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Thread: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

  1. #1
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    Default Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    A line in the swamp?

    What will Donny do...

    DEUTSCHE BANK IS TURNING OVER INFORMATION ON TRUMP

    Regulators are scrutinizing hundreds of millions in loans and a subpoena from Robert Mueller is expected.


    Among the many mysteries surrounding Donald Trump’s finances as a real-estate mogul—and the conflicts of interest that might be revealed by his tax returns, were he ever to release them—is his long history of debt. The issue is not merely what Trump owes, but who he owes. As critics noted on the campaign trail, Trump’s habit of reneging on contracts and suing his lenders meant that virtually nobody on Wall Street wanted to work with him, with one exception: Deutsche Bank, which had loaned him hundreds of millions of dollars when no one else would, even after he sued the firm. Now, investigators probing the ties between the Trump campaign and Russia are wondering why—and they’re beginning to take a closer look at the president’s accounts with his favorite bank, which also happens to have strong ties to Russia itself.


    The New York Times reports that banking regulators are currently “reviewing hundreds of millions of dollars in loans made to Mr. Trump’s businesses through Deutsche Bank’s private wealth management unit . . . to [see] if the loans might expose the bank to heightened risk.” Meanwhile, the Guardian reports that executives at Deutsche are “expecting that the bank will soon be receiving subpoenas or other requests for information from Robert Mueller,” and that the special counsel’s investigative team and the bank have “already established informal contact in connection to the federal investigation.”


    There’s certainly plenty to look into. Over the last 20 years, Trump has received more than $4 billion in loan commitments and potential bond offerings from the German lender, despite suing the company in 2008 when he fell behind on payments on the $640 million loan he was given to build Trump International Hotel & Tower in Chicago. Incredibly, in order to avoid paying the $40 million he had personally guaranteed, Trump and his lawyer argued that “Deutsche Bank is one of the banks primarily responsible for the economic dysfunction we are currently facing”—i.e. the global financial crisis—and therefore it should pay him $3 billion in damages under the extraordinary event clause in his contract. Naturally, the bank countersued, calling the real-estate developer’s claim “classic Trump.” In the end, after threatening to take his name off the building if he wasn’t granted more time to pay, the bank gave Trump extra time; when he did pay the money he owed to the firm’s real-estate lending division, it was with another loan he got from Deutsche’s wealth-management unit. Trump subsequently moved his business from the real estate group to the private wealth management group, where, according to the Times, “executives were more willing to deal with him.” One of those executives was Rosemary Vrablic, who has helped finance three Trump properties over the last six years, lending $300 million in the process. That amount is “somewhat unusual by Wall Street standards,” former and current Deutsche Bank executives and wealth managers at other firms on Wall Street told the Times.


    In addition to Donald, Ivanka Trump is also said to be a Deutsche Bank client, as is Jared Kushner and his mother, who, per the Times, have “an unsecured line of credit from Deutsche Bank, valued at up to $25 million.” In addition, the Kushner family business, Kushner Companies, got a $285 million loan from the bank last year. And because the Kushners and Trumps have never shied away from conflicts of interest, in 2013, Kushner reportedly “ordered up a glowing profile of [Vrablic] in the real estate magazine he owned,” with a disclosure about their connection at the very end of the piece.


    Apart from the Trumps and Kushners, Deutsche Bank also has deep ties to Russia. In addition to settling allegations earlier this year that it allowed $10 billion to be laundered out of Eastern Europe, Deutsche Bank had a “cooperation agreement” with Vnesheconombank, a Russian state-owned development bank that is the target of U.S. economic sanctions. Vnesheconombank, for those who need a refresher, was the bank whose chief executive, Sergey Gorkov, Jared Kushner forgot to mention meeting in December. Oh, and there’s also this:


    . . . in May, federal prosecutors settled a case with a Cyprus investment vehicle owned by a Russian businessman with close family connections to the Kremlin. The firm, Prevezon Holdings, was represented by Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer who was among the people who met during the presidential campaign with Donald Trump Jr. about Hillary Clinton. Federal prosecutors in the United States claimed Prevezon, which admitted no wrongdoing, laundered the proceeds of an alleged Russian tax fraud through real estate. Prevezon and its partner relied in part on $90 million in financing from a big European financial institution, court records show. It was Deutsche Bank.


