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Thread: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    The scarf joints looked good. Just need a bit of cleaning up/sanding. I tried to break a few off cuts and the ply snapped, not the scarf which was reassuring. I did remember to cut the groove in the bottom thankfully. It would be easy to miss this.

    Transom is now in temporarily...



    I have come across my first issue with the build though... The midship seat forward riser doesn't seem to fit (see picture below). Yes, I have checked all the measurements and it was cut directly from a pattern. If you look below, where it meets the bottom of the intersection of the lower side and the upper side, it appears too short (by 10-15mm). It measures perfectly across the bottom so I know it is located correctly. Has anyone else experienced this? Should I cut another piece out? Just glass it? Need suggestions as I have no idea what to do here.

    (This is as close as I could get it to fitting)

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    This is normal for an SNG boat.

    Suggestion 1: Brace the bulkhead pieces by clamping a section of wood across them to prevent the panels from distorting under pressure when they are fitted against the hull panels.

    Now back to what to do about those 10 mm - 15 mm gaps: Because your panels are now braced, try to do a little more dry fitting and see if you can reduce the gaps a little while adhering to the installation location(s) shown in the plan. After you finish dry fitting the hull and bulkhead panels, verify they are correctly aligned, and stitch the bulkhead panels into place. Tab-weld everything into place with small epoxy fillets once you're entirely certain everything is aligned correctly. When the tabs are very well cured, remove the stitches, add Dutchman patches (cut from scraps of your 6 mm plywood) to any gaps around the panels, and then proceed to fillet and tape the joints. Dutchman patches will be undetectable under fillet and tape once finished and painted.

    Dutchman patch -- yours won't be this big.

    Last edited by capefox; 08-04-2017 at 11:09 PM.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    This is looks like a first class build. I'll be following your progress and I'm looking forward to seeing what choices you make as you move ahead. Input from Capefox was invaluable when I built my Argie. He knows what he's talking about. Keep up the good work.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    I would see if the midship aft riser fits in its place before I did anything to compensate for the forward's fit. Think of the two risers as a pair that get installed the seat width apart.

    Did you get the printed instructions with your patterns? Or did your patterns show where to place the risers? In the instructions Dix says to position the risers by measuring along the side panel. Nevertheless I wouldn't be afraid to jockey the risers forward or back 1 or 2 cm's if that makes them fit better.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    While reaffirming what I said earlier about adjusting 1 or 2 cm's fore/aft would be o.k. if that leads to good fits: I would not go more than that because you are going to set up the board and mast based on where the midship seat is. If a small move cannot make everything align together then capefox is right on.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Thanks capefox, roy and mchex! Great idea with the dutchman patches and thanks for the picture as well. It certainly is aligned correctly. It fits the bottom panel perfectly. I received instructions as well as plans and patterns. I checked the measurements along the centreline of the side panel several times. Oh, well. It is getting painted anyway.

    In regard to the bulkhead risers, are they supposed to be square to the bottom of the boat at that point or square to the boat as it sits in the water? I assume as it sits in the water?! Not so worried about the midship ones but the floor near the bow curves upwards.

    Also, what do you use to fillet inside the bow? I assume I need to get a fair bit of resin in there to provide a curve for the fibreglass (I'm a little surprised people don't place a wedge of timber in there...or do they?).

    Anyway, stitches are now out. Boat is nice and square/aligned. I expect things to slow down a bit now.

    Quite a wide beam on this design. Really pleased that I chose it.

    Has anyone other than Fudzwollop put a lugsail on this design?






  7. #42
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    All nicely tab welded already. Well done.
    I wouldn't take the route of spiling, creating, and then installing a timber inner stem.

    The proven, easier approach is to create a beefy taped fillet joint at the bow. I'd suggest applying a generous fillet using a spreader with a 25 mm radius. Add a strengthening filler such as flocked cotton or milled fiberglass (handle carefully/respirator) to the bog you use. After letting the fillet cure for about an hour or two to a firm consistency, laminate the joint with 100 mm wide tape followed by 76 mm tape. Hint: You can easily cut strips at a 45-degree angle to the edge of the cloth with a rolling fabric cutter.
    Last edited by capefox; 08-06-2017 at 01:24 AM.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    I put a triangular hardwood block of about 10 inches in my bow stem to provide support for the u-bolt. Then filletted the rest. As for the seat risers. I put mine at 90 to the bottom panel.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Cheers capefox and nikky. Quick question...am I able to use pine for the riser cleats and the side seat stringers? It will be covered in epoxy.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    All the pine we have out in this area isn't strong or rot resistant. I'm not familiar with antipodean wood species, but I used African mahogany because it is strong and at least moderately rot resistant. I suspect you can do better than pine.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenman View Post
    Can I ask a couple of things that have me stumped?


