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Thread: How to restore this rot?

  1. #71
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joolz View Post
    Ok, will do that. Bought a small roller that I think would work nicely to press against the plastic (which I also plan to use on the sides to ensure all is neat and tidy). Else I'll use a small scraper to squeeze out the excess resin and ensure all is compressed nicely. But how long do I wait till I pull the plastic off? I'd think that waiting till the epoxy cures would make it impossible to pull it off, or is this not the case?
    Just apply some pressure through the plastic with the squeegee. The idea is to have the plastic act as a form to force all the epoxy to cure "flat" across the top, and it helps bridge the selvage bump.

    Just let it cure until it's firm, then peel the plastic off. Too soon is worse than too late, really. It'll come off.



    And, take all the same precautions with green epoxy as with liquid. Epoxy takes some time to totally cure. When fully cured its inert, but the uncured stuff remains nasty.
    Cover up and wear breathing protection when making dust from the fresh stuff.

    Peace,
    Robert

  2. #72
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Great tip, will do as you described. Never did get it done tonight as the glue I had applied alongside the trim pieces hadn't fully cured. Figured best to let it fully dry before taping it, as once that's done the glue may never have the chance to fully dry. Think I'll try using a large ziploc bag cut in half and extended, as I don't think I have any other suitable plastic bag in the house. These ziploc bags are pretty tough, see through and pliable.

    Since the glue got in the way of the taping, made a run to the paint store and got a litre of what I'm sure will be a very nice spar varnish (high gloss, oil based, tung oil, UV inhibitors). Only thing missing is the white paint. What is preferred paint nowadays? In the old days you could get a high gloss oil based exterior paint or even a marine paint but now it seems they only sell water based stuff. Which I suspect isn't ideal for below water use.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Last night (some 18 hours ago) I placed a coat of epoxy where the taping is to go, mainly in order to help seal the wood. Some of it is dry and I didn't want to take the chance of it starving the tape. It hasn't cured, as expected and it's still a bit tacky (temp was around 13C during the night, now close to double that). Can I go ahead and do the taping even if it hasn't had the chance to cure, which System 3 claims to be 24 hours. If so, do I just leave it as is or do I sand it first? Given our dry climate and how it hasn't cured, should I be worried about anime blush at this stage? Really hoping to get the taping done today, so a bit of guidance on the proper procedure would be great.


  4. #74
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Just found the technical data sheet for it, this is what it says:
    It is an easy to use 2:1 ratio. It willnot blush or turn milky in thin films and cures overnight.

    That answers the blush concern. But still not sure if it'd be a good idea to lightly sand it prior to applying the new coat (taping).

  5. #75
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Pot a bit of filler over the screw head and into that gappy looking joint, then as you sand them fair you will knock the roughness off of the epoxy coated wood.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  6. #76
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Done and done. Hadn't covered the screws (15 in total) as I figured the tape would do that - but it makes sense to fill these in order to avoid air bubbles, as well the gaps in the trim pieces. Thanks for the catch. Once this dries a quick sanding and on to the main step of this whole project.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    great job so jar. thx for the heads up on the 3m filler. just what i need for my boat.

    jim

  8. #78
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joolz View Post
    Done and done. Hadn't covered the screws (15 in total) as I figured the tape would do that - but it makes sense to fill these in order to avoid air bubbles, as well the gaps in the trim pieces. Thanks for the catch. Once this dries a quick sanding and on to the main step of this whole project.
    Remember, that "green" epoxy dust is just as bad as the liquid, as far as being able to sensitize you. Keep that fresh dust off your skin just like the liquid stuff, eh?

    Looking good for the first time!

    Peace,
    Robert

  9. #79
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Here it is, taped!
    Did this outdoors, so didn't get to inhale much of these bad fumes. Disposable gloves too, of course. However, not all is well:



    Looks great, right? Well, a closer look points to a problem I simply cannot figure out how to solve. As seen in the pic below the crease doesn't want to conform to the trim. Won't stay at a 90 degree angle, keeps reverting to 45. Things are still wet and manageable, in case someone can come to my rescue, please do so (assuming there's a trick to fix this). Till then guess my only option is to keep pushing into the tape as it hardens in hopes that it will stay put, as the epoxy makes it harder for it to come undone. At least I hope this doesn't mess the other ends.

    If it was to stay like this, would it be a problem? Of course having air inside can't be a good thing. The guy that built this boat managed to get it up and tight along the trims.


