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Thread: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    I have seen medium sized Midwestern American cities go to community policing training and implementation and lose their confrontation trend line almost immediately, even if deep seated bias and "old thinking" remained in mid level leadership.

    The Tulsa "hands up" shooting is an anomaly where the community leadership mobilized very quickly to address the death and the officer was named and not protected in her actions by her department. I attribute this to intergenerational memory of how bad things can get if they are not stopped. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot this History was censored from schools I attended in late 60 and early 70s.

    For those of you contemplating avoiding travel in the USA due to police violence, check the statistics regarding the violence we create in nations having resources our corporate masters covet but don't want to pay for in fair trade...
    "Never get out of the boat." Apocalypse (Then)

  2. #142
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  3. #143
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Please explain the question
    .
    easy enough... there is much complaining of gun show loopholes which any parking lot sale is the same as...d our left doesn't want this to be disconnected from legal gun shows... I'm just reminding folks of their own words

    there will now be complaints that it doesn't count because the words aren't exactly the same
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  4. #144
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    easy enough... there is much complaining of gun show loopholes which any parking lot sale is the same as...d our left doesn't want this to be disconnected from legal gun shows... I'm just reminding folks of their own words

    there will now be complaints that it doesn't count because the words aren't exactly the same
    English would be nice!

  5. #145
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Remember what I said about lawyers?
    Noor's lawyer is alluding to 'possible drug taking' by the victim. A prescription sleeping pill called Ambien?

    Here I have heard talk about travellers having to take into account the risks, the 'lottery' effect of gun culture when visiting the US and the need to adapt normal behaviour.

  6. #146
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    English would be nice!
    Seconded.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  7. #147
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Quote Originally Posted by Landrith View Post
    I have seen medium sized Midwestern American cities go to community policing training and implementation and lose their confrontation trend line almost immediately, even if deep seated bias and "old thinking" remained in mid level leadership.

    The Tulsa "hands up" shooting is an anomaly where the community leadership mobilized very quickly to address the death and the officer was named and not protected in her actions by her department. I attribute this to intergenerational memory of how bad things can get if they are not stopped. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot this History was censored from schools I attended in late 60 and early 70s.

    For those of you contemplating avoiding travel in the USA due to police violence, check the statistics regarding the violence we create in nations having resources our corporate masters covet but don't want to pay for in fair trade...
    US foreign policy is pretty bad and getting worse but I think it would be ridiculous to avoid travel to the US because of gun culture. Modifying behaviour in the context of a country obsessed with and saturated with guns though, that's just sensible.

    I just don't understand how decent Americans can stand it.

    Rick

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post

    It's based on the fact that the majority of Americans continue to elect ratbag governments at all levels,

    Rick
    Fact????

    I live in a small town. I know the mayor and the city council members, I know school board members, I know local police officers, I know community members who participate in all sorts of community and charitable functions, all sorts of ballot issues.

    An example of local policing: there were some homeless folks in a broken down RV camper on a road into town a few days ago. They were noticed. They had some destination in mind, but no money for repairs. One of the local police officers rolled up his sleeves, dug into the engine and got it running. They went happily on their way. Last year one of the police officers delivered a baby to a woman who pulled over on the side of the road in labor.

    You have no idea of how successful so many local communities in the U.S. are.

  9. #149
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Minneapolis police chief resigns in wake of fatal shooting

    Mayor Betsy Hodges said she asked Harteau to resign.

    "I've lost confidence in the chief's ability to lead us further and from the many conversations I've had with people around our city, especially this week, it is clear that she has lost the confidence of the people of Minneapolis as well," Hodges said in a statement.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/21/us/min...gns/index.html

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Fact????

    I live in a small town. I know the mayor and the city council members, I know school board members, I know local police officers, I know community members who participate in all sorts of community and charitable functions, all sorts of ballot issues.

    An example of local policing: there were some homeless folks in a broken down RV camper on a road into town a few days ago. They were noticed. They had some destination in mind, but no money for repairs. One of the local police officers rolled up his sleeves, dug into the engine and got it running. They went happily on their way. Last year one of the police officers delivered a baby to a woman who pulled over on the side of the road in labor.

    You have no idea of how successful so many local communities in the U.S. are.
    Small town police helping their community is commonplace here and in very many parts of the world - all good. But the US has third-world levels of violence, outrageous levels of poverty and working poverty and crap health care. You have the wealth to be rid of all these things but your lousy governments and apathetic communities allow them to continue. Americans, generally, need to get out more. A lot more.

