Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: Stuffing Box Dilemma

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    103

    Default Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Pulled my boat yesterday after inspecting the stuffing box hose and finding a 2 inch tear in the underside.
    I got the shaft disconnected, and the flange semi loose, but am having trouble with what appears to be a gear wheel that rests between the stuffing gland and the prop flange.
    To make matters worse, it's a Borg Warner V-Drive with the shaft going through a floor timber. It couldn't be any tighter
    Any suggestions on where to go from here?
    Oh, and the gear must have been originally put on after the prop shaft was fed through the floor timber hole, so it gets hung up if I try to back the shaft out.
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4301/3...1eb188f3_b.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4328/3...9fa2953a_b.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4329/3...95b28b99_b.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    13,163

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma


    What cha recon that gear is supposed to be for?
    Run a chain gizmo or maybe just a safety to prevent the shaft from going bye bye in reverse?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    13,163

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    The tear is in the rubber hose? That hose has to be strong re enforced stuff. When the gland gets tight /hot/dry, it gets a twisting torque applied to it.
    Can you get in there for more pics?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    11,759

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    I think I know what you are thinking. Engine out, rudder off, and go from there. I think you might be right too.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post

    What cha recon that gear is supposed to be for?
    Run a chain gizmo or maybe just a safety to prevent the shaft from going bye bye in reverse?
    I think the PO put it on there as a saftey collar. I don't see evidence of anything ever running off of it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I think I know what you are thinking. Engine out, rudder off, and go from there. I think you might be right too.
    Got the rudder off already. Hoping I don't have to jerk the engine....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    17,321

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    The toothed wheel could be for a magnetic proximity sensor that measures the shaft speed.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,491

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    With the caveat that I am not a marine mechanic so this suggestion could be a bad idea for reasons that I'm not aware of, that gear has to be held on with a set screw or press fit. My bet is press fit but I'd try to poke around and see if there is a screw holding it to the shaft to make sure. Once you are sure that it's free to move, I'd put a slide hammer on the end of the shaft and try to pull it out that way. The gear should press off against the timber holding the packing gland. All this assumes, of course, that the shaft coupling is completely disconnected from the v-drive and also from the shaft, so that it can slide off as well.

    If the hole in the timber is large enough that the gear might go into it rather than pressing off the shaft, you might wedge or clamp something behind the gear to provide a surface for it to bear on while you are pulling the shaft.
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    13,163

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma


    If that gear has no purpose, disappear it.
    This is on your Monk cruiser?
    Get some Kroil in there , open the split coupling a bit with a wee steel wedge. Maybe heat on the toothed gear.
    I might be very tempted to re engineer the area ,if a floor is in the way .
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 07-22-2017 at 09:40 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    17,321

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Sometimes...
    There will be a fastener inside the coupling, threaded to the shaft to retain the shaft in reverse.
    Actually this is considered "good practice" and larger vessels are often fitted with this detail, or should be. It is usually custom, and could be a tapered and keyed assembly with a nut or a bolt and washer with a shallow counterbore in the coupling.
    You may have to shift the engine forward to get a good look at this.
    A "proper" shaft and coupling installation is a light press fit and will always require a puller to remove the coupling. The flanges are accurate and precise, hammer work right there can damage a good fit.

    Best of luck!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
    Posts
    1,963

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    never... never ever use slide hammers or hammers to drive or pull shafts from transmissions. Can't see enough of the bilge to suggest a "plan" But it doesn't look easy no matter what. Costs being high to very high.. cutting the shaft and replacing it may be the "easy" way

    I had a PSS dripless.. for 8 years. never a drop.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,491

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Sometimes...
    There will be a fastener inside the coupling, threaded to the shaft to retain the shaft in reverse.
    Actually this is considered "good practice" and larger vessels are often fitted with this detail, or should be. It is usually custom, and could be a tapered and keyed assembly with a nut or a bolt and washer with a shallow counterbore in the coupling.
    You may have to shift the engine forward to get a good look at this.
    A "proper" shaft and coupling installation is a light press fit and will always require a puller to remove the coupling. The flanges are accurate and precise, hammer work right there can damage a good fit.

    Best of luck!

    Good points. I should have added:

    - Don't hammer, pry or otherwise apply force to the coupler flanges at all.

