using a variety of different sanding machines, on some I could collect the dust, on others it was nearly impossible.

    Horses for courses. Your situation is probably a bit atypical in the proportion of sanding that would be hard to capture at the source.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    A few months ago I joined a local woodworkers and woodturners guild.
    And yes , I've noticed if the dust extraction isn't on and functioning properly , its not pleasant , particularly with some of the woods.
    I am now in a position that I will be able to set up my own workshop to make small boats , mainly SOF , and I want to set up the best dust extraction possible.
    I mentioned it to one of the members , his comment related to explosions in the system , if not set up right.
    Since he was an engineer , and set up numerous workshops , I think I'm going to have to have a long talk with him.
    But this thread is a good start , thanks Greg.
    Regards Rob J.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    I did an internet search , and came across this http://www.artofwoodshopdesign.com/d...gs-done-right/ .
    I don't know if it ias doable , or affordable , in Australia.
    Rob J.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    At the moment I’ve just joined everything with duct tape while I mess with tool positions and what works best
    nothing so permanent as a good temporary repair




    so? did you bond and ground the pvc???

    or do you take static electricity buildup and subsequent explosion of dust collection system to be myth?

    semi serious question. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    nothing so permanent as a good temporary repair




    so? did you bond and ground the pvc???

    or do you take static electricity buildup and subsequent explosion of dust collection system to be myth?

    semi serious question. . .
    I heard that using Aluminum tape, as in duct work, wrapped in a spiral around each joint of pipe, will drain the static electricity, if properly grounded.


    Explosions on systems of the size we're typically talking about are uncommon, I would think, but PVC is a pretty decent capacitor, and with a hundred pounds of it in play . . . I've heard of one guy who caught a discharge from an overhead, PVC, dust collection line that rendered him comatose for an hour.

    Like getting hit by lightening.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Explosions on systems of the size we're typically talking about are uncommon, I would think
    I wish I could find and post Robb White's dust extractor explosion and fire story here. Hilariously well told, and maybe even probably partially true. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    nothing so permanent as a good temporary repair




    so? did you bond and ground the pvc???

    or do you take static electricity buildup and subsequent explosion of dust collection system to be myth?

    semi serious question. . .

    see post #13 Paul
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Regardless of how well the system may be earthed as it is, this mess may have done just as good a job of cooking my shed as a static explosion if I’d left it any longer......

    I’d checked the bag late last week and it was about a third full, but sometime since then it’s come adrift from the frame and everything since then has been emptying into the little lean-too shed that I have the dust collector stored in.

    I’m creating a lot of dust at the moment so have been checking it reasonably regularly, just as well I didn’t leave it any longer as any more build up around the motor may have been very messy - this lot plus what did actually make it into the bag is about 4 days worth as I’d not done anything with it over the weekend:

    IMG_9937.jpg

    IMG_9938.jpg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    You may well have been lucky Greg !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by snaildrake View Post
    That's a serious run of pipe. Do you notice static buildup?

    I've been using 4"/100mm plastic pipe for 10+ years with good success for a Grizzly (US) 220v collector, though I cluster my machines and only have about 15' of pipe running along the floor.

    One upgrade I found very worthwhile was to use metal blast gates. Better fit, less clogging, more complete sealing when closed. More expensive of course, but nothing compared to boats ;-).

    Cherss, Dan
    I've worked in the sawmilling and woodprocessing machinery game most of my life, and dust extraction is a key part of that. To give you an idea, a standard 4 side planer moulder will need about 12000 cubic feet a minute of airflow, thats about a 40 hp motor on a 4ft fan. If you leave a spanner on the planer bed when the suction is turned on, its gone!
    But something common to all extraction systems, is static electricity build up. Normally, with metal ducting that can be earthed, but with plastic, especially pvc pipe, its an issue. We would normally run a length of braided copper strap through the main duct line and earth that.
    Note that the problem is much worse where a sander is being used, or where mdf is being cut, the resulting powder is explosive when mixed with air and the static electricity can create enough of a spark to set it off.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Just a thought for those in small workshops, the standard "bag" type dust extractors collect the visible debris from saws and planers ok, but the filter material is not very effective at collecting the very fine dust, and its that that damages ones lungs, it hangs in the air for ages and is hard to see. If you are using or going to use one of these, put it in a little house outside your shop, ventilate it well and check it regularly.
    Gregs little shed looks good apart from the issue of the bag coming off, but having it in a steel shed outside is ideal.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    John do you think my version of earthing, with the PVC ducting held in place by brackets with the inside surfaces bared to metal and with some parts of the PVC hard against the metal shed framing, is sufficient earthing? It’s that time of year here where everything is very dry and everything gets a static build up - (i.e. my dog keeps getting zapped from her dog bed blankets and getting in and out of the car), but I’ve not been able to detect any sort off static build up in/on the PVC.

    With the previous very temporary arrangement that I had with much longer corrugated flexi pipe runs I could see dust cling to the outside of the short lengths of PVC that I had in the system and I could hold a bit of paper to it to test and see the magnetism of the static, as it is right now I’m not seeing that but I’ve remained conscious of Paul’s early warnings so have been keeping an eye on it and wondering if it needs more.

    Aside from that, I think an improvement to my set up would be to have a small window from the main shed into the dust shed (next to the power switch which is in the main shed) to keep a much more regular and convenient eye on things. There’s a certain element or risk of "out of sight out of mind” the way I have it at the moment.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    John do you think my version of earthing, with the PVC ducting held in place by brackets with the inside surfaces bared to metal and with some parts of the PVC hard against the metal shed framing, is sufficient earthing? It’s that time of year here where everything is very dry and everything gets a static build up - (i.e. my dog keeps getting zapped from her dog bed blankets and getting in and out of the car), but I’ve not been able to detect any sort off static build up in/on the PVC.

    With the previous very temporary arrangement that I had with much longer corrugated flexi pipe runs I could see dust cling to the outside of the short lengths of PVC that I had in the system and I could hold a bit of paper to it to test and see the magnetism of the static, as it is right now I’m not seeing that but I’ve remained conscious of Paul’s early warnings so have been keeping an eye on it and wondering if it needs more.

    Aside from that, I think an improvement to my set up would be to have a small window from the main shed into the dust shed (next to the power switch which is in the main shed) to keep a much more regular and convenient eye on things. There’s a certain element or risk of "out of sight out of mind” the way I have it at the moment.
    I'm inclined to think that the earthing needs to be inside. Patches of bare metal inside the duct, and you could do that by putting strips of "tin" in through the joints as they're pressed together, then earthing those might be good. I've seen metal ducting earthed, big metal ducting has its own earth strips inside, ( plus explosion activated water curtains in very long runs, but thats overkill in small systems) but bear in mind that PVC is a pretty good insulator and its on the inside surface that the charge builds up.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    I'm inclined to think that the earthing needs to be inside. Patches of bare metal inside the duct, and you could do that by putting strips of "tin" in through the joints as they're pressed together, then earthing those might be good. I've seen metal ducting earthed, big metal ducting has its own earth strips inside, ( plus explosion activated water curtains in very long runs, but thats overkill in small systems) but bear in mind that PVC is a pretty good insulator and its on the inside surface that the charge builds up.

    John Welsford
    In fact I had not been bearing that in mind at all - and it’s so obvious - doh!!! That changes my thinking on this entirely and suggests that my straps and so on are doing diddly-squat in terms of earthing the system....... I’ll fix that
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Also bear in mind that if your inside straps get loose,they can cause a great deal of damage to the fan.
    They also tend to catch splinters and fibres, causing clogs.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

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