    In an interview with the Times published late Wednesday night, Trump, when asked if he thought Mueller’s investigation would “cross a red line” if it began to examine his “family’s finances beyond any relationship to Russia,” said “I would say yes. I think that’s a violation.”


    Dare you to fire him...
    Greg H. - from before the great crash, 20th century member 108

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Well as a virtual King with extra-judicial powers I guess he'll just sack him.
    You are screwed.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    I think he will and laid the groundwork for the faithful with his Times interview let's see what the Senate does when it happens McConnell POS but even that reptile hopefully has limits.

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Screwed... for now, anyway.
    Greg H. - from before the great crash, 20th century member 108

    "Who are you when you're not thinking yourself into existence?"

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Trump will just sue, again and again until it goes away......
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Some of you are too pessimistic. I think this will yield something.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Some of you are too pessimistic. I think this will yield something.
    Three scoops??????
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

  8. #8

    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by jack grebe View Post
    Trump will just sue, again and again until it goes away......
    What's he going to do when Putin and pal's stop sending checks.

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    What's he going to do when Putin and pal's stop sending checks.
    Same thing he always does, declare bankruptcy and write the losses of others off as personal....
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    It will yield something, I agree. But I think that before it does, he will have to shock America by firing the second guy investigating him. If Sessions finds the stones to refuse to comply, he'll have a repeat of the Saturday Night Massacre, which will really get folks' attention. But I don't think Sessions has it in him.

    I no longer wonder how the authoritarian states of the 20th Century found enough amoral people to fill the upper ranks. And that makes me sad.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  11. #11

    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by jack grebe View Post
    Same thing he always does, declare bankruptcy and write the losses of others off as personal....
    Sweet you support that, and even seem to feel it's a good thing

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    This is beyond belief! God (who I don't believe in) protect the USA.

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    It will yield something, I agree. But I think that before it does, he will have to shock America by firing the second guy investigating him. If Sessions finds the stones to refuse to comply, he'll have a repeat of the Saturday Night Massacre, which will really get folks' attention. But I don't think Sessions has it in him.

    I no longer wonder how the authoritarian states of the 20th Century found enough amoral people to fill the upper ranks. And that makes me sad.

    We should have already been shocked into doing something. And the way it's going, I'm afraid the shock is going to need to be huge... we'll survive in some form though.
    Greg H. - from before the great crash, 20th century member 108

    "Who are you when you're not thinking yourself into existence?"

  14. #14

    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    I'm guessing everything Mueller finds will find it way to the IRS with requests for more information if Mueller goes Trump opened the door.

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    It will yield something, I agree. But I think that before it does, he will have to shock America by firing the second guy investigating him. If Sessions finds the stones to refuse to comply, he'll have a repeat of the Saturday Night Massacre, which will really get folks' attention. But I don't think Sessions has it in him.

    I no longer wonder how the authoritarian states of the 20th Century found enough amoral people to fill the upper ranks. And that makes me sad.
    Hmmm... I wonder... have I ever mentioned the writings of British historian, Lord Acton?
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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    Sweet you support that, and even seem to feel it's a good thing
    I never said I supported that, that is his M.O........ Don't presume to get in my head and know my
    thoughts, it will only funk your day up........
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    What will the Orangeatang do? He'll make that little circle thing with his little forefinger and his little thumb and wave it around for all to see how formidable he is.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Trump Aides, Seeking Leverage, Investigate Muellerís Investigators

    By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT, MAGGIE HABERMAN and MATT APUZZO
    JULY 20, 2017
    NY Times


    WASHINGTON ó President Trumpís lawyers and aides are scouring the professional and political backgrounds of investigators hired by the special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, looking for conflicts of interest they could use to discredit the investigation ó or even build a case to fire Mr. Mueller or get some members of his team recused, according to three people with knowledge of the research effort.

    The search for potential conflicts is wide-ranging. It includes scrutinizing donations to Democratic candidates, investigatorsí past clients and Mr. Muellerís relationship with James B. Comey, whose firing as F.B.I. director is part of the special counselís investigation.

