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Thread: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    In the history of this nation, never has a single Nazi, Imperial Japanese, Fascist, Communist, NVA, VC or terrorist of any of several factions ever been able to deny any American the most basic of democratic rights - the vote. That crime lies at the feet or republicans. One could make a case that we've been killing the wrong people in the defense of Democracy all these decades.
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

  2. #37
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Yes, because
    1. The voter registration rolls are a mess.
    People registering multiple times.
    People not being removed when the die or move out of the state.
    2. No voter ID required in many states.
    3. No checking to see if a voter who wants to vote on election day has not already voted via mail.
    4. No cross checking of voted from different states.
    If you accept that premise, I expect you to provide the evidence of the occurrence on which you base your acceptance.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  3. #38
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Jeebus, Graham, not even NOISEY chimes in on this in agreement with you.

    Really, just who do you think you're foolin?
    Frayed Knot Arts: Fancywork and Rope Jewelry
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  4. #39
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    It must be tiresome, having that cold hand up yer bum.

    If you welcome devils to your house, then you must feed them Afghan proverb.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    We all know that there is voter fraud.
    The only question is how large and wide spread is the problem.

    I will make a prediction that as the commission finds voter fraud the Dems will start to admit the problem exists but argue that it is only a small problem.

    Now many illegal votes are acceptable?

  6. #41
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post

    Now many illegal votes are acceptable?
    None, which is goddamned close to the number they will find.
    Your buddy said there were 5 million.
    Study Peace

  7. #42
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    We all know that there is voter fraud.
    The only question is how large and wide spread is the problem.
    We all know that it is neither large, nor widespread.... it's been STUDIED endlessly, fer chrissakes!

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Now many illegal votes are acceptable?
    How many legitimate voters are you willing to disenfranchise, in order to prevent a single illegal vote?

    100?

    1,000?

    10,000?
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
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  8. #43
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    We all know that it is neither large, nor widespread.... it's been STUDIED endlessly, fer chrissakes!



    How many legitimate voters are you willing to disenfranchise, in order to prevent a single illegal vote?

    100?

    1,000?

    10,000?
    There have to be more than 5 million so Trump can win the popular vote.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Since we're making predictions for the Commission's work and findings, here are mine:
    1. The type of voter fraud alleged by Trump (2M-3M illegally cast ballots by people legally ineligible to vote) is infinitesimally small. I predict less than forty (40) actual documented cases will be found even of attempts of this kind of fraud, and that at best ten (10) will have actually resulted in fraudulent ballots being cast and counted.
    2. The presence of a type of voter fraud already acknowledged by many (registration of the same person in more than one state) will indeed be affirmed - IIRC, Bannon fits this category. Some states may amend information sharing practices with other states to reduce the incidence, while others will not - and as it's Constitutionally a state power, the feds will be told to pound sand. A retrospective analysis will find that less than 40 individuals actually voted in more than one state in the 2016 Presidential Election, most of whom are already under legal investigation or prosecution.
    3. Electoral rolls will, as expected, be found to include the names of many people who have died. An analysis will show that fewer than 40 attempts were made to have votes cast in the names of these deceased people, and most of those who did so attempt are already under legal investigation or prosecution.
    4. Inquiry into the types of electoral fraud already proven to occur in court rulings (e.g. voter suppression), or otherwise already established through decades of academic study (e.g. various forms of gerrymandering) will not be pursued by the Commission at all.
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Were I a governor I tell him it's publically available, get it your EFFING self.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  11. #46
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Most states are giving the data to the WH panel.

    Title: States bristled but at least 30 will give personal voter data to Trump
    Despite criticism from most states about the Trump administration’s request for voters’ personal information, half have said they will deliver some or all of that data to the White House election commission.
    And that number could grow, President Donald Trump said on Wednesday, with more than 30 states turning over some information, including names, addresses and birth dates, to the group being run by Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach.
    Link: http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article162544503.html

  12. #47
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  13. #48
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    It makes sense the data requested is public data.

    Title: Judge clears way for Trump commission to collect voter data
    A federal judge has cleared the way for President Donald Trump's commission on election fraud to resume collecting detailed voter information from the states.
    The commission asked states last month to provide publicly available data including names, birth dates and partial Social Security numbers, but it later told them to hold off until a judge ruled on a lawsuit filed by the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington.
    In a ruling Monday, the judge denied the advocacy group's request to block the data collection. Similar lawsuits are pending in Texas, Florida and New Hampshire.
    Link: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...-data-48821724

  14. #49
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Genglandoh, why don't you answer the only important question in this entire voter controversy:

    In order to prevent fraudulent votes, it is inevitable that some legitimate voters will be denied their right to vote.

    So, tell us all: how many legitimate voters are you willing to disenfranchise, in order to prevent one illegal vote?

    100?

    1,000?

    10,000?
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  15. #50
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Genglandoh, why don't you answer the only important question in this entire voter controversy:

    In order to prevent fraudulent votes, it is inevitable that some legitimate voters will be denied their right to vote.

    So, tell us all: how many legitimate voters are you willing to disenfranchise, in order to prevent one illegal vote?

    100?

    1,000?

    10,000?
    I do not think anyone will be denied the right to vote.
    All they have to do is get an ID, register to vote and then vote on election day.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Yes, because
    1. The voter registration rolls are a mess.
    People registering multiple times.
    People not being removed when the die or move out of the state.
    2. No voter ID required in many states.
    3. No checking to see if a voter who wants to vote on election day has not already voted via mail.
    4. No cross checking of voted from different states.
    Still waiting for an answer to my question, posted earlier:

    If you accept that premise, I expect you to provide the evidence of the occurrence on which you base your acceptance.

    This isn't an answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    We all know that there is voter fraud.
    The only question is how large and wide spread is the problem.

    I will make a prediction that as the commission finds voter fraud the Dems will start to admit the problem exists but argue that it is only a small problem.

    Now many illegal votes are acceptable?
    And no, we don't know that there is voter fraud - we're still waiting for you to provide some, nay - any, evidence of voter fraud.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  17. #52
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    I do not think anyone will be denied the right to vote.
    Yeah, sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    All they have to do is get an ID, register to vote and then vote on election day.
    Although you may think so, the American people are not quite THAT stupid. We KNOW what voter ID is all about, and it's NOT about fraudulent voting.

    If it were, it could be easily demonstrated. It's been studied countless times... endlessly... and the result of the studies are uniformly the same:

    Voter ID fraud is EXCEPTIONALLY rare... even in cases where people do NOT have to show any form of ID at the polling place.

    So, your contention that no one will be denied the right to vote is absolute false... utter bullsh|t... AND WE ALL KNOW IT.

    We KNOW what the point of voter ID is: to disenfranchise as many Democratic voters as possible.



    But the REAL issue is one of morality..... how does your conscience, and any sense of integrity and ethics you may or may not have, rationalize this blatant attempt to rig the vote? Do you feel GOOD about it?
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
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  18. #53
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Geng won't read the following... because it contains FACTS!

    Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens
    • The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue, The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.”
    • A study published by a Columbia University political scientist tracked incidence rates for voter fraud for two years, and found that the rare fraud that was reported generally could be traced to “false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error.”
    • A 2017 analysis published in The Washington Post concluded that there is no evidence to support Trump’s claim that Massachusetts residents were bused into New Hampshire to vote.
    • A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.
    • Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.
    • A review of the 2016 election found four documented cases of voter fraud.
    • Research into the 2016 election found no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
    • A 2016 working paper concluded that the upper limit on double voting in the 2012 election was 0.02%. The paper noted that the incident rate was likely much lower, given audits conducted by the researchers showed that “many, if not all, of these apparent double votes could be a result of measurement error.”
    • A 2014 paper concluded that “the likely percent of non-citizen voters in recent US elections is 0.”
    • A 2014 nationwide study found “no evidence of widespread impersonation fraud” in the 2012 election.
    • A 2014 study that examined impersonation fraud both at the polls and by mail ballot found zero instances in the jurisdictions studied.
    • A 2014 study by the non-partisan Government Accountability Office, which reflected a literature review of the existing research on voter fraud, noted that the studies consistently found “few instances of in-person voter fraud.”
    • While writing a 2012 book, a researcher went back 30 years to try to find an example of voter impersonation fraud determining the outcome of an election, but was unable to find even one.
    • A 2012 study exhaustively pulled records from every state for all alleged election fraud, and found the overall fraud rate to be “infinitesimal” and impersonation fraud by voters at the polls to be the rarest fraud of all: only 10 cases alleged in 12 years. The same studyfound only 56 alleged cases of non-citizen voting, in 12 years.
    • A 2012 assessment of Georgia’s 2006 election found “no evidence that election fraud was committed under the auspices of deceased registrants.”
    • A 2011 study by the Republican National Lawyers Association found that, between 2000 and 2010, 21 states had 1 or 0 convictions for voter fraud or other kinds of voting irregularities.
    • A 2010 book cataloguing reported incidents of voter fraud concluded that nearly all allegations turned out to be clerical errors or mistakes, not fraud.
    • A 2009 analysis examined 12 states and found that fraud by voters was “very rare,” and also concluded that many of the cases that garnered media attention were ultimately unsubstantiated upon further review.
    • Additional research on noncitizen voting can be found here: http://www.brennancenter.org/analysi...nishingly-rare.
    • Additional resources can be found here: https://www.brennancenter.org/analys...is-and-reports.

    Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent

    • The Fifth Circuit, in an opinion finding that Texas’s strict photo ID law is racially discriminatory, noted that there were “only two convictions for in-person voter impersonation fraud out of 20 million votes cast in the decade” before Texas passed its law.
    • In its opinion striking down North Carolina’s omnibus restrictive election law —which included a voter ID requirement — as purposefully racially discriminatory, the Fourth Circuit noted that the state “failed to identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing in-person voter fraud in North Carolina.”
    • A federal trial court in Wisconsin reviewing that state’s strict photo ID law found “that impersonation fraud — the type of fraud that voter ID is designed to prevent — is extremely rare” and “a truly isolated phenomenon that has not posed a significant threat to the integrity of Wisconsin’s elections.”
    • Even the Supreme Court, in its opinion in Crawford upholding Indiana’s voter ID law, noted that the record in the case “contains no evidence of any [in-person voter impersonation] fraud actually occurring in Indiana at any time in its history.” Two of the jurists who weighed in on that case at the time — Republican-appointed former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens and conservative appellate court Judge Richard Posner — have since announced they regret their votes in favor of the law, with Judge Posnernoting that strict photo ID laws are “now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than of fraud prevention.”
    cont'd
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  19. #54
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    cont'd

    Government Investigations Agree: Voter Fraud Is Rare

    • Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a longtime proponent of voter suppression efforts, argued before state lawmakers that his office needed special power to prosecute voter fraud, because he knew of 100 such cases in his state. After being granted these powers, he has brought six such cases, of which only four have been successful. The secretary has also testified about his review of 84 million votes cast in 22 states, which yielded 14 instances of fraud referred for prosecution, which amounts to a 0.00000017 percent fraud rate.
    • Texas lawmakers purported to pass its strict photo ID law to protect against voter fraud. Yet the chief law enforcement official in the state responsible for such prosecutions knew of only one conviction and one guilty plea that involved in-person voter fraud in all Texas elections from 2002 through 2014.
    • A specialized United States Department of Justice unit formed with the goal of finding instances of federal election fraud examined the 2002 and 2004 federal elections, and were able to prove that 0.00000013 percent of ballots cast were fraudulent. There was no evidence that any of these incidents involved in-person impersonation fraud. Over a five year period, they found “no concerted effort to tilt the election.”
    • An investigation in Colorado, in which the Secretary of State alleged 100 cases of voter fraud, yielded one conviction.
    • In Maine, an investigation into 200 college students revealed no evidence of fraud. Shortly thereafter, an Elections Commission appointed by a Republican secretary of state found “there is little or no history in Maine of voter impersonation or identification fraud.”
    • In Florida, a criminal investigation into nine individuals who allegedly committed absentee ballot fraud led to all criminal charges being dismissed against all voters.
    • In 2012, Florida Governor Rick Scott initiated an effort to remove non-citizen registrants from the state’s rolls. The state’s list of 182,000 alleged non-citizen registrants quickly dwindled to 198. Even this amended list contained many false positives, such as a WWII veteran born in Brooklyn. In the end, only 85 non-citizen registrants were identified and only one was convicted of fraud, out of a total of 12 million registered voters.
    • In Iowa, a multi-year investigation into fraud led to just 27 prosecutions out of 1.6 million ballots cast. In 2014 the state issued a report on the investigation citing only six prosecutions.
    • In Wisconsin, a task force charged 20 individuals with election crimes. The majority charged were individuals with prior criminal convictions, who are often caught up by confusing laws regarding restoration of their voting rights.

    The verdict is in from every corner that voter fraud is sufficiently rare that it simply could not and does not happen at the rate even approaching that which would be required to “rig” an election. Electoral integrity is key to our democracy, and politicians who genuinely care about protecting our elections should focus not on phantom fraud concerns, but on those abuses that actually threaten election security.
    As historians and election experts have catalogued, there is a long history in this country of racially suppressive voting measures — including poll taxes and all-white primaries — put in place under the guise of stopping voter fraud that wasn’t actually occurring in the first place. The surest way toward voting that is truly free, fair, and accessible is to know the facts in the face of such rhetoric.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  20. #55
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Geng doesn't care about facts, They disrupt his line of thinking.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: White House Panel Asks States For Publicly available Voter Data.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    We all know that there is voter fraud.
    No, we DON'T all know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    The only question is how large and wide spread is the problem.
    See posts #53 and #54, and then tell us how big the problem is.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







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