    - If you do try the slide hammer, it should require only light force to move the gear and coupler. If you can't do it with moderate taps then I would pull the engine rather than potentially damaging the shaft, coupler, packing gland, stuffing box, cutlass bearing, struts, etc...

    As for the fastener inside the coupling... Could be. My bet is no - that seems like a pretty light-duty, clamp-on only coupling. Does it even have a set screw? But definitely something to be careful of. Light taps and don't push it if the coupling or the gear are reluctant to move.
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,491

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    never... never ever use slide hammers or hammers to drive or pull shafts from transmissions. Can't see enough of the bilge to suggest a "plan" But it doesn't look easy no matter what. Costs being high to very high.. cutting the shaft and replacing it may be the "easy" way

    I had a PSS dripless.. for 8 years. never a drop.
    Denise, also a good point. To be clear, I was not suggesting that any force should be applied to the v-drive itself! Definitely a no-no. All of the force here should be pressing on the gear and the coupling in a straight line along the shaft. No force on any mechanical bits. Re: cutting the shaft... Maybe but I don't see how that even solves the problem? You could cut the shaft aft of the packing gland but you would still be left with a section of shaft between the v-drive and the gland that you would not be able to remove without pulling the engine.
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
    Posts
    1,963

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Not my call.. only suggestions more then one cut can be made. what about the timber/rib/sleeper the shaft passes through? cant that be cut?

    But, back to shaft pulling, maybe the gear which appears to be steel can be sliced with a cut off wheel and split with no damage to the shaft? Maybe the clamping hub of the flange will loosen and all will go well. then you find out out you need a shaft anyway! (things I learned from 10 years in a "working yard" yacht club)
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    13,163

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Or try slamming her in reverse real hard, see if it actually works.
    (kidding there ha ha )

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Thank you for all of the suggestions.
    I'm going to give it another go this weekend.
    To answer a few concerns; yes I removed the small reverse set screw on the shaft flange. I also have not done any pounding on the transmission flange.
    I was able to slide the shaft flange off about 1 inch, but the gear is hard up against the floor timber and the flange is hard up against the transmission flange.
    I may try cutting the gear down with a dremel wheel enough to get it through the hole in the floor timber. This would give me enough working room to slide the shaft flange the rest of the way off.
    My other option would be to cut the flange off, giving me access to the gear, which I coild then cut off.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
    Posts
    1,963

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Or try slamming her in reverse real hard, see if it actually works.
    (kidding there ha ha )
    where are those crab pot markers when you need them?
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    La Conner, WA
    Posts
    123

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    never... never ever use slide hammers or hammers to drive or pull shafts from transmissions. Can't see enough of the bilge to suggest a "plan" But it doesn't look easy no matter what. Costs being high to very high.. cutting the shaft and replacing it may be the "easy" way

    I had a PSS dripless.. for 8 years. never a drop.
    There are really only two ways to pull a shaft out of a coupling- slide hammer, or unbolting the shaft coupling and placing a socket slightly smaller than the shaft diameter and then applying force with longer coupling bolts. The first is far and away the most common and most practical. The second method can easily lead to damage to the two coupling flanges, to say nothing of adding man hours to the job.
    The first order of business with either method is to be sure that you have removed whatever was used to prevent the shaft walking out in reverse. That can range from a thru bolt, to set bolts at ninety degrees to each other, to a taper pin, to coupling bolts that serve to clamp the coupling to the shaft, but additionally have had a partial bolt diameter machined across the shaft.
    Attaching a slide hammer to the end of the shaft is the way to go, and usually the only problem is the flexing of the engine mounts reducing the pulling power, that and pinching your flesh between the slide and its shaft.
    I did forget he Marine Hardware coupling that Bayliner used which has a taper machined at the forward end of the shaft mating into the coupling itself. These are a true pain in the neck as you have to split the coupling from the transmission or remove the large nylock at the forward end of the shaft.
    Sometimes no amount of brute force or heat to the coupling will make it come loose in which case the shaft will have to be cut.
    I have only seen a gear like you have pictured on larger trawler yachts for engaging a Get Home Drive, I also cannot see any of the usual devices in your coupling to prevent the shaft from coming out in reverse? I would bet a previous owner had tha happen and somebody came up with this gear thing ahead of the floor timber to prevent it happening again.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    5,190

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    I see your delema and truely understand your pain. Sorry to say I have nothing more to offer. (V-drives can be a real pain with stuff like this.)