    Rick

  11. #151
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Anyway, enough said by me on this. Those of you who think the way it is is all good certainly don't want to hear criticism from those of us who shake their heads in amazement that you don't want to change it. My own country is heading the same way as we continue to elect idiots from a pool of idiots. We do have better gun laws and health care than you do and much safer communities, even with our snakes and sharks. But we have irresponsible politicians intent on selling our soul to the devil so all that may well change soon. I hope not.

    Rick

  12. #152
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    .. Those of you who think the way it is is all good certainly don't want to hear criticism from those of us who shake their heads in amazement that you don't want to change it.

    Rick
    Your implication is that I, and others, think that it's ALL good. In fact we are aware of the problems. That fact is we live and work in communities that adddress quality of life issues, and we participate in community to avoid the issues of crime and poor government management. The Somali police officer was clearly in the wrong and his action is unforgiveable, and we wonder how he wound up on the police force. That YOU write us all off is of little concern really, we'll do what we can.

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    No, that's ridiculous to suggest that. I think it's amazing that so many Americans elect stupid politicians and accept the mad gun culture. I'm very aware that a huge number of Americans hate your gun obsession and your government and would very much like it to change. I do think that Americans generally are far too tolerant of gun ownership levels, the prominence of guns and violence and a very corrupt political scene. It really does you no credit to refer to the police officer as a Somali. I understand that he, presumably like you, is a US citizen. I doubt from your views that you are native American?

    Rick

  14. #154
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    No, that's ridiculous to suggest that. I think it's amazing that so many Americans elect stupid politicians and accept the mad gun culture. I'm very aware that a huge number of Americans hate your gun obsession and your government and would very much like it to change. I do think that Americans generally are far too tolerant of gun ownership levels, the prominence of guns and violence and a very corrupt political scene. It really does you no credit to refer to the police officer as a Somali. I understand that he, presumably like you, is a US citizen. I doubt from your views that you are native American?

    Rick
    I think I've made reasonable responses to some of your blanket criticism of the U.S. I referred to the Somali police office because his own community were proud of his gaining a position on the police force and wanted his achievement known. They were proud of the fact that his position signalled a first step in what they thought was integration into the community. All aspects of the tragic incident will be investigated, including the man's background, including ethnicity. "Melting pot" is a term in very common usage in the U.S., and people's ethnicity is commonly referred to, even by those who have assimilated over many generations.

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    The fact of him being Somali is irrelevant. The relevant facts are that he and his partner were very poorly trained and that US police expect perpetrators to be armed, as it's so common. My criticisms are not `blanket'.

    Rick

  16. #156
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    Minneapolis police chief resigns in wake of fatal shooting

    Mayor Betsy Hodges said she asked Harteau to resign.

    "I've lost confidence in the chief's ability to lead us further — and from the many conversations I've had with people around our city, especially this week, it is clear that she has lost the confidence of the people of Minneapolis as well," Hodges said in a statement.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/21/us/min...gns/index.html
    Scapegoat? Presumingly the Mayor is at the top of the local tree?Or is it the Legislature or the Governor?

  17. #157
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    City police are a local matter. The relatively new mayor and the police chief (now ex-chief) vehemently loathe each other, I'm told; can barely stand to be in the same room. This may have been just the excuse she needed to ask Ms. Harteau to resign. It's unfortunate, I think; my impression was that the chief was doing a pretty good job, making a fair amount of progress improving things, and that more chaos is not what they need.. But I haven't paid a lot of attention, honestly, and I could be wrong.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Fact????

    I live in a small town. I know the mayor and the city council members, I know school board members, I know local police officers, I know community members who participate in all sorts of community and charitable functions, all sorts of ballot issues.

    An example of local policing: there were some homeless folks in a broken down RV camper on a road into town a few days ago. They were noticed. They had some destination in mind, but no money for repairs. One of the local police officers rolled up his sleeves, dug into the engine and got it running. They went happily on their way. Last year one of the police officers delivered a baby to a woman who pulled over on the side of the road in labor.

    You have no idea of how successful so many local communities in the U.S. are.
    it's true we tend to make blanket statements about one another.... hmmm
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Don't call 911 in Minnesota,



    Mock-official signs were posted around the city over the weekend, but quickly were taken down

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