  10. #80
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Bump.
    Sorry for being pushy but hoping to hear from someone before the epoxy hardens. Will also be dark in about 40 min. Hope someone isn't out having dinner on a Friday night.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    I wouldn't sweat it Joolz let the epoxy harden I've had this happen a time or 6 when I first tried glassing. I'd just cut or grind that little void area out after and smear a bit of filler in the area to make a fillet. Then you could glass over it again, just a small area. Or just paint er up and call it good for now

  12. #82
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Heh someone wasn't out having dinner this Friday evening. Actually Salty, it looks like perseverance won at the end. Kept pushing it in tight with a putty knife and by now (nearly 1.5 hours later) things are nice and square and seems to be holding up, as the epoxy is getting pretty hard by now. If this works then I'd be 1 up on you (or 6). Will see how it looks like in the morning.

    The surprise here: despite my fears of running out of the epoxy, only managed to use a tad past half the bottle and this included applying some 3 or 4 coats to the new plywood and other sealing spots (used up nearly 3 metres of 4" tape). Was rather deliberate in using the stuff, ensuring the tape was fully wet. Nice to have some left over for the next project. For anyone in town looking to find this System 3 epoxy, I found it at Calgary Industrial Paint and Plastic. This kit was $46 and it's 355ml (or as the Americans call it, 12 ounces). Tape was dirt cheap at $2.50 a metre (yard?). The next kit size up is double that (guess they call it a pint?) for $72. Costly, considering the West System costs around $100 for the litre. Lee Valleys has it too. On the plus side this Cold Cure doesn't seem to be susceptible to amine blush and it's a lot easier to measure quantities.

    What a relief, the worst is behind. 2 weeks of prepping to arrive at this point. A bit scary for a first timer but glad to have it done.

    Before I spend energy and time painting the exterior and varnishing the inside, want to take it on a test run. Hope to do it on Monday. If it floats, then it's on to varnishing. Then 2 weeks later or whenever the epoxy cures, a paint job.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MADOC1 View Post
    great job so jar. thx for the heads up on the 3m filler. just what i need for my boat.

    jim
    Indeed great stuff. Saved me from potentially costly repair to my fibreglass boat where a keel repair would have meant removing then reapplying the gel coat plus all the mess associated with fibreglassing. The filler isn't considered to be structural but in my case it did work well for the purpose. Best $36 (canadian) ever spent and I only had to use a little of the can.

    Which meant plenty left for this boat, which is coming really handy in so many spots, including this one in the pic. Suppose that ideally I should add tape and epoxy to this. But it looks like a thick coat of the filler to be doing the job just fine (don't plan to bump the front too many times). Still needs a bit of sanding and feathering but sure a lot simpler then messing with the epoxy stuff - which would have required the area to be filled anyway. Easy to sand too, which is key. And it it accepts pretty much any top coat, plus it doesn't shrink. Only downside is a very short work time, we're talking under 5 minutes. And don't let the stuff dry in your hands, it is virtually impossible to remove. Learned this the hard way when a bit of it got in my nails and the dry skin surrounding it when I first used it. Worse than superglue.


  14. #84
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    3 days later and things are fully dry. Good time to fix a couple of the small flaws. As mentioned earlier there are some air bubbles, formed as a result of the tape not wanting to conform to the tight angles. After much pushing the tape onto the ever hardening epoxy, it mostly did stay in place, save a few spots where the tape was damaged due to all the pushing with the putty knife (guess a plastic one would have worked better). Just added a piece of tape to that corner and covered the air bubbles with a fresh coat of epoxy. May do another coat to be certain it's fully waterproof. Tomorrow is the planned launch, have little doubt the thing will float.

    Wife looked at it and said the repair looked professional. For anyone married as long as I have been you'd understand that such compliments are rare, so this must be really one decent job I did


  15. #85
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    i agree with your wife. good job!

    jim

  16. #86
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    This has to be a record. Joolz went from looking for a quick fix, to doing it right, to obsessing over the flaws in the space of about three weeks! Looks great to me Joolz - nice work. I'm looking forward to seeing some photos of the boat in the water.
    - Chris

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  17. #87
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    I'm looking forward to seeing some photos of the boat in the water.
    And I shall gladly comply:


    This is what it's all about: getting outdoors and spending quality time with the kids. This (huge) marina/reservoir is in the middle of the city and only 10 min away from us. Wife often brings kids there to spend time in the water park. Now we get to enjoy a bit of rowing about (no motors allowed, no inflatables, no swimming as this is the city's water supply). Wasn't sure if the boys would enjoy being in this tiny boat compared to our main boat but they clearly didn't mind in the least. At that age anything outdoors is fun. Best part about this tiny boat is that I can easily pick it up by myself. It even fits nicely in my dirtbike's trailer, which is tiny. So going solo (or with my 1 year old gal) wouldn't be a problem at all.