    The effort to investigate the investigators is another sign of a looming showdown between Mr. Trump and Mr. Mueller, who has assembled a team of high-powered prosecutors and agents to examine whether any of Mr. Trumpís advisers aided Russiaís campaign to disrupt last yearís presidential election.

    Some of the investigators have vast experience prosecuting financial malfeasance, and the prospect that Mr. Muellerís inquiry could evolve into an expansive examination of Mr. Trumpís financial history has stoked fears among the presidentís aides. Both Mr. Trump and his aides have said publicly they are watching closely to ensure Mr. Muellerís investigation remains narrowly focused on last yearís election.

    During an interview with The New York Times on Wednesday, Mr. Trump said he was aware that members of Mr. Muellerís team had potential conflicts of interest and would make the information available ďat some point.Ē

    Mr. Trump also said Mr. Mueller would be going outside his mandate if he begins investigating matters unrelated to Russia, like the presidentís personal finances. Mr. Trump repeatedly declined to say what he might do if Mr. Mueller appeared to exceed that mandate. But his comments to The Times represented a clear message to Mr. Mueller.

    ďThe presidentís making clear that the special counsel should not move outside the scope of the investigation,Ē Sarah Huckabee Sanders, a White House spokeswoman, said during a news briefing on Thursday.

    Joshua Stueve, a spokesman for the special counsel, declined to comment.

    For weeks, Republicans have publicly identified what they see as potential conflicts among Mr. Muellerís team of more than a dozen investigators. In particular, they have cited thousands of dollars of political donations to Democrats, including former President Barack Obama, made by Andrew Weissmann, a former senior Justice Department official who has expertise in fraud and other financial crimes. News reports have revealed similar donations by other members of Mr. Muellerís team, which Mr. Trumpís allies have cited as evidence of political bias. Another lawyer Mr. Mueller has hired, Jeannie Rhee, represented the Clinton Foundation.

    To seek a recusal, Mr. Trumpís lawyers can argue their case to Mr. Mueller or his boss, Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein. The Justice Department has explicit rules about what constitutes a conflict of interest. Prosecutors may not participate in investigations if they have ďa personal or political relationshipĒ with the subject of the case. Making campaign donations is not included on the list of things that would create a ďpolitical relationship.Ē

    The examination of Mr. Muellerís investigators reflects deep concerns among the presidentís aides that Mr. Mueller will mount a wide-ranging investigation in the mold of the inquiry conducted by the independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr during the 1990s. Mr. Starrís investigation into President Bill Clinton began by reviewing an Arkansas land deal and concluded several years later with the presidentís impeachment over a lie about a sexual affair.

    By building files on Mr. Muellerís team, the Trump administration is following in the footsteps of the Clinton White House, which openly challenged Mr. Starr and criticized what Mr. Clintonís aides saw as a political witch hunt.

    Mr. Trumpís advisers are split on how far to go in challenging the independence of Mr. Mueller, a retired F.B.I. director and one of the most respected figures in law enforcement. Some advisers have warned that dismissing Mr. Mueller would create a legal and political mess.

    Nevertheless, Mr. Trump has kept up the attacks on him. In his interview with The Times, which caught members of his legal team by surprise, he focused on the fact that Mr. Mueller had interviewed to replace Mr. Comey as the F.B.I. director just a day before Mr. Mueller was appointed special prosecutor, saying that the interview could create a conflict.

    ďHe was sitting in that chair,Ē Mr. Trump said during the Oval Office interview. ďHe was up here, and he wanted the job.Ē Mr. Trump did not explain how the interview created a conflict of interest.

    In addition to investigating possible collusion between Russia and Mr. Trumpís advisers, the special counsel is examining whether the president obstructed justice by firing Mr. Comey. Some of Mr. Trumpís supporters have portrayed Mr. Mueller and Mr. Comey as close friends. While they worked closely together in the Justice Department under President George W. Bush and are known to respect each other, associates of both men say the two are not particularly close.

    Mr. Muellerís team has begun examining financial records, and has requested documents from the Internal Revenue Service related to Mr. Trumpís former campaign chairman, Paul J. Manafort, according to a senior American official. The records are from a criminal tax investigation that had been opened long before Mr. Trumpís campaign began. Mr. Manafort was never charged in that case.

    Federal investigators have also contacted Deutsche Bank about Mr. Trumpís accounts, and the bank is expecting to provide information to Mr. Mueller.

    A lawyer for Mr. Trump, Jay Sekulow, declined to address the potential conflicts he and the other lawyers for Mr. Trump have uncovered about Mr. Muellerís team. He said, however, that ďany good lawyer would raise, at the appropriate time and in the appropriate venue, conflict-of-interest issues.Ē

    Mr. Sekulow is one part of a legal team in the midst of being reorganized, according to three people with knowledge of the matter. The role of Marc E. Kasowitz, the presidentís longtime New York lawyer, will be significantly reduced. Mr. Trump liked Mr. Kasowitzís blunt, aggressive style, but he was not a natural fit in the delicate, politically charged criminal investigation. The veteran Washington defense lawyer John Dowd will take the lead in representing Mr. Trump for the Russia inquiry.

    Mr. Sekulow, a firebrand lawyer with deep conservative credentials, will serve as Mr. Dowdís deputy. Two people briefed on the new structure said it was created because the investigation is much more focused in Washington, where Mr. Dowd has a long history of dealing with the Justice Department.

    Mark Corallo is no longer working as a spokesman for the legal team. A former Justice Department spokesman, Mr. Corallo was one of several people cautioning against publicly criticizing Mr. Mueller.

    The shake-up comes weeks after Mr. Dowd and Mr. Kasowitz had a face-to-face meeting with Mr. Mueller. The lawyers said they hoped Mr. Mueller would conduct a thorough investigation but asked that he wrap it up in a timely manner because of the cloud it had cast over the presidency, according to a senior American official and two others briefed on details of the meeting. Mr. Dowd said Mr. Trump would fully cooperate with Mr. Mueller, one of the people said.

    It is not unusual for lawyers to meet with prosecutors to establish a line of communication, or to encourage them to move quickly. Mr. Trumpís situation is unique, though, because of his teamís public threats that they could fire Mr. Mueller at any time.

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by bob winter View Post
    This is beyond belief! God (who I don't believe in) protect the USA.
    We knew this was going to be a horrible ride. Our Republican congress are a bunch of cowards and a lot of our people are either ignorant or complicit. But I have to believe that right will prevail. The opposition, and it is both powerful and growing, is not going to go away. There is no way this can end well, but it will end and one has to believe the criminals will come to justice. I am not shy about discussion in my real life and you can take the measure of people by talking with them.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    I no longer wonder how the authoritarian states of the 20th Century found enough amoral lawyers to defend the upper ranks. And that makes me sad.

    Just changed it a little Tom, guns for hire.

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    I hesitate to predict. Trump tends to make a lot of threats, many of which are empty. Remember the 'tapes' of his conversations with Comey?

    Then there's a touch of irony in the idea that "You can't investigate my conflicts of interests because you have your own conflicts of interest."

    He's asking if he can pardon himself and his family. WE should be asking him what HE thinks he and his family will need to be pardoned for.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    I dont think he cares, he won. And the word "We" will now apply to King Donald.

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lesser View Post
    Trump Aides, Seeking Leverage, Investigate Mueller’s Investigators

    By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT, MAGGIE HABERMAN and MATT APUZZO
    JULY 20, 2017
    NY Times


    WASHINGTON — President Trump’s lawyers and aides are scouring the professional and political backgrounds of investigators hired by the special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, looking for conflicts of interest they could use to discredit the investigation — or even build a case to fire Mr. Mueller or get some members of his team recused, according to three people with knowledge of the research effort.

    The search for potential conflicts is wide-ranging. It includes scrutinizing donations to Democratic candidates, investigators’ past clients and Mr. Mueller’s relationship with James B. Comey, whose firing as F.B.I. director is part of the special counsel’s investigation.

    The effort to investigate the investigators is another sign of a looming showdown between Mr. Trump and Mr. Mueller, who has assembled a team of high-powered prosecutors and agents to examine whether any of Mr. Trump’s advisers aided Russia’s campaign to disrupt last year’s presidential election.