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Newport News, VA
    Posts
    2,519

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Schweiss View Post
    There are really only two ways to pull a shaft out of a coupling- slide hammer, or unbolting the shaft coupling and placing a socket slightly smaller than the shaft diameter and then applying force with longer coupling bolts. The first is far and away the most common and most practical. The second method can easily lead to damage to the two coupling flanges, to say nothing of adding man hours to the job.
    The first order of business with either method is to be sure that you have removed whatever was used to prevent the shaft walking out in reverse. That can range from a thru bolt, to set bolts at ninety degrees to each other, to a taper pin, to coupling bolts that serve to clamp the coupling to the shaft, but additionally have had a partial bolt diameter machined across the shaft.
    Attaching a slide hammer to the end of the shaft is the way to go, and usually the only problem is the flexing of the engine mounts reducing the pulling power, that and pinching your flesh between the slide and its shaft.
    I did forget he Marine Hardware coupling that Bayliner used which has a taper machined at the forward end of the shaft mating into the coupling itself. These are a true pain in the neck as you have to split the coupling from the transmission or remove the large nylock at the forward end of the shaft.
    Sometimes no amount of brute force or heat to the coupling will make it come loose in which case the shaft will have to be cut.
    I have only seen a gear like you have pictured on larger trawler yachts for engaging a Get Home Drive, I also cannot see any of the usual devices in your coupling to prevent the shaft from coming out in reverse? I would bet a previous owner had tha happen and somebody came up with this gear thing ahead of the floor timber to prevent it happening again.
    'Sometimes no amount of brute force or heat to the coupling will make it come loose in which case the shaft will have to be cut.'
    That is the easy way out.
    Cut-grind across the coupling and split it off the shaft. I have done this once, my shaft was saved. The hardened bolt broke off in the coupling.
    It is more work and time that yard mechanics don't want to put into a job, they would rather you buy a new coupling and a new shaft.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Newport News, VA
    Posts
    2,519

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by tomtoledo View Post
    Thank you for all of the suggestions.
    I'm going to give it another go this weekend.
    To answer a few concerns; yes I removed the small reverse set screw on the shaft flange. I also have not done any pounding on the transmission flange.
    I was able to slide the shaft flange off about 1 inch, but the gear is hard up against the floor timber and the flange is hard up against the transmission flange.
    I may try cutting the gear down with a dremel wheel enough to get it through the hole in the floor timber. This would give me enough working room to slide the shaft flange the rest of the way off.
    My other option would be to cut the flange off, giving me access to the gear, which I coild then cut off.
    Maybe a sawzall can get in there to slice off that weird gear. You may be able to cut very close to the shaft, then use a chisel to split it open away from the shaft so it can slide. Perhaps cut on both sides to weaken it.
    Sawzall easily cuts metals.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    181

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    If you have to cut the Dremel with a cutoff wheel is best for confined spaces and cuts like a big angle grinder.
    Check if you can get the shaft out if you unbolt the transmission. Beeing a V drive it sits at the front and in some installations the shaft clears the front of the motor.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Helensburgh NSW
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    What a weird gear thingy, maybe someones 'I need a 10mm spacer, whats in my tool box"?
    “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge” - Charles Darwin (1809–1882)

    Nutshell Pram Build pictures ; https://photos.app.goo.gl/1GdBcckcgBAWsbVg1

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Kailua, HI
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Could it have been a shaft brake?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Norwalk CT
    Posts
    662

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    You are far less likely to do any damage by using a spacer like a small socket and longer bomts to force the shaft out of the coupling than you are with a slide hammer.

    Some carefully applied heat and gradual torquing of the bolts in an X pattern will budge even the most stubborn couplings without all the attendant shock and forces applied to engine mounts, transmission etc from the slide hammer

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
    Posts
    1,963

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Spacer between the flanges and bolts works very very well did that many years ago on my boat, patiently waiting for an update from the OP,
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    17,321

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    1,312

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    That gear does nothing? Split it off with a cutting wheel.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Stuffing Box Dilemma

    Looks cast irony like? In which case, it's fragile. A cut and wedge will get a split. BTW ,big screwdrivers can be handy wedges.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •