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Thread: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

  1. #1
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    Default Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    I spent a day last week upgrading my dust extraction from all 100mm corrugated flex-pipe stuff to a main line of 150mm PVC pipe, sub-lines of 100mm PVC pipe and I have kept the flex-pipe lengths from the PVC to the tools to the minimum lengths that will work.

    Blast gates on all outlets and shallow bends throughout, rather than 90deg bends.

    At the moment I’ve just joined everything with duct tape while I mess with tool positions and what works best, but I reckon it’s fair to say that this upgrade has at least doubled the suction at the tool end - I am very pleased with it:

    [IMG]IMG_9474 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Larks

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    That sucks.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    That sucks.
    completely
    Larks

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Your lungs will thank you.
    Size wise 150mm flows double what 100mm does. The rest is gravy.
    Avoid using too long screws for more permanent assembly. Especially on the outsides of corners and the bottom side of the pipe.
    They catch fibres,splinters and the soft skin on the back of your hand when you clear the splinters and fibres.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    What size dust extraction unit do you use Greg ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    What size dust extraction unit do you use Greg ?
    Just a 2hp Carbatec one that I picked up second hand when I was at Stella Marine. Did the job reasonably well as it was before anyway but is so much better now. As big as I could need with only one tool operating at a time and blast gates on everything.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Williamson View Post
    Your lungs will thank you.
    Size wise 150mm flows double what 100mm does. The rest is gravy.
    Avoid using too long screws for more permanent assembly. Especially on the outsides of corners and the bottom side of the pipe.
    They catch fibres,splinters and the soft skin on the back of your hand when you clear the splinters and fibres.
    R
    No screws Ron, if/when I make it more permanent it will be with PVC pipe glue.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    I need a better one too but haven't got sufficient power in the shed to run both a machine and a 2 hp dust extractor.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    That's a serious run of pipe. Do you notice static buildup?

    I've been using 4"/100mm plastic pipe for 10+ years with good success for a Grizzly (US) 220v collector, though I cluster my machines and only have about 15' of pipe running along the floor.

    One upgrade I found very worthwhile was to use metal blast gates. Better fit, less clogging, more complete sealing when closed. More expensive of course, but nothing compared to boats ;-).

    Cherss, Dan

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Being retired from the HVAC business one would think that I would have one of the most amazing up-to-date dust collection systems there is but I don't, I basically gave up on 2 horsepower unit, metal ductwork etc, had it all set up for a few years when my son was he re, collecting lots of dust and shavings,. Now, Cyclone systems are all the rage, rightfully so because they work very very well!!

    My trouble is with a shop in the basement of an old house the dust is still incredible fans blowing air to the outside in the summer just draw the air conditioning out and heat in winter,.

    I know it's not likely to happen on a residential or small shop system but using plastic pipe does generate static I highly recommend grounding everything!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    I second the grounding. The last thing you want is a dust explosion.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    You should see a huge improvement just by changing from corrugated pipe.I measured airspeed on an extractor system a few years ago and it was reduced to half by five metres of four inch corrugated hose.

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Re grounding/earthing against static build up - I have metal straps, albeit vinyl coated but sanded to metal inside with the idea of them acting as earth straps, holding the pipe in place screwed to the metal frame of the shed and, as can be seen in the photo, the main PVC line is pulled hard against the centre steel truss of the shed.

    I’d have thought that would be sufficient earthing but I’d be interested in an opinion from someone who knows more about this stuff than me.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    You should see a huge improvement just by changing from corrugated pipe.I measured airspeed on an extractor system a few years ago and it was reduced to half by five metres of four inch corrugated hose.
    As I said in the OP John, it’s easily twice as effective at the tool end now.

    It’s the sort of upgrade that I’d recommend worth while for anyone else who may have been considering it.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
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    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Re grounding/earthing against static build up - I have metal straps, albeit vinyl coated but sanded to metal inside with the idea of them acting as earth straps, holding the pipe in place screwed to the metal frame of the shed and, as can be seen in the photo, the main PVC line is pulled hard against the centre steel truss of the shed.

    I’d have thought that would be sufficient earthing but I’d be interested in an opinion from someone who knows more about this stuff than me.
    We used plastic pipe with random incidental metal grounding points for several years.
    It dissipated static if it wasn't winter(dry air),but collected airborne dust on the outside,constantly.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    5 hp, if only.... I had a shop that was in actual use and at least breaking even LOL

    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    I don't think there's ever been an instance of a home dust extraction system exploding with plastic pipe. It's a theoretical risk but just doesn't happen.

    Greg, those plastic gates work but fall apart. Carbatec shouldn't sell them. They do sell some better ones. I suggest buying a couple of the better ones and keeping them to use when the others fail. They only fail when it's inconvenient, as you know. I've had about three of the plastic ones fall apart and about three that just hang in.