    1. Why do people cut out the ply 2-5mm outside the drawn lines and then sand it back to the line? Does the jigsaw really damage the edges so that you can't cut to the lines? Couldn't I just use a blade with many small teeth to minimise the risk and cut to the line? It is a stitch and glue after all. Jigsaw jumps around a bit, I bought a sander polisher that sands it off really quick if I use a 40grit. The better the edge follows the line the better it will all go together without any 'raised' lumpy bits. I didn't do this, I just jigsawed and now I have a couple of bits where it just could have been so much nicer for just a little more work.
    2. Should I bevel the edges of the ply so that the edges butt up to each other where possible? You can, but you don't 'have' to. The fillets will fill it all up.
    3. Can I spray the full size plans with glue and then stick them to the ply before cutting them out? Yes, but then you have to sand it all off again before painting and/or epoxying. I just used a sharpened nail on a stick and tapped (through the paper every inch or two) my way around the plans on another boat I built using full size plans. Now I still have the plans but with lots of little holes along the lines. You can actually buy a pin wheel thingy to roll along the lines on the plans.
    4. When gluing the scarf, can I just use the normal epoxy? Do I really need thickener? If the epoxy has a 45 minute pot life, can I apply one coat of normal epoxy to the scarfs, give it time to sink into the end grain (15 mins or so) and then apply another coat before joining the sheets? You MUST use thickener! It will fill all the voids that way and won't soak into the wood too much.


    Sorry for the newb (we were all newbs) questions. Any comments on any of the four above points will be much appreciated.

    Paul.
    Hope I've helped (see above red writing)

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Whoops, Sorry about the above post, I didn't realise you had continued way past that. All looking good Paul. The gaps around the risers are normal, Cape Foxes advice is spot on (as usual). Even if you taped one side then filled it with thickened epoxy (bog) then taped the other side it would be plenty strong enough (still stronger than the wood around it). The standing lug was chosen because it can be boomless (which I prefer), it spills the wind in a gust (great for South Est QLD, plenty gusty here) and it's simplicity (single sail and simple rigging means less lines and you're in the water and home quicker than anyone else). The easier it is to rig and de-rig the more you will want to use it. The mast it shorter too so it fits neatly in the boat (the original Sloop has a two piece mast to do this). You can still add a jib (see the smaller brother of the Argie 15) which I've done a few times with good success, especially in lighter winds. When the wind picks up over 12 knots, as it does in this area quite often, the mainsail on it's own will be plenty of power. Once it starts to get over 15 knots you'll need to think about reefing. Still, I notice other boats having to reef before I do. This design was drawn up by Todd Bradshaw (who I met on here). He's written books on sail design and is very good at what he does. Sorry for raving, can you see I like my Standing Lug?

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    To answer an earlier question, I too decided to install a lug sail. Mine is a balanced lug with an area of 105 sq.ft. and was also designed by Todd Bradshaw. In an email exchange with Dudley Dix he has said he is thinking of adding a lug sail option to his plans. Sorry I can't post a picture of my boat here since Photobucket kicked the bucket but you can see a pic on the Facebook site for the Traditional Small
    Craft Association.

    Your boat is looking good, I mean really good.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Cheers cape fox, Fudzwollop and Roy.

    Spent an hour or so tonight with Mrs Greenman filleting and glassing the bow and two seams. This has to be the worst part of building a boat by far. What a mess! In hindsight, I think I should have used 75mm wide tape as the 50mm looks a little on the narrow side. Fillets went on a bit too thick too. Live and learn. Though they don't look it in the picture, the edges are flattened down. I'm going to have to do some faring though.


  15. #50
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Most of that will be covered by side seats and watertight compartments etc so don't worry too much. As long as there are no sharp bits for you or your family to cut themselves on when feeling around inside compartments. This project is really moving along. Can't wait to go sailing and camping out with you in Moreton Bay. We can start aty Peel and sail up to Tangalooma Wrecks....What an adventure. I am planning to sail across from Bribie to Tangalooma in mine...wish me luck. I just read the book 'Tinkerbell' about the guy who sailed from America to England in a 12 foot boat fully loaded with supplies. So I reckon I should be able to sail across Moreton Bay in my Argie. I like the way you refer to your wife as Mrs Greenman. Bloody school teachers lol.
    Last edited by Fudzwollop; 08-08-2017 at 12:10 PM.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    The 50 mm wide FG tape is fine for most joints on this vessel. (The bow/inner stem joint is an exception -- I'd double the FG cloth with layer 1 being 100 mm wide and layer 2 being 76 mm.) Laying down masking tape either side of the fillet helps keep things tidier and your filleting work will get neater with experience. As Andrew explained, most joints are hidden in lockers, bulkheads, etc. anyway so they don't need to be perfect -- only functional. Filleting panels that meet at an oblique angle (such as the ones shown in your picture) requires a spreader with a big radius -- about 50 mm or a little more. Those joints don't need much of a fillet to ensure the tape is able to bend gently and remain structurally strong under load. Less than ideal fillet and tape work usually tidies up nicely with a polisher or random orbit sander and abrasive discs too.
    Last edited by capefox; 08-08-2017 at 01:23 PM.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Thanks guys. Very helpful. Fudzwollop...what size hoop did you use on your outside rub rails? Also, any chance some Argie builders could post a couple of pics of how you finished the front of your bow? No idea how the rubrails end etc. or how to do it.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenman View Post
    Thanks guys. Very helpful. Fudzwollop...what size hoop did you use on your outside rub rails? Also, any chance some Argie builders could post a couple of pics of how you finished the front of your bow? No idea how the rubrails end etc. or how to do it.
    40mm x 20mm (or it's actually 38mm x 18mm after dressing) or there abouts. Some people laminate thin strips to bring it up to that but I just used the above and bent it around.





  19. #54
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    I laminated my gunwales and extended them forward of the prow then trimmed to a curved snubnose with a jigsaw. My joinery isn't up to much else. Any gaps where i didn't mitre the strips at the prow i filled with poxy thickened with sawdust from the mahogany i was using. That way you get a filler that matches the wood colour (ish).

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    http://nicholascrabbe.wixsite.com/ar...Item-j0ijh8il2 i cant post a pic but the link shows the laminates extending forward.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Perfect, exactly what I was after. Appreciate the pics guys!!!

    I managed to get the other two seams filleted (second time was MUCH better than the first):


    Then the seat stringers were cut, glued and screwed:


    Then some more seat stringers were cut and glued in place:



    And finally, some ply was temporarily clamped in place:


    I do have a couple of questions if I may:

    1. Can anyone shed some light on the size/width etc of the timber in front of the transom that I think the rudder screws into...
    2. Am I supposed to (should I) seal the ends of the seat ply with unthickened epoxy before installing and filleting?
    3. Am I (did you) level out the side seat risers so that the tops were level and the ply sat on it properly (or do I just fill it with thickened epoxy when I am about to screw the seat tops?

    It's starting to look like a boat.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    I'd say half to three quarter inch hardwood of some kind would do for the transom stiffener. I put knees on mine as well to help transfer the forces from an outboard motor.
    It never hurts to seal the wood.
    I didn't level the seat stringers. I stuck the eith gorilla glue that foams into fill any voids. I think its a polyurethane glue.

    Very fast work there. You'll be afloat before you know it...

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    You can shave a bit off or just put generous amounts of thickened epoxy. I used a piece of 12 mm ply on the inside to strengthen the rudder attachment. Yep...seal everything is always good but really, even the thickened epoxy will soak in and seal it. Even if you never sealed anything, by the time this boat starts to rot you will have moved on and built another 10!!! It's ADDICTIVE>>>BEWARE!!!

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    I second that. Tempted by the jw navigator now....

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Thanks Nikky and Fudzwollop.

    I think I know what you mean...I have a little eye on the CLC PocketShip.