    One thing most of you will notice is the rather inadequate paddles. Too short and the wrong material. This is just something I had in the house, so it worked for this trial. But would you think a 6' pair of wooden oars to be the way to go? I'm 6' tall (1.82m) and would think that'd be the right ballpark. But have no experience rowing, so your advice is welcomed.

    As for the boat, it worked great for the most part. One issue prevented us from spending much time in the water or going far from the dock: a leak in the port side where there's some cracking in the plywood. Water was sipping in slowly but steadily. This is something I was aware of and planned to fix but run out of time as today was the day to hit the water so I took the chance. Tomorrow I play to address this, once the wood dries up. Plan is to sand/prime the area and then feather it out with the 3M marine filler. Then likely a coat or two of the epoxy resin, then of course, a couple of coats of paint. Would this be a good way to address this? As for the repair I made adjacent to the transom, it was sound. Really glad I listened to you guys here and followed your expert advice. It worked so nicely that now we have the answer we were seeking: this thing is definitely a keeper! Had I taken shortcuts as I first intended, our experience may not have been as positive. So I'm really glad you guys stuck with me and guided me through all these steps. I'm so very thankful to everyone here that took their time to help me with me the restoration of this little skiff. Sure my kids are just as grateful.



    More pics to come. In the next few days I plan to varnish the inside and paint the outside. Then it will be picture worthy.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Sweet!

    Peace,
    Robert

  19. #89
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    This is wonderful, well done and thanks for the pictures!
    Last edited by Dody; 08-16-2017 at 07:37 AM.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joolz View Post

    One thing most of you will notice is the rather inadequate paddles. Too short and the wrong material. This is just something I had in the house, so it worked for this trial. But would you think a 6' pair of wooden oars to be the way to go? I'm 6' tall (1.82m) and would think that'd be the right ballpark. But have no experience rowing, so your advice is welcomed.
    You size the oars to the beam of the boat, usually twice the beam.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  21. #91
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    You size the oars to the beam of the boat, usually twice the beam.
    Thanks, this means I need 7' oars. Went to the store, their $100 pair looks rather unappealing and clearly overpriced. Sure I can build something nicer for a fraction of the cost. Any handy resources you could point me to, as far as plans/instructions go? Searching here shows hundreds of unrelated hits.

    As for repairing the cracks where water is sipping through, another look at it makes me wonder if I'd be better off just taping the entire area (after removing all the paint). Beginning to have fun with taping, this stuff is addictive

    As I'm now in the finishing phase, this would be a good time to address something I haven't yet touched upon: reinforcing the transom in order to have the trolling motor attached to. As seen in the pic, there was a plate there that I removed as it was rotting (you can see where I filled the screw holes). Figured I could just add another piece of plywood to match, which would give me a total of 32mm (1.25 inches). But wonder if I could add an additional piece of plywood around the area where the motor attaches to the transom, in order to beef it up a bit? Or would this be overkill in such a small boat and my 32 lbs thrust motor?


  22. #92
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Thanks, this means I need 7' oars. Went to the store, their $100 pair looks rather unappealing and clearly overpriced. Sure I can build something nicer for a fraction of the cost.
    We've hooked another one folks! You are in it now Joolz. First the row boat. Then the oars... Pretty soon you will be putting your fiberglass boat on craigslist and looking around for a nice little wooden skiff. Might as well just do it now.

    As for oar plans... lots of those about from cheap to free depending on your inclination. I haven't made a pair myself though so hopefully someone who has (and there are many here) will come along and give you some pointers. Actually, I imagine that Amish will be popping up any minute with some advice since he just finished a pair. Some detail here:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...5345-Duck-Punt
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  23. #93
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    This has been a lovely thread. Great to see your family enjoying the fruits of your labour, and your pride in bringing back a boat that was probably very close to going into landfill. Good job all round.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joolz View Post
    Thanks, this means I need 7' oars. Went to the store, their $100 pair looks rather unappealing and clearly overpriced. Sure I can build something nicer for a fraction of the cost. Any handy resources you could point me to, as far as plans/instructions go? Searching here shows hundreds of unrelated hits.