    Some of the investigators have vast experience prosecuting financial malfeasance, and the prospect that Mr. Mueller’s inquiry could evolve into an expansive examination of Mr. Trump’s financial history has stoked fears among the president’s aides. Both Mr. Trump and his aides have said publicly they are watching closely to ensure Mr. Mueller’s investigation remains narrowly focused on last year’s election.

    During an interview with The New York Times on Wednesday, Mr. Trump said he was aware that members of Mr. Mueller’s team had potential conflicts of interest and would make the information available “at some point.”

    Mr. Trump also said Mr. Mueller would be going outside his mandate if he begins investigating matters unrelated to Russia, like the president’s personal finances. Mr. Trump repeatedly declined to say what he might do if Mr. Mueller appeared to exceed that mandate. But his comments to The Times represented a clear message to Mr. Mueller.

    “The president’s making clear that the special counsel should not move outside the scope of the investigation,” Sarah Huckabee Sanders, a White House spokeswoman, said during a news briefing on Thursday.

    Joshua Stueve, a spokesman for the special counsel, declined to comment.

    For weeks, Republicans have publicly identified what they see as potential conflicts among Mr. Mueller’s team of more than a dozen investigators. In particular, they have cited thousands of dollars of political donations to Democrats, including former President Barack Obama, made by Andrew Weissmann, a former senior Justice Department official who has expertise in fraud and other financial crimes. News reports have revealed similar donations by other members of Mr. Mueller’s team, which Mr. Trump’s allies have cited as evidence of political bias. Another lawyer Mr. Mueller has hired, Jeannie Rhee, represented the Clinton Foundation.

    To seek a recusal, Mr. Trump’s lawyers can argue their case to Mr. Mueller or his boss, Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein. The Justice Department has explicit rules about what constitutes a conflict of interest. Prosecutors may not participate in investigations if they have “a personal or political relationship” with the subject of the case. Making campaign donations is not included on the list of things that would create a “political relationship.”

    The examination of Mr. Mueller’s investigators reflects deep concerns among the president’s aides that Mr. Mueller will mount a wide-ranging investigation in the mold of the inquiry conducted by the independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr during the 1990s. Mr. Starr’s investigation into President Bill Clinton began by reviewing an Arkansas land deal and concluded several years later with the president’s impeachment over a lie about a sexual affair.

    By building files on Mr. Mueller’s team, the Trump administration is following in the footsteps of the Clinton White House, which openly challenged Mr. Starr and criticized what Mr. Clinton’s aides saw as a political witch hunt.

    Mr. Trump’s advisers are split on how far to go in challenging the independence of Mr. Mueller, a retired F.B.I. director and one of the most respected figures in law enforcement. Some advisers have warned that dismissing Mr. Mueller would create a legal and political mess.

    Nevertheless, Mr. Trump has kept up the attacks on him. In his interview with The Times, which caught members of his legal team by surprise, he focused on the fact that Mr. Mueller had interviewed to replace Mr. Comey as the F.B.I. director just a day before Mr. Mueller was appointed special prosecutor, saying that the interview could create a conflict.

    “He was sitting in that chair,” Mr. Trump said during the Oval Office interview. “He was up here, and he wanted the job.” Mr. Trump did not explain how the interview created a conflict of interest.

    In addition to investigating possible collusion between Russia and Mr. Trump’s advisers, the special counsel is examining whether the president obstructed justice by firing Mr. Comey. Some of Mr. Trump’s supporters have portrayed Mr. Mueller and Mr. Comey as close friends. While they worked closely together in the Justice Department under President George W. Bush and are known to respect each other, associates of both men say the two are not particularly close.

    Mr. Mueller’s team has begun examining financial records, and has requested documents from the Internal Revenue Service related to Mr. Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul J. Manafort, according to a senior American official. The records are from a criminal tax investigation that had been opened long before Mr. Trump’s campaign began. Mr. Manafort was never charged in that case.

    Federal investigators have also contacted Deutsche Bank about Mr. Trump’s accounts, and the bank is expecting to provide information to Mr. Mueller.

    A lawyer for Mr. Trump, Jay Sekulow, declined to address the potential conflicts he and the other lawyers for Mr. Trump have uncovered about Mr. Mueller’s team. He said, however, that “any good lawyer would raise, at the appropriate time and in the appropriate venue, conflict-of-interest issues.”