    I like your system, a lot.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Typical dust extraction systems are pretty unhealthy. They keep the place tidy but don't trap the fine particles that do the damage. You can get filters and for most workshops, that's the best solution. But if you live in a bushy area, another option is to install an exhaust fan near your dust extractor to expel the floating, fine dust. Once it's outside, it settles and dissipates, doing no harm. This is what I have and it works well. I use an industrial exhaust fan, not a plastic thing from Bunnings but really, the thing from Bunnings would work too.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Typical dust extraction systems are pretty unhealthy. They keep the place tidy but don't trap the fine particles that do the damage. You can get filters and for most workshops, that's the best solution. But if you live in a bushy area, another option is to install an exhaust fan near your dust extractor to expel the floating, fine dust. Once it's outside, it settles and dissipates, doing no harm. This is what I have and it works well. I use an industrial exhaust fan, not a plastic thing from Bunnings but really, the thing from Bunnings would work too.

    Rick
    Good advice Rick, I’ll do that - likewise with the blast gates, I’d bought those plastic ones a while ago and hadn’t set them all up, but I see Carbatec do the metal ones so might grab a few of them:


    I’ve also seen some ply ones that guys have made up on Pinterest and might make one up to see how effective they are.



    Last edited by Larks; 07-23-2017 at 06:24 PM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    That set-up Denise posted is sporting a pleated filter which does a much better job of filtering out the fine particles than the usual cloth bag filters.

    Nice set-up, Larks, those smooth pipes should make a big difference.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Ply ones should be good! I might make some too.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I don't think there's ever been an instance of a home dust extraction system exploding with plastic pipe. It's a theoretical risk but just doesn't happen.

    Greg, those plastic gates work but fall apart. Carbatec shouldn't sell them. They do sell some better ones. I suggest buying a couple of the better ones and keeping them to use when the others fail. They only fail when it's inconvenient, as you know. I've had about three of the plastic ones fall apart and about three that just hang in.

    I like your system, a lot.

    Rick
    Well, I'm familiar with two shops in the NW that burned, and the issues was diagnosed as ungrounded dust collection. But I've sure seen a lot of systems that weren't grounded function without problems. Including most of mine. I don't regard it as much of a hazard, but it's one of those personal decisions...
    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Home workshops?

    Rick

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Home workshops?

    Rick
    One commercial cabinet shop, one home boatshop. Don't know if the fire investigators got it right... but that was the official verdict.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement



    I made a series of those from ply and they worked very well and the price was right.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    One commercial cabinet shop, one home boatshop. Don't know if the fire investigators got it right... but that was the official verdict.
    Thanks, David.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    I have the luxury, in fine weather, of wheeling my small machinery outside to work. It's an agricultural shed with 3 big sliding doors. But I will have to get more serious soon. I also have a 3ft high speed pedestal fan as an extractor that I hope removes much of the fine stuff from the air in the shop.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    My shed is big and open on 2 sides, my dust extraction is confined to my table saw and I wear a dust mask ( Racal Airhat) when using the thicknesser. Not ideal but I don't have sufficient amps available to run a 2 hp motor on a machine and a decent size extractor as well. The table saw has a really good home built cyclone attached.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    My shed is big and open on 2 sides, my dust extraction is confined to my table saw and I wear a dust mask ( Racal Airhat) when using the thicknesser.
    Does your thicknesser produce much dust?
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    Does your thicknesser produce much dust?
    I had that thought as well. It's gonna produce some, of course. But jointers and planers - if adequately sharp - shouldn't produce a lot of dust.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    They don't produce much dust but they produce an awful lot of shavings. I have a setup similar to Greg's although his looks more efficient. Most of the time it copes with the bucketloads of shavings from my 20" thicknesser but occasionaly the shavings clog up and I get a spray of shavings and dust out the front of the thicknesser. It's easilyvresolved as I can separate components and clear the blockage, as Greg will be able to do. I thought of putting some sort of grate in a convenient spot but this would just a annoy me over time so I just keep some joints loose. I think Greg's approach of leaving it all portable until he sees where any problems might be, is smart. Even then, I'd suggest keeping some joints loose, just in case.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    Does your thicknesser produce much dust?
    Yes, more shavings of course but there is a lot of dust. This perhaps the best tool I own, I'm sure I'd have emphysema without it.\

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    We've got runs of plastic pipe and have metal gates in the runs. The metal gates are grounded to runs of twisted copper wire. The wire originally was just attached to the gates and then to an adjacent ground point, but we accumulated dust on the outside of the pipe. We solved it by wrapping the copper wire around the pipe in a fairly close spiral (every 3" or so), but had to buy a good size spool of wire for a relatively short run of dust collection. We've also got an air filter as well as the dust collector system.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  34. #34
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    I think the air filter is going to be a must. I hadn’t thought about it until Rick mentioned it because I tend to leave the shed doors open anyway, but I’ve been sanding Australian red cedar this morning and it is pretty brutal on the various sniffer organs
    Larks

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Dust extraction upgrade success - a vast improvement

    Some species of dust are very hard on the schnoz, and the lungs. Some are even carcinogenic. But air filters are only a tiny little swipe at the very last of the fines - useful only if your other dust collection is up to snuff. Otherwise, quickly overwhelmed and made useless.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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