    The forward bulkhead thingy needed to go forward to accommodate the standing lug sail and boy was that a task to cut out. Ended up sawing the original bulkhead in half vertically and working on one half only. Then when finished, I cut a mirror opposite and clamped them together, made some adjustments, then used them to form a pattern to cut out the new bulkhead.

    Fudzwollop, does the placing here look similar to yours?






    I am also thinking of doubling up the transom with double 6mm ply as I will regularly take this out with a 15-18hp two stroke outboard. Can anyone see a problem with doing this?

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    I thought the transom looked flimsy so doubling is sensible. I made mine out of mahogony strip-plank.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    In case you haven't yet done so, make sure to put drain holes/tubes to drain the front cockpit to the main cockpit.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Thanks Nikky and Roy. As you will see below, I have listened to your advice (and appreciate it!).

    Since my last post, I upgraded the seat cleats from 20x20mm hoop pine to 42x20mm hardwood. I/we also glued the edges of all the risers and then glued the tops of the risers into position. The stern seat top is just placed in position at this stage:


    Note the holes for the drain, Roy!





    The seat cleat was also installed across the transom:


    And the transom was thickened to 12mm (1/2 inch) ply. Lots of glue in there and clamped tight. Should stiffen it right up.


    Now I have to wait for the glue to dry to progress any further.

    Some questions if I may:

    1. The beam of the boat is just 1770mm wide (60mm less than what I think it is supposed to be). The nudge rail will add another 40mm but may/will draw the sides in also. Hope this dimension is all ok at this stage??
    2. Can I fibreglass the bottom AFTER I install the nudge rail around the top? I assume that if so, I just run the fibreglass up to the nudge rail?
    3. I am also putting timber on the back of the transom for the outboard as well as the rudder (19mm thick). The timber will go across the transom as well as down the centre of the transom (to the bottom). Do I apply the timber before or after I fibreglass the transom?
    4. After I fill all holes in the hull with thickened epoxy, sand the hull and round the edges, I will be applying fibreglass tape to these edges (chines). How many coats of epoxy do I apply to the tape? Can I get away with one if the cloth is completely soaked? If more are required, do I need to apply them before the first coat has completely hardened? If I apply additional coats the following day, do I have to sand the original coat?
    5. In regard to rounding the bow, how do I do this? How sharp? I assume about a pencil thickness so that the fibreglass can go around it??
    6. How much harder is it for a newbie to make a centreboard, over a daggerboard? Are there any good videos/articles on the web that explain the process?


    Thanks heaps guys for all your advice!
    Last edited by Greenman; 08-16-2017 at 04:02 PM.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Looks like I put the drainage hole in the wrong spot too, as that is where the daggerboard goes...

    In addition to the above questions, where would you put drainage holes? At the bottom chines?

    Any help on any of the questions is very much appreciated.

  30. #65
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    Default

    A bit off center. Here is mine

    Sent fra min GT-N7100 via Tapatalk

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    I put a drain hole at each chine. I connected the two cockpits with half of a tube made using the cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels reinforced inside and out with glass cloth and epoxy. Cheap and effective.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Thank you Fredostli and Roy!

    With the bow, where the side panels join there is a deep V between the two panels. Do I fill this with thickened epoxy before sanding the hull or after? Can I add the nudge rail before fibreglassing the hull?

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    I put my rub rail on before glassing the hull. Left a bit of a rough join underneath but i figure that's only a problem if the boat is capsized or im in the water. Hopefully neither will happen often.

    No reason you couldnt do a swinging centre board. I did bit still have to finish the board itself. Im using a dagger board temporarily at the moment. The hardest part is figuring out how to keep the pivot pin water tight.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Fill the bow before sanding i say....

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Argie 15 Build for sailing and fishing

    Cheers Nikky.

    Rub rail is now on. Glued and screwed. Screws will come out tomorrow. Most of the bulkheads are filleted and fibreglassed now too:




    With the bow riser moved forward, there is no room for 300mm side seats at the bow end of the front compartment (nowhere for feet to go either, even by reducing the width of them a little). I only have about 500mm across at the bow end. Have to get creative here. I don't really want just a raised deck. Would love a large waterproof latch, but they all appear so small. Using this area to house all the gear if possible would counter the weight of the small outboard when in use. Decisions, decisions...

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