    Mr. Sekulow is one part of a legal team in the midst of being reorganized, according to three people with knowledge of the matter. The role of Marc E. Kasowitz, the president’s longtime New York lawyer, will be significantly reduced. Mr. Trump liked Mr. Kasowitz’s blunt, aggressive style, but he was not a natural fit in the delicate, politically charged criminal investigation. The veteran Washington defense lawyer John Dowd will take the lead in representing Mr. Trump for the Russia inquiry.

    Mr. Sekulow, a firebrand lawyer with deep conservative credentials, will serve as Mr. Dowd’s deputy. Two people briefed on the new structure said it was created because the investigation is much more focused in Washington, where Mr. Dowd has a long history of dealing with the Justice Department.

    Mark Corallo is no longer working as a spokesman for the legal team. A former Justice Department spokesman, Mr. Corallo was one of several people cautioning against publicly criticizing Mr. Mueller.

    The shake-up comes weeks after Mr. Dowd and Mr. Kasowitz had a face-to-face meeting with Mr. Mueller. The lawyers said they hoped Mr. Mueller would conduct a thorough investigation but asked that he wrap it up in a timely manner because of the cloud it had cast over the presidency, according to a senior American official and two others briefed on details of the meeting. Mr. Dowd said Mr. Trump would fully cooperate with Mr. Mueller, one of the people said.

    It is not unusual for lawyers to meet with prosecutors to establish a line of communication, or to encourage them to move quickly. Mr. Trump’s situation is unique, though, because of his team’s public threats that they could fire Mr. Mueller at any time.

    So, he's basically declared war on the Special Council.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    I expect Trump will do his worst. He cannot help himself. It is in his (lack of) character.
    " Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy. You in America will see that some day."

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Hello Sir, I have a valid warrant to search these premises. OK, go ahead but you can only search in the living room, dining room and the kitchen above the counter. You may not, under any circumstance, go into the basement.
    Tom L

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I hesitate to predict. Trump tends to make a lot of threats, many of which are empty. Remember the 'tapes' of his conversations with Comey?

    Then there's a touch of irony in the idea that "You can't investigate my conflicts of interests because you have your own conflicts of interest."

    He's asking if he can pardon himself and his family. WE should be asking him what HE thinks he and his family will need to be pardoned for.
    There are so many ironies (not to mention non sequiturs) in anything Trump comments on as to make everything he says impossible to decipher. Loyal Republicans are cowards or fools as they continue to support this steaming lump of an ill excuse for a human being. When will those duly elected officials grow a spine?
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    There are so many ironies (not to mention non sequiturs) in anything Trump comments on as to make everything he says impossible to decipher. Loyal Republicans are cowards or fools as they continue to support this steaming lump of an ill excuse for a human being. When will those duly elected officials grow a spine?
    Those who are capable are growing one, or have done. The others may eventually develop a simulation.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    So, he's basically declared war on the Special Council.
    Pretty much. If actions taken by Trump and/or the Executive branch and their attorneys against Muller and his investigators don't move the Congress to action, nothing will. The ice is getting pretty thin all around.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  29. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    41,352

    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    “Liberty consists in the division of power. Absolutism, in concentration of power.” -- Lord Acton
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Louisville, Kentucky
    Posts
    23,536

    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    The SCROTUS has got it backwards. It is Trump who is threatening to cross a red line.
    " Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy. You in America will see that some day."

    " The truth is that men are tired of liberty."

    -- Benito Mussolini



  31. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    41,352

    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Those who are capable are growing one, or have done. The others may eventually develop a simulation.
    Eventually is the key word there, and only when their own self-interest leaves no option

    A wise person does at once, what a fool does at last. Both do the same thing; only at different times. -- Lord Acton

    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ton154525.html
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    17,346

    Default Re: Mueller Looks to be Crossing TRMPś Red LIne

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Those who are capable are growing one, or have done. The others may eventually develop a simulation.
    Genius! Now there's a ripe market for the picking. A rigid upright prosthesis.
    I wonder what the marketing campaign would look like? Probably involve a skimpily clad young woman helping an old white guy get up (out of his chair).

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