    As for repairing the cracks where water is sipping through, another look at it makes me wonder if I'd be better off just taping the entire area (after removing all the paint). Beginning to have fun with taping, this stuff is addictive

    As I'm now in the finishing phase, this would be a good time to address something I haven't yet touched upon: reinforcing the transom in order to have the trolling motor attached to. As seen in the pic, there was a plate there that I removed as it was rotting (you can see where I filled the screw holes). Figured I could just add another piece of plywood to match, which would give me a total of 32mm (1.25 inches). But wonder if I could add an additional piece of plywood around the area where the motor attaches to the transom, in order to beef it up a bit? Or would this be overkill in such a small boat and my 32 lbs thrust motor?

    Doubling up on that motor mount patch will do no harm, you need a flat surface for the clamp pads to land on anyway.
    These look OK

    sawn out and glued up from 1" by 6 pine boards. Or you can set about 3" x 6" and make a lot of kindling as well.
    The destructions are on here:
    http://www.jimsboats.com/webarchives/2002/15aug02.htm
    I would prefer that the wrist, shown at 1 1/4" is oval, say 1 1/4 by 1 3/4
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  25. #95
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    If you have the patience to wade through the idiocy that is my Duck Punt thread, there are a few photos of a very similar set of oars coming together.

    Not a set of instructions, but the major, basic steps in making oars like Nick posted plans for.

    Peace,
    Robert

  26. #96
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    We've hooked another one folks! You are in it now Joolz. First the row boat. Then the oars... Pretty soon you will be putting your fiberglass boat on craigslist and looking around for a nice little wooden skiff. Might as well just do it now.

    As for oar plans... lots of those about from cheap to free depending on your inclination. I haven't made a pair myself though so hopefully someone who has (and there are many here) will come along and give you some pointers. Actually, I imagine that Amish will be popping up any minute with some advice since he just finished a pair. Some detail here:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...5345-Duck-Punt
    Shoot. I am guilty of not reading carefully.
    Thanks for the shout out. Those were fun. I also am embroiled in a set of currach-like oars for kicks, because they are literally sticks. Hehe.

    I just finished a pair of large oars for my sailboat, too. And paddles. I have a real paddle making problem.

    Peace,
    Robert

  27. #97
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Making progress here, managed to patch the area on the port side where water was sipping in. Also taped the front of the keel where previously I had only used 3M Marine filler - which cracked. May have to add another layer once it cures to be on the safe side. Can't say I mind doing it, taping is actually turning into a fun thing (what's happening to me, I sound like the likes of you folks)

    Found some nice, hefty 2x3s at Lowes. And a 1x6 cedar board to go with it. Cedar is light and is void of knots, unlike the 1x2 spruce strips I was considering. Would cedar work OK? Will only need a thin strip of it to go on both sides of the 2x3 in order to have a total of 5.5 inches for the blade. Plan to glue these tonight, so tomorrow I can go nuts carving it.

    Thanks for the plan, Nick. Those dimensions are pretty close to a couple of the wooden paddles I have in the house, may use it to trace around and carve the rest based on the numbers in your drawing.


  28. #98
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Quickly whipped up one of the handles. Off to a good start on them rowing sticks. Not wanting to glue things and sit there staring at it till it dries, figured might as well get this crucial 5" portion out of the way, in case I messed it up. If this is an indication, my 3 basic tools ought to get the job done nicely and quickly. Sure glad I'm too cheap to fork out $100 for store bought ones. Working with wood is fun (no need to mention this in a wood boat forum)


  29. #99
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Glad to report I have one of the oars done. Well, almost, currently glueing as seen in the pic. Did one at a time as I'm learning as I go along, so didn't want to risk ruining of one these costly 2 dollar sticks. So far coming along nicely, the single oar is nicely balanced and very sturdy. Hopefully the glue will be strong enough to keep these cedar pieces in place.

    Question: for added strength, can I add a couple or more screws to the paddle, going from the edge of the cedar into the spruce? No one seems to do this, there must be a reason why but if someone can please clarify that'd be great. Naturally I intend to varnish these, so the glue won't be in direct contact with the water. But would feel safer if it had a few screws securing the cedar pieces in place, if that's a viable option.


  30. #100
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Update: after 5 weeks it's finally ready and this afternoon I hit the water for a very successful first run.
    Since I'm using oil based varnish/top coat paint the process is slow, as each coat takes at least a day which painfully adds to the timeline. Slapped 3 coats of varnish and a couple of top coats to the outside. Also worked on finishing off the oars, which turned out better than expected. Learned much from this first pair, the next will be a lot smoother. But hey, for a total cost of $7 can't complain. Nicely balanced too, I can literally balance it on my finger at the halfway mark. Saw the $100 ones at the store, and they're gross, end-heavy. Mine only weigh 1.6 kg each. Somehow managed to get the weight on both nearly identical, only a 28 gram deviation. However they need a bit of adjustment, they're overlapping each other while near my chest by some 6". Will modify them so that they just barely touch, while retaining the 6.5' length. Another issue I didn't much like is how hard it is to row as I kept hitting my knee. Despite cramping my long legs at odd angles to clear the oars, they oar locks are only 7.5" above the seat. Even my skinny legs are too close to the rowing motion. In the future may have to consider adding a block to raise the distance.

    Onto the boat: as seen in the pic it fits nicely in my dirtbike trailer. Best of all, by simply backing the trailer a metre into the water I can easily unload and load it by myself by simply sliding it on/off the trailer. Total weight is a bit under 35kg. Should be less but added some additional plywood for the trolling motor and a portion to the floor, as I didn't feel too confident with the existing plywood.

    As for the repairs, having followed the advice given by the members here to a tee has paid off nicely. Thing is solid now, nicely sealed and after a couple of coats of gloss oil paint, the repairs are hardly noticeable. Total cost of materials came to $175, including the oars and I still have plenty of left overs for future use.

    All of this work over a little skiff... but the thing is fun to row about. Next year will get a fishing license and can already see another use for it. Size is a bit small, even with just my little girl and myself. Tighter as she grows. Who knows, there may be plans for a slightly bigger one in the future. At 2.3m long (7'-8") it's nice and compact but I could live with a 9' long one as it should still fit in the trailer and the space in my garage. Heh, if you guys here twist my arm enough I may even consider building a sailboat/rowboat instead.

    This has been a very successful project that I truly didn't want to devote the time to given how I had to put other plans on hold - but being out there on the water in a boat that I'm confident to be safe is great. Next time I take it out, will bring the 1 year old along. Think then I'll have the proof that this was a good investment.

    Thanks again to all that helped, especially Nick with his detailed instructions and patience.






  31. #101
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    That is excellent.
    You can row with crossed oars, it is just a technique to learn that was normal in some fisheries.

    You do need to fit chocks under those oar lock sockets. As high as looks acceptable, because you are aiming for 10" clearance minimum. However 2 1/2" might look a bit much.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  32. #102
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    that came out great! good work and result. i certainly see a larger boat in your future with a one year old. lol

    jim

  33. #103
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Haha. You're hooked!

    I can't wait to see what you decide to build to "upgrade".

    Oh, you're hooked. It's going to happen. Hehe.

    Meanwhile, enjoy your new boat! Excellent work. Have fun.

    Peace,
    Robert

  34. #104
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Congratulations Joolz. You have a nice boat AND a new hobby!

    Cheers,
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  35. #105
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    Default Re: How to restore this rot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    You do need to fit chocks under those oar lock sockets. As high as looks acceptable, because you are aiming for 10" clearance minimum. However 2 1/2" might look a bit much.
    My hope is that once I make the oars so that they don't overlap that this will solve the problem - or at least make it possible to row without hitting my knees with every forward stroke. I agree that adding a 2.5" high chock to the oar locks to not be practical. Would lowering the bench instead be a viable option? I could easily lower it 2" by simply replacing the support bracket on the sides and cutting the centre "column" to match. If anything lowering the centre of gravity sounds like a good idea. Not sure if this would contribute to an even more uncomfortable position for my legs but it can't be that much worse than how it is now. I was even considering removing the bench altogether and replacing it with a soft bench/pad/chair or what have you. I have a very sore spot from sitting in this hard bench, and this after only rowing for less than 1.5km.

    Given the tight area, overlapping rowing isn't in the books for me. Think I'll cut it so that the closest the handles come to one another to be an inch, so that there is no chance of my hands hitting each other. Hope this doesn't ruin the rowing experience (of which I know